General Brainstorming: Microdrafting

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
So, Eric and I were chatting today and we had the bright idea to start some topics that could generate some interesting debate. This is not such a thread. Not yet.

The conversation got me thinking about how Magic is a terrible two-player draft game. Yes yes, you can Grid Draft or Quilt or play Holleywood Squares or whatever, but it is missing some fundamentals. For one, there are perhaps too many colors. Secondly, too many of the cards that we value are great for their general purpose application. When I think of what I want in a dueling environment, I want a lot of picks and decisions to be made based on what the opponent is doing. If my opponent has Dark Confidant and Nimble Mongoose, all of a sudden I want Electrickery. If I have Electrickery, maybe now he wants Spellstutter Sprite. etc. etc.

Narrow cards come at their cost though. Namely, you want to see a lot of them and pick the ones you need (stay with me). Secondly, if you want narrow answers, you need to know that your opponent has a high probability of playing the type of thing that you narrowly answer.

Enter Microdrafting.

It's very vague right now, but the basic idea is that you play with small decks. Say, 15 - 20 cards. 10 life points.

My original idea was to have a stack of very cheap, interactive cards (almost everything under CMC 3), and lay out, say, 100 on the table (the actual card pool can be larger). You would then play the thing Rotisserie style.

The type of cards would all be very punchy, and life total management would be a big issue. Stuff like Meddling Mage, Mental Misstep, Inquisition of Kozilek, Spellstutter Sprite, Flickerwisp, Whipflare, Dismember, etc.

Burn would obviously have to be restrictive due to the decreased life total.



Well, after thinking about that for a while, an idea popped into my head:
Duplicate Battle Royale
In this format, each player would be given an identical stack of, say, 150 cards. They each create their first micro deck and battle each other. Winner keeps using his deck, and the loser puts the cards from his deck back in the box, not to be used for the rest of the session. Then he builds another micro deck to try and take down his opponent's deck. Keep retiring the cards from the losing decks, and play until one player wins 3/4/5 games/matches (whatever).

Also, winner of each game would be able to retire and replace up to three cards after each match. So if they brought in a narrow card to beat their opponent, they could switch to something more general for the next matchup.

The whole thing would be a really strategic and tactical resource management exercise.


So that's my format brew for the day. Thanks for your input!
 
The minimaster-stack mix sounds extremely awesome, and something that I could play for hours.
The problem with a minimum 15-20 card deck is your opening is essentially a third to half your deck. Now though this could be a strategic element in terms of almost always having the answer, but the clock on the games is extremely fast (in terms of running out of deck).
So maybe there would need to be some fixes on the rules (maybe 5 or 6 card opener), but the Duplicate stack seems like an incredibly fun mindgame.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I was thinking that you wouldn't lose via self-decking, but that something like Thought Scour potentially attacks a very important resource: their library. You could also run stuff like Laboratory Maniac. I'm not worried about short games though, it should be a light, hard-hitting format.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I was wondering about the following rule:

If you would draw a card while your library is empty, target opponent loses 1 life instead.
orIf you would draw a card while your library is empty, you lose 1 life.
 
I feel like you should probably lose the life, not your opponent. Drawing cards is already something you want to do, and I imagine it gets really powerful when divination draws you into all your silver bullets, and serves as a potential win condition. Although I imagine it will depend on whether aggro or control is more dominant. dealing damage to you benefits the aggro player, since it puts pressure on the other guy to kill you quickly. Like say the control player stabilizes at 1 life, then they have to make the kill before running out of cards.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
If anybody thinks of any cards that would be awesome / different in a micro drafting format, let me know.
 
When I was in Philly, folks there would have small "Type 15" tournaments, with 15-card decks (and you can't lose by decking). I had thought of seeing if it would work as a cube format, but the valuation of cards shifts massively; you'd need to build a new cube from the ground up. I do love formats that have absolutely no decklists available online, forcing you to actually brew like you had to back in the pre-internet era. (You might want to check the now-out-of-date banlist: http://mtgphilly.forumotion.com/t672-type-15-rules)

Now, duplicate Magic is a fantastic idea in a lot of ways. Has anyone tried just a straightforward duplicate sealed tournament, in which everyone gets the exact same cards in their pool--so you know exactly what the others have to work with? It might work best with more packs, dunno.

I read your duplicate draft idea backwards, actually, with the WINNER tossing his deck back into the box. It would be interesting resource management either way...
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
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Library as a resource.

I would like some high-impact permanents to put on the board. E.g. Moat and friends. Chalice of the Void. Crazy things that you think of when you think of the word "magic".
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Other idea I was playing with is having some sort of way to pay life to put cards from your graveyard into your library. It might not be necessary though.

One thing this exercise has had me thinking about is what I would actually want out of a two-player deckbuilding activity, in Magic or otherwise. Do any of you have examples of non-Magic deckbuilding games that worked well for two players? I get the feeling that tackling this sort of thing well would require building some sort of game system from scratch.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I can't stop thinking about the duplicate idea. I was thinking that to keep deckbuilding simple and quick, there should be a limited selection of lands. Maybe 1 cycle of fixers, with a few utility lands/5-color lands. Also, the lands would be reusable, because that seems less fun to have to meter out. I'll see if I can whip up a prototype list and test the idea with a friend in the coming weeks.
 
To start: my friends and I occasionally play a Pack Wars (aka mini-master) variant as follows:

Open your booster, shuffle without looking. Draw 3 cards. Each turn, you play play a basic land of your choosing from outside the game, and there is no limit to the available basics. If you would draw but couldn't, your opponent exiles a card from your graveyard, then you shuffle your graveyard into your library.

It's just something we do when we are bored and want to open packs. You occasionally get some blowouts, but you get a lot of decent games as well. It took some tweaking to get right. Occasionally you find things that are horrendously broken (as a gentlemen's agreement, the Dimir "mill until you hit a land" cards are now mill 3), and some that just don't function at all (gatekeepers).

I largely agree that for two player drafting to be fun, you need either a cube designed specifically for it, or some alternate rules. I'm a bigger fan of alternate rules, as long as they are easy to grasp. One of the ways to force the players to compete for the same cards would be to use something along the lines of the infinite mana variant I described above. Or maybe each player get 3 City of Brass for their deck. Or maybe each player gets an emblem with 2, T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.

Of course, as I've been mulling this over and writing this post, a new idea: Using a normal cube, begin drafting heads-up using your format of choice (preferably solomon draft, but any variant which doesn't eliminate undrafted cards). After a pre-determined number of "packs," you ban two colors. The best way to handle this is the player who drafted second chooses either to "ban" a color, or "protect" a color. Once he's picked a color to ban or protect, the other player decides the fate of the rest of the colors, such that three are still being played, and two are banned. Now, each player removes the cards from their draft pool that were of the banned colors. When a pack is opened, any cards of the banned colors is replaced with a fresh card from the cube. Hybrid and splits aren't banned unless both colors got the axe. This is all just off the top of my head. Solomon draft is an INSANELY fun format if the manafixing is good, and the ban/protect stage seems like a natural extension of it while also serving to narrow the card pool.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, I've been beating the 3-color drum for a while. I once prototyped a RWU cube for 4-player drafting, which gave us a set of colors with a nice dynamic between aggro/midrange/control. I would imagine each of the 10 3-color combinations would have a very different feel, some worse than others.

Interesting graveyard rule there. I'll definitely be testing all sorts of stuff to see which ideas pan out. This weekend I think I'll go grab a copy of Nethack, as that seems to be hailed as a great two-player card game. Maybe there are some lessons to be learned there. If nothing else, it looks really sweet.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
This is an open call for any narrow/sideboard cards you have loved over the years. Microdrafting will be a format of weird threats and sweet answers.

Also narrow/situational threats are fine. Illusory Angel and its ilk. 15 card decks are small enough to play with rigid mechanical ties.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I've put more thought into this format and still thing it would be extremely fun, but think I need a web application to actually do the playing and deckbuilding through. Any takers?
 

Rob Dennis

Developer
I've put more thought into this format and still thing it would be extremely fun, but think I need a web application to actually do the playing and deckbuilding through. Any takers?


I'll do that right after the app that takes a list and spits out the tokens you need :o (that was a good idea btw)
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I'll do that right after the app that takes a list and spits out the tokens you need :eek: (that was a good idea btw)

Yeah, unfortunately (or not?) I have far too many of these ideas with no time to reasonably pursue them.

BTW last night was my first cube playing with actual tokens (in color-coded sleeves no less!) and it was much better than having dice all over the table.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I think it is possible to do the deckbuilding for this thing in an easy way through MTGO. Unfortunately that also means no strange custom rules (you can lower the life total and have people concede, but you can't have people not die from decking). To pull it off we would need ways to return cards from your graveyard to hand. Here's what I found, anybody have others?
 
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