Bonzo cube (360, unpowered, 2-4 player)

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Hello all!

I've been stalking for a little while and very much enjoying the conversations that have been going on here. Now that I've managed to get my list uploaded onto cube tutor I figured it was time to share and get more involved.

I think it's quite difficult to properly analyse and discuss a cube without understanding the context it's played in and what constraints there are around it's design, so I've put together the following to hopefully explain where I'm coming from.

Context and design principles

Number of players?: mostly 2, occasionally 3 or 4.

How drafted?: winston or grid draft with 2. Rochester or regular draft with 3 or 4.

Proxies?: Nope, for me proxies aren't 'real'. I have no problem with others who do, but it's not for me. This means that there are some budgetary considerations when choosing cards, but I don't really consider this to be a budget cube per se. I guess in time I might get around to getting hold of a tarmogoyf or picking up the ABU duals, but it's more of a longer term proposition.

Singleton: one of the things that first attracted me to cube was the singleton approach. I love limited formats generally and 100 card singleton was one of my favourite formats on MTGO. I have a soft rule on no functional reprints just to add to this, but this is a much looser principle.

Interaction killers: protection and hexproof/shroud. When you have taken the time to draft two players and play out a game, there is nothing worse than miridin crusader or sword of fire and ice just ruining the game for you. If you're going to go on and play against 3 or 4 other opponents afterwards your deck can still have some game against them, but when it's just the one opponent with the card that just wrecks you time and time again, was it worth the investment in time of drafting. You will notice a few exceptions in my list regarding this, which are all on my watch list: soltari trooper - black perhaps more than other colours with its edict effects can handle this more than most. Lavinia of the Tenth - more being used for its detain ability and the fact that it costs five reduces the importance of its pro: red ability. Thrun - put in as an answer to some heavy removal decks, but is possibly the card I'm most concerned about, especially after the new legend rules come into effect.

Fun killers: some cards are just disheartening to play against and so aren't included for similar reasons to the '2 player' effect listed under interaction killers. There is some overlap here with cards that are too powerful and are also excluded but its not necessarily the same. Examples of cards on this list: bribery, plow under, stunted growth, jitte, JTMS. I would rather have games that had a degree of interactivity and can battle back and forth. Fast mana is excluded on this basis too.

Coloured mana: even though I prefer grid drafting, my cubing partner does enjoy winston drafting due to the hidden information element. This means the cube needs to be built with an eye to the constraints of winston. When you are seeing less cards generally in a winston draft your card choices during a draft become more significant and there is a danger that you just take cards in your colours in order to have enough cards to populate your deck. In order to help try to increase the number of choices players can make during the draft I've made a conscious effort to try to reduce the number of coloured mana costs, especially in the lower mana curve and increase the number of hybrids. Ideally I would like to slightly increase the number of colourless cards as well, but not sure i have enough of a suitable pool to do so.

Land choices: initially I had 3 dual lands per guild, but came up against the situation of these being 'wasted' or pointless during winston draft when they weren't in your colours. I came to the realisation that the shard lands were effectively duals for 3 and so would have a bigger audience and that vivids were extensions of this. I am aware of the arguments that this just leads to multicolour good stuff decks and makes aggro worse but I think it works well within the design constraints outlined above. I think it makes for a slightly slower environment, which is again reflected in some of the card selections. It's also led me to have a fair few more off colour flashback, kicker and split cards to add further decisions to the drafting and deck building design process.

I'm sure there are probably more design principles that i have forgotten, but will come out during discussion. I'm generally pretty pleased with the cube and would love to hear your thoughts on it. Check it out here: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/276

Edit: updated newer list: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/10086


AB

 

[Jason Waddell]

Hi Alfonzo, this sounds really good. I think you touched on some great points here, mainly the difference between two-player drafting and full table drafting. Two player decks are always slower, so I don't see an issue with including lands like Vivids and Shard lands that there will actually be a demand for. Indeed, many guild lands (and gold cards) will be unwanted when there are only a couple people at the table.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Carionette is a real blast from the past for me, how is that card playing out? It seems like a great card to throw into an Intuition pile.

Recurring Nightmare seems overpushed for your power level? Is it game dominating? Have you considered Strands of Night?

I really should get a 5th edition Counterspell.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Thanks for necroing my thread

Carrionette is a relatively new add that I haven't had a chance to play yet, so not sure how it will play out, but I enjoyed it back in the old days too. I reread Jason's the poison principle recently (which is such a fantastic piece) and I do have to wonder how many decks are going to want it. I just got a bit sick of black aggro. I really like the black aggro one drops but the rest of the support makes me feel a bit urgh, so I got rid of it. It let me focus on black as a midrange and control cover so I could add weird two drops like carrionette and nightscape familiar. Will let you know how I get on.

The 'problem' with this is that it only leaves me with red and white as the aggro colours with a bit of support from the other colours. In a low player count cube I'm unsure how much of a problem that is but I will see.

Re recurring nightmare, I have been making a conscious effort to lower the power level of the cube. When you only have a couple of players you don't want to spend all your time drafting only to have unbalanced games that end quickly, which is why the protection swords aren't here. Nightmare is on my watch list but it suffers from being one of my favourite cards so we shall see how it goes. Balance is also on the watch list and I'm actively thinking of removing skullclamp.

(Slight rant)
I don't have anything against the people who want to maximise the power level of their cube but the fact it's become the predominant cube design philosophy makes you (me) sometimes feel like you're doing it wrong (which is why this site is so refreshing). I wish I'd never read about these 'perfectly' optimised cubes so I could explore different approaches without the guilt. I know that it's all rubbish and I can do what I like with my cube but I feel like I'm trying to deprogramme myself out of a cult. I am getting there though, I'm beginning to not care and put in cards that I want to that may not be optimal but are enjoyable which is where I want to go.
(/slight rant)

Strands of night isn't too bad now that I look at it again but if I dropped nightmare then I think I might be okay between diabolic servitude and oversold cemetry.

At the moment I'm thinking about trying to reduce the amount of removal and looking to replace them which either combat tricks or 'interesting' effects. I think you're getting there along the right lines with your heroic enablers but there are a couple of things that Jason's said that have given me pause. In his recent channel fireball article re the modern tribal flames deck he talks about might of alara as a singleton and then just wished it was more removal so you could deal damage with the attacker. The second was perhaps a throwaway comment re his eldrazi cube in that players enjoyed it but would just prefer to play powerful spells. I'm sure I will get there, cube is about the journey though, not the destination

I'm also working on a much lower power cube with a principle on maximum decisions and choices hopefully leading to a much more skilful environment with cards that you don't see much of. It's on cubetutor at the moment but I'll do a write up for this forum.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Oversold cemetery has been awful for me. I don't run the fastest cube ever, but it is fast enough so that this card has been pretty much a dead draw.

I was having the same crisis of faith when revamping my black section. The spots were extremely limited and it was difficult justifying cards like carnophage and vampire lacerator. In the end, I kept a very minimal package of black aggro stuff so that the "real" aggro colors could utilize them and create different sub-flavors of aggro decks. I'm not sure it was the right choice yet. I did get to cut Sarcomancy which made me feel good because that card just plain sucks. I did feel a weird sense of guilt when I cut Nether Void, which is extra weird because I didn't feel the same guilt when I cut Tarmogoyf, Jace the Mindsculptor and ABU duals. I guess in those cases I actually disliked the cards rather then them just not fitting anymore.

The Heroic enablers has been a messy journey so far. Part of me thinks it just needs to be scrapped and included in a cube set at a whole different of parameters, with less "super awesome" creatures so that removal isn't as important with lots of voltroning, but overall the experiment has been reasonably successful. I think its less important to run less removal then it is to make your removal more conscientious of the environment you are creating. That is you need to think 1) what needs to be removed, 2) how much should it cost, 3) how narrow should it be and 4) does it need to be instant? Running flame slash instead of lightning bolt is huge for my cube, because it lets you get griffin guide down on your 2 drop safely AND gives red a good out against hero of bladehold and doesn't require jamming home 4 invisible stalkers and a true-name nemesis. Removal is one of the keys to interactive gameplay so you need to carefully consider how to to cut it.

Good luck!

 

[FlowerSunRain]

What's the status of Kjeldoran Dead? That is card that, once upon a time, I always wanted to be awesome but absolutely never was. It seems like a decent 1 shot 1 mana sac outlet (comparable to the more recent Bone Splinters), but being sorcery speed (also like bone splinters) its tough to get much added value out of it and the baseline value isn't really very impressive. It seems just by looking at it, that you'd be better served with another vampire for Kalastria Highborn, but if they are providing some gameplay I want to here about it, because I would love to jam in that card.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

It's new in for testing, so nothing yet to report I'm afraid. I don't think it's going to do much as its not really effective until at least turn three when you have something you want to sac. However, I'm trying to push more sac things and have quite a lot of tokens so we shall see.

Also new in for testing are

faerie imposter
Leonin bola
Demonmail hauberk
Thran quarry
Tendo ice bridge
Kher keep

Need to add executioners capsule as well.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Its pretty good if you have a young wolf , depleted javelineer or doomed traveler you want to eat, or a 2 mana etb creature (which there aren't many of). Without the sac clause it would seem to come in as a low end 2B mana card or very strong BB, I'm not sure killing something is worth the mana savings.

If you gave it flash, though, it'd be a total beating and a really fun direction to take the idea if the written version proves insufficient and you don't mind taking sharpy to card cardboard.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

Hi Alfonzo!

When we cubed last we found Attrition to be pretty unfun in my removal light environment, so it needs a replacement. How is Grave Pact for you? It seems to both be more restrictive (intense cost, requires an outlet), more consistent (can kill black creatures) and has more counter play (the victim chooses who dies which opens options like token makers), but it can 2 for 1 people (trade, then sac another creature) so it might be just as bad. How has it played in your cube?

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

The casting cost requires some setup which i like and you then need to have a sac enabler usually. People can play around it without the sac outlet which is good too. It rewards commitment to the deck and feels like you have achieved something rather than attrition which is as you say too unfun. I hhavent swapped with dictate of erebos yet as cant make my mind up. Give gravepact a try, think you might like it. Also weaker against token generaters which is good, you have to fight your way through. Also another mortician beetle enabler.

Have overhauled my cube. Will update soon, but still have gravepact in my list.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I've spent the last few weeks overhauling my cube from scratch, I think sometimes you go too far down some weird design routes and lose focus on what you're trying to do. I wanted to get this down here, before people thought that I'd just been copying Laz

My cube has always been played by few players but predominantly it's mostly just two players so I built with that in mind. As always, it's been heavily influenced the conversations that happen on these boards, so my thanks to all.

In regards to some of the principles, I may have covered some in my earlier posts, but I will go over some of them again:

Self serving: In the redesign, I wanted to put in cards that I generally liked, thought were interesting or simply wanted to play with. Sometimes you can get caught up in the group think (see power cubing) and end up building with what you think *should* be in there. It's pretty liberating (and difficult) to not just include all the good cards. That's not to say that there are bad cards per se, though I'm sure some of you will disagree, but it gives you more flexibility and freedom if you don't have to include staples/must includes/whatever.

Mana: I think I've been quite heavily influenced by a post I read when somebody was moaning about when they were playing Winston draft but didn't see any mana fixing in their colours but their opponent did. With the mana, I've tried to include as many lands that you might want to draft, ie. vivids, lots of 5 colour lands. This might lead to decks of multiple colours, but I'm not sure I really care.

Each guild has two of a cycle - the shocklands, because they're good, have decision making and are accessible, and the full cycle of the theros temples. I know usual thinking is that aggro doesn't want these, but I wanted to have them all because I think again, they have interesting decisions around them and off colour decks wouldn't necessarily be ashamed to draft and play them for the scry ability. Aggro has access to a fair few other lands that can give them access to on colour untapped lands, so I don't feel too bad, but this also leads me on to:

Making a game of it: If there's only two of you drafting, you want to ensure that the time spend actually drafting and building the decks leads to some satisfying games. If you're playing in an 8 man pod and you get screwed a couple of times then you can move on to the next guy and see how you get on. When it's just the two you, you look for a game of decent length with a bit of back and forth. I've tried to build in some ways that give players some early game (a fair few cheap card drawers, cantrips, manipulation and scrying) and allow them to develop their mana without too many overwhelming I win cards (no upheaval, geddon, overrun). There are a fair number of cheap fat butts as well to drag things out.

Fewer planeswalkers: This hasn't been too deliberate, I've just taken out some of the ones which were fairly raw power and tried to keep some of the more interesting ones. I'm sure some will come back in and it will ebb and flow.

Blue: My main partner has a real downer on blue, so I've tried to make it less about control and tried to do a bit more interesting, attacking type things.

No fast mana or cheating: this ties into the making a game of it principle above and also covers no cheap reanimation. It means I don't get to include interesting cards like tinder wall, but I don't want to be facing down a turn two polly or deadbridge goliath.

While I'm waiting for my new cards to arrive and give it a spin, a lot of this is just theorycrafting, so feel free to tell me what you think and where I might be going wrong. Everybody loves to hear other's opinions on their cube. A few questions for your consideration:

Do I have enough mana fixing? Laz has slightly freaked me out with his post 50 number, where I only have 33. I may have backed myself into a corner a bit with the way I've built, but there are ways and means. I might add in the tri-lands if I need to.

OMG, have I killed aggro? Maybe, I'm not sure. I don't want a monster, monster, monster, geddon type of aggro. I reckon it can probably exist with some interesting reach cards. I'm not sure I will be seeing 16 land aggro anytime soon though.

http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/10086

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Oh, and when cubetutor gets conspiracy I will be adding



And taking out

Loxodon hierarch
Chrome mox
Blightning

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I think the tempo downshift is fine if you are mostly doing two player drafts. The combination of tiny pools, inconsistent sampling and unreliable synergy are going to make concrete archetypes less reliable anyway. However, if you do plan on using this for 6 or 8 player pods, I think you'll need better mana. If you don't want to slam more into the pool, just get a pile of tier 2 fixers (I like painlands best, but checklands are good too) and just announce at the end of the draft that everyone gets to take 2.

Blue is also a bummer color with some of my players, but one of the blue haters 3-0'd with a black/blue controlly deck last time, so maybe we're turning in the right direction. I still have one player who literally will not even bother reading the blue cards, though once he splashed blue for Simic Sky Swallower. I guess he saw the large numbers and green mana symbol and got confused =)

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

This does look a bit tough for aggro as it looks like only white and red have a lot of aggro 1 drops. Thats not always going to be a bad thing if you want your games to reliably go to the mid or late game.

How has carrion feeder and cloudfin raptor been?

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Feeder is good, cheap sac outlet that can get big quickly in the right deck. Raptor is new and untested.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

/dusts off thread

Man, I haven't updated here in a while. Thought I'd just put down some thoughts on where I am at the moment. Cubetutor link is the one in my sig rather than OP.

I looked at the amount of removal I was running in each of my colours in the cube, as initially I was a bit down on the amount of white removal I had, this is what it came out with:

White: 10
Blue: 2 (not counting bounce)
Black: 11
Red: 20 (!)
Green: 1
Gold: 6 (4 of which have red in it's cost)
Artifact: 9

Now, there's obviously a bit of a mix here with narrow removal and mass etc, but red feels like it's way to heavy. I've tried to give red aggro creatures that are difficult to block, rather than weenies and burn, but guess I've forgotten about the burn. Here's red removal:

grim lavamancer
goblin sharpshooter
murderous redcap
pia and kiran nylaar
magmaw
spitebellows
collateral damage
magma jet
blast from the past
volt charge
firebolt
flamejab
reckless abandon
mizzium mortars
anger of the gods
devil's play
goblin bombardment
ion storm
pyrite spellbomb
shrine of burning rage

The candidates for plucking at the moment for me seem to be: murderous redcap (generically good, persist supports irritating infinite combos I don't want, put will probably stay), spitebellows (I love it, puts a creature in the graveyard, does an unusual amount of damage, but stands out as weaker), flame jab (added to support spells matters and links with graveyard themes, but stands out as weak), mizzium mortars (I love this design, good in aggro, midrange and control, but doesn't synergise with anything particularly), anger of the gods (which I've never been particularly happy with, token control removal, but would want to replace with an alterative red sweeper anyway), ion storm (not a lot of support in red, but helps shift counters matter away from selesnya), shrine of burning rage (in there for the artifact deck, but in all honest probably too good and easy to support burning out).

Here's my thinking about adding list at the moment:

otherworldly journey
return to the ranks
condemn
journey to nowhere
radiant's judgement
sheer drop

I'm pretty sure I'm going to add return to the ranks, I think I might probably want another removal and I'm probably leaning towards journey to nowhere, but it's so boring.

nightbird's clutches
pyreheart wolf
curse of stalked prey
vaultbreaker
goblin glory chaser
war-name aspirant
crater hellion

Pyreheart wolf is probably going to make it, and perhaps the curse. I removed the green curse as it was just too strong, stalked prey helps spread the theme out and is farer, even though I'm not super excited about it. I can't really bring myself to pull the trigger on nightbird's clutches either.

treetop village
harrow
epic confrontation
harmonize
commune with the gods
nissa, voice of zendikar
world breaker
oath of nissa
trophy hunter

Epic confrontation needs to come in, and I'm excited about nissa as a fairer green curse that can support sacrifice, being a planeswalker that actually ties into themes. Trophy hunter is probably too weak but does pull some good work against the many token flyers and pitches to force.

sower of temptation

Generically good, not unbeatable, have room at the four drop, should probably add.

fallen angel
dread summons

I've just posted in single card spotlight about dread summons, but who am I kidding? An inconsistent win more? I've recently added moan of the unhallowed which actually helps you stabilise, kinds with graveyard theme and provides bodies to sac.

izzet keyrune
ulash, the hate seed
ghost council of orzhova

Izzet keyrune is just terrible isn't it? I've got izzet signet in my guild section for the artifact deck, but it's far from exclusively used there. Ghost council I like and spreads the sac theme a bit more, mana cost is horrible though, might go there.

Hopefully my train of consciousness ramblings are at least interesting, happy to hear any views to help with decisions. Cheers.

 

[Alphez]

Hello there! I will return the favour and share a couple opinions

Keyrune is quite bad indeed. I don't know what you are looking for for that slot, but an Izzet-oriented artifact that I always wanted to try out is Wand of the Elements. Not unbeatable, but it gives inevitability both to control and aggro decks. Plus, it's functionally a hybrid card.

Ghost Council is juicy, but that mana cost is rough and its power level is not that high, by modern standards. In my (not so many, admittedly) drafts, it never saw play. I think that mana cost is totally killing it.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Thanks Alphez. I have come to my senses with Izzet Keyrune, it's just wishful thinking. Ghost Council I've gone with. The power level thing is fine for my cube I think and I like how it bridges and promotes sacrifice in Orzhov.

Big OGW overhaul:

OUT:


IN:

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Some reasonings:

Izzet Charm: Casualty for Jori En, average, flexible but unexciting.
Bloodsoaked Champion: Wanted to bring the overall black count down, black doesn't really do aggro and this just sat a bit odd. Only really there for the red black deck.
Shrine of Burning Rage: Was supposed to be in there for the artifact deck, but just too dangerous to burn people out with. Came to a conclusion in a test draft when in the artifact deck and didn't even want to take it.
Bloodspore Thrinax: Not really that exciting, enabled infinite combo with murderous redcap. Didn't really fit in a deck. Would like to see some more good green sacrifice stuff though.
Spitebellows: Really want this to be good (and it is) but it's a casualty of too much red removal. Like how it does six and feeds the graveyard with creatures but it's on the weaker end.
Murderous Redcap: Stupid infinite combo enabler. Still a combo with Anafenza, and I don't want infinite combos so have removed it. My red four drop looks positively empty now.
Thawing Glaciers: Slow hangup from a previous landfall theme.
Counterspell: Realised Syncopate is better in this cube.
Flame jab: Reducing removal a bit, shower of coals is a more interesting push towards red graveyard.
Yasova Dragonclaw: This has never sat well with me, just wanted to give it a try. Replaced with Den Protector to super power regrowths as a 'theme'.
Orzhov Pontiff: Felt ghost council was stronger/pushed the theme better, could see this coming back.
Rakshasa Gravecaller: much as I like this, it just gums up the ground and doesn't do much. Moan of the Unhallowed helps with gumming and provides bodies. Fallen Angel gives a serious win condition.
Sygg: Actually liked this most for the 1/3 body, though could add some serious pressur with Jori En and red burn spells.
Dragonmaster Outcast: Fine, but a bit dull on the battlefield. Want to see what all the fuss is re the Bushwhacker.

Adds:
Crater Elemental: I love this guy even though he looks like he doesn't do much. There's lots of cool plays here with unearth, collected company and corpse dance. Also will provide a solid wall for a control deck.
Perilous research: Has some nice artifact sac synergies as well as with creatures. Lots of cool stuff you can do here with it.
Curse of Stalked Prey: Giving red a bit more counter support and less unfair than the green curse.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I'm pretty happy with where the cube has got to now - there's been too many swaps in and out to count I'm afraid. I just wanted to leave this deck I drafted on CT here - it's a thing of beauty:

Boros artifact/spell control from CubeTutor.com

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Kaladesh - initial thoughts

Oh Kaladesh, what an interesting set you are! There's a lot here to think about, and I thought it might be useful to record my thoughts on the set at the moment. This is likely to change, I'm sure there's things that I'll miss or things that seems exciting now but we don't have the right cards for them yet.

White

Acrobatic maneuver - I kind of passed over this the first couple of times in the spoiler, but I'm trying to give white more ways to access card cycling to smooth their draws. This is obviously gonna be good in KLD limited as you can blink the fabricate cards, but there's obviously other applications in cube. Do you want this or momentary blink? Blink puts you in azorius but this might have other applications and open up other decks. For me it's up against Flickerwisp and Glimmerpoint Stag which I like as they blink any permanent, but it's meneuver is something to thinkabout.

Angel if Invention - There's something odd and intriguing about this card. I wonder if it was say, an uncommon rather than a mythic and didn't have gorgeous art if people would be that impressed by it. Having said that, it is super cool and I think it's likely to prove itself.

Aviary Mechanic - It's no Kor Skyfisher, but it does have a may clause so is worth knowing about.I would probably double up on Kor Skyfisher if I wanted the effect though.

Cataclysmic Gearhulk - This is probably the only Gearhulk that I'm interested in. I keep flitting back and forth over whether it's 'too good', but I'm coming down on the side of safe. I like it because it gives mid-range and controlling strategies a way to get back in the game without totally upsetting the other player. It might encourage the other player to diversify their threats, thought that's probably asking a bit much of the card. The fact that it's an artifact might encourage it into Daretti style decks as well.

Fumigate - Cool wrath that bolsters control. This is definately contending for a place in my small number of wraths, but whilst I have a heavy graveyard theme I'm sweeter on terminate et al.

Ninth Bridge Patrol - Unruly Mob with a leaves play, rather than dies clause. Interesting inclusion that might push it into playable as links with sac, blink and bounce.

Servo Exhibition - Unassuming but the fact that it makes artifact creatures in a cheap spell fit into a fair few different decks. I like it. Hopefully they give it some cool promo art.

Skywhalers Shot - I love scry and restrictive removal, particularly in white. I can see this fitting into one of my cubes at some point. Save the whales!

Blue

Disappearing Act - On the face of this it seems pretty terrible, but Demonic Pact warps my cube in strange ways. I have been looking for ways to bounce my own permanents and this probably isn't the best card to do so but it's nice that it now exists. Probably not for my regular cube.

Glint-Nest Crane - Get in there seacoast drake! You need a lot of artifacts for this to be good and I don't think I'd want it outside of an artifact themed cube.

Insidious Will - All those years ago when Ice Age came out I Deflection was all the rage, but I often wished it had different options. This is one of those cards that is going to create some memorable moments and I think my cube is slow enough to allow for it. Quite excited.

Metallurgic Summons - I think this is probably going to be too slow and 'do nothing' even for me, but I'm on the lookout for non-aggro spells matters style effects.

Black

Dhunt Operative - I've never really been a fan of black aggro and have never really had it in the cube, but it feels like we're reaching a point where there's so many cool black aggro drops (more so than red even!) that I need to seriously start thinking about it.

Eliminate the competition - I was really quite excited when I saw this in the spoiler - splashable mass removal for token/sacrifice decks. I like my wraths to have variable effects and this is pretty cool. I don't know if I'm going to have space for it and the other wraths that I want to run, but I can see it being in one of my cubes in the future.

Embraal Bruiser- Another cool aggro two drop.

Gonti, Lord of Luxury - Kinda fun, but kinda unnecessary black four drop. Doesn't particularly fit a theme but I love casting cards out of my opponents deck, particularly if you can recur or blink them.

Night Market Lookout - I know you're wondering why this is here, but for some reason I can't remember I've been keeping track of creatures that would fit in a 'twiddle' cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/11418 This would be cool here, and between this and vehicles I think I might trying to whittle this down into a properly developed cube. Watch this space!

Syndicate Trafficker - Another cool black aggro drop that has some artifact synergy. Sweet.

Underhanded Designs - I'm now also on the lookout for starfield of nyx saccable enchantments, but the fact you need heavy artifacts as well as enchantments probably writes this off.

Red

Cathartic Reunion - I originally wrote this off. Discarding two cards is a much more significant cost (particularly when you start taking counterspells into the equasion). But there's been plenty of buzz about it on the net that it's worth seeing how it plays in practice. I'm still not convinced that it's quite right.

Pia Nalaar - My one negative about Kaladesh is that there isn't enough thopters, particularly after what was promised in Origins. I like Pia a lot, I like ways to prevent blocking in red and how it has token and artifact synergy. This is going in.

Skyship Stalker - I really like this design. It's fair and scales. It's certainly going in my two player mono-red I'm developing: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcurve/49076

Spark of Creativity - This is a super cool cantrippy spells matter card that will have some cool moments. Would like to find space for this if I can.

Spireside Infiltrator - See twiddle cube above.

Green

Arborback Stomper - Elegant and cool. I like how I can choose between this and Obstinate Baloth depending on what I want and which slots I need. I like that it costs five which gives aggro that extra turn to try and close things down (though that's not how I want aggro to win in my cube).

Blooming Defense - Simpler, cleaner Vines of Vastwood to counter creature removal. Maybe not for me now, but good to have.

Natures Way - An upgrade to Rabid Bite already? Sure.

Oviya Pashiri - Not sure about her, she's a little bit Herald of Anafenza, but her second ability is fairly cool, particuarly for a one drop. But nobody is really playing Rhys, so maybe not.

Gold

Cloudblazer- I'm kind of somewhere in the middle of the two riptide camps on this. I find obviously powerful stuff a bit of a turn off, but the Azorious gold cards have always been a struggle. It could fit in the right cube and right theme for me, but probably not going in right away.

Contraband Kingpin - Should Dimir become heavily artifact focused this will be quite cool, but I don't think there's enough of a theme in those colours to support it at the moment.

Rashmi, Eternities Crafter - I'm only really listing this as everybody else seems to be in love with it. Simic isn't really a velocity type guild in my cube, and it's just a pure value card. I think it probably won't go in my main cube, we'll see.

Veteran Motorist - Loving the scry 2 here, particularly for an aggro guild. Can you imagine how exciting if this was a mono white card? I probably won't find room, but it's pretty cool. Might go in the twiddle cube with a bunch of vehicles.

Artifact

Cultivator's Caravan - I love mana rocks, particularly ones that can become creatures and aren't terrible keyrunes. This probably won't make the main cube, but I like it quite a bit.

Filigree Familiar - Appears underpowered, but artifact creatures that are good sacrifice fodder are valuable as overlaps between creature and artifact sac, while helping to stabilise for grindy advantage.

Fleetwheel Cruiser - This feels a little scary but might make it in to support the aggro decks as a way to push through.

Ghirapur Orrey - This might be too much of a commander card, but with lots of ways to discard cards you might be able take advantage and break the symettry. I have no idea what type of deck would want to play this though?

Metalwork Collosus - Turn 2 goblin tinker effects aside I quite like that this doesn't have trample so that there can still be a bit of game even if it's cheated in early. There's not a lot of room for high end ramp/reanimate targets but this might work.

Perpetual Timepiece - The self mill aspect is interesting, but I'm not sure I like it more than Codex Shredder. Might be worth keeping an eye on as kind of slow, colourless Doomsday.

Scrapheap Scrounger - This would be a no-brainer if I supported black aggro. I don't but I still like this. Mulling over this.

Sky Skiff - This is just going to get overshadowed by Smuggler's Copter, but worth thinking about.

Skysovereign - Everything I wanted Meteorite to be! I like how you can recur this in the red sac deck for removal purposes, but it does make a bit scary flyer. Vehicles will make me keep an eye on instant speed removal and artifact removal.

Smuggler's Copter - This is by far the card I am most excited about from the new set. Gives weenie decks a way to help break through and has interactions with discard and the graveyard. My only concern is that it might be too strong, but I think we'll probably be okay.

Land

Aether Hub - A 'better' Tendo Ice Bridge. It would be the only energy card I have I think. Not for my main cube but I do like it.

Inventors Fair - More colourless artifact support. It's nice, but there's limited room for colourless lands. It's a cool way to get your trading post or spine of ish sah.

Sequestered Stash - I'm more interested in the self mill aspect of this. Five cards is a lot! Could super power a lab maniac or junktroller deck, particularly if you have life from the loam or crucible of worlds.

Okay, fingers are now worn out. Would love to hear your thoughts and we'll see how much of this stands in a few weeks/months!

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

You know when you eat too much cake and then you feel sick? Well that's kind of how I feel after fiddling around with my cube over the last few weeks. There's a lot which I think is good, but a lot which I've probably messed up. Here's most of the recent changes:
WHITE IN

I'm not massively in love with these changes, but prefer them to the removed white cards I think.
WHITE OUT

Removal of generic good-stuff and the narrow monument.
BLUE IN

Really like aethersnipe, entrancer and restoration here. Skaab and Crows feel a bit filler.
BLUE OUT

Generic stuff, impersonator to make room at casting cost level, though still do like.
BLACK IN

Vile manifestation seems really good for what I want. I think tomb robber is cool, but it and zealot feel like they're still close to the chopping block.
BLACK OUT

RED IN

Big changes - more token and artifact support, but at the cost of some of the aggression I think. Impact tremors seems a bit weird with removing the monument, but I'm interested to see what it can do.
RED OUT

Removal of some of the spells matter stuff.
GREEN IN

Chatter is a curve consideration but actually feels like it'll be a good piece of the puzzel - tokens, sacrifice, self mill and discard.
GREEN OUT

Influenced by RBM to review some of my ramp.
COLOURLESS IN

Getting more things to ramp out and removing some problem cards.
COLOURLESS OUT

GOLD IN

GOLD OUT

Things I still need to look at and fix:
* Need to check aggro decks still work and are consistent enough.
* Need to look at my mass removal, and probably add more/tweak?
* Too many black fives?
* Replace young pyromancer not I don't have spells matter, or keep for incidental tokens?
* Check artifact removal
* Try to get gold cards to three and top up mono-coloured and artifact
* Other high end artifact cards to ramp to/control to/or reanimate.
* Can god-pharaoh's gift survive now it has been declared GRBS?
Stuff I want to find replacements for (? maybe's)
return to the ranks
harm's way
geralf's mindcrusher
psionic blast?
supreme will
repeal?
drake haven?
reckless wurm?
rags // riches
tymaret, the murder king

Any comments, questions, suggestions welcome.

 

[sigh]

Does seem like a lot of black fives, but I'm not entirely sure which of them I'd look at removing first. Plaguelord maybe? You have two "sacrifice stuff" five drops, so either that, or I guess Fallen Angel, though I like the angel.

Looking at your wraths, they are very light. One that looks great here is

Partly because it's quite "fair", and the scalability is really nice, and partly because of:

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Okay, I want to talk a bit about aggro. One of the questions I asked above was about checking if aggro still works and is consistent. A few of you were kind enough to oblige with some cubetutor drafts. Here's the first from Inscho:

Boros Aggro from CubeTutor.com" url="[url="http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/867236

My first response, was yay, aggro is alive and well! Then I saw there was six one drop creatures in the deck, which as a turn 2 aggro proponent, made me a bit worried. Implement of Improvement stood out as a bit odd, designed more for control decks, but I can see how you might want it with toolcraft exemplar, inventor's apprentice, seeker of the way and pia naalar, or just to cycle through your deck, though I think there are other options in the sideboard that you could add, or add a cool splash (for either green or black).

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not telling my drafters they've built their decks wrong, and I'm not sure cubetutor deckbuilding is always the most perfect approach but it highlights some of the format warping the aggro artifact matters leads to. (And also suggests sunforger (and piston sledge) in the sideboard aren't necessarily working for people.

Next up, is 'spell aggro' by zombiepete:

RW spell aggro from CubeTutor.com" url="[url="http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/869136

I thought this was really nicely drafted and built. I did wonder why he called it spell aggro, as it isn't something I particularly support. It has pyromancer and seeker of the way, but it looks like a solid T2 aggro deck with some nice token synergy. Does pyromancer indicate a spells matter deck that isn't really there? I love the two black duals to let you spash Finish.

Next up, Dom with a BR madness deck:

BR Madness from CubeTutor.com" url="[url="http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/869728

This looks pretty powerful. I like what ruthless sniper does here, and I think it would be a good place for flameblade adept. A couple of madness cards, a couple of discard triggers and lots of beatdown.

Onto Sigh with golgari aggro:

fzzyhmstrs's draft of Bonzo Cube on 06/02/2018 from CubeTutor.com" url="[url="http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/869737

I love this, such a good mesh of discard, graveyard and aggro. I like how Glissa can be artifact centred or just a savage threat. I'm still a bit on the fence about whether tomb robber is a good/right card, and whether snare thopter is too underpowered, but this deck is an amazing blast that can pivot and threaten from lots of different angles.

And then Sigh's RB aggro, which has got me thinking, and led to this post:

RB Aggro from CubeTutor.com" url="[url="http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/875776

Sigh said in the cubetutor comments:

'This was pretty difficult to pull off. I did kinda force it to see if agro "works", and I seems like it can, but it's a little tricky to draft. The artifact agro is kinda RW, and that can partially isolate the black cards. Also adds that format knowledge layer, needing to know to pick up the artifact bits early on for synergies that might not have shown up yet.'

This one does feel like a bit of an unfocused mess (no offence). It's got the three aggro components smashed together and maybe not being particularly successful across artifacts, discard and sacrifice. It makes me question whether there is too much going on here for people to navigate or is it enough that people will want to explore and refine? I think artifact aggro might be part of the problem (I'll explore below).

And then finally, back to Dom with BR sac:

BR Sac from CubeTutor.com

Dom's quite good, isn't he? Heavy on the sac with an overlap of discard and artifacts. This feels like it works out quite well, and I wonder how much makeshift munitions has contributed to it here, along with marionette master. This is just cool.

Okay, so thanks for bearing with me through all of that. One of the things which stood out for me what artifact aggro. I think Grill probably has this right in his cube, but I'm probably not playing enough quantity of artifact aggro matters. I've actually only got the following for aggro that cares about artifacts:



A lot of these are very questionably 'aggro', though are more forgivable in my cube. I wonder if some of these are giving the wrong signal and leading to drafting errors with little in the way of reward? I can either remove some of these and give me some more room, or beef up artifact matters - there are plenty of relevant artifacts to support but the payoff just isn't there. At the moment I'm leaning towards removing but need to do a bit more thinking really.

Additionally, there's the rogue young pyromancer which is sending wrong signals which probably needs resolving too.


Thanks to all that took the time to draft (and the non-aggro decks), hope you enjoyed it.

 

[inscho]

Yeah, I agree on your build comments....sometimes I don't spend a lot of time putting decks together when I'm drafting on cubetutor...there's definitely a better way to build that deck. That draft I was just forcing the most aggressive aggro deck I could just to see what it looked like in your cube.

Pyromancer will always signal spells matter support. It's just the nature of the card. It obviously has value at even one token, but drafters that aren't familiar with you cube will definitely take it with the intent of going spells matters. I'm not sure how much of a problem that is...I suppose it depends on how well the card pivots between archetypes in your cube. Glancing at your list, it appears to be a fairly generic include based on your archetype support so it may be an easy cut to just avoid the issue altogether.

That last deck is very cool.