Sets [C15] Commander 2015 Spoiler Thread

[Jason Waddell]

I pre-ordered a copy for the same reason (Boros is lacking IMO), but I doubt I will even test this card. There's no real play to it. It encourages aggressive decks I guess, but it's not like this is something you have to push in this color combination. When you are in a winning position, it's a 7/7 flying indestructible creature for 5 which is all fine and good. When you aren't though, it's a gimped Serra Angel that requires two colors. Feels win more (maybe it's just super efficient closer)? I suppose it helps you race Titans and what not. It goes back to the urgency prevalent in the game now. Like once you get to 5 or 6 mana it's like MUST WIN THE GAME NOW. I don't know. I just dislike designs like this but I'm old school.

I am not necessarily a fan of the design, but I'd just like to point out there are plenty of board states where your opponent is at 10 or fewer life points and you are not in a winning position at all. Indestructible 7/7 sound kinda iffy though (design wise).

 

[Chris Taylor]

How bad is an indestructible air elemental if your opponent has fetched at all?

 

[shamizy]

Not a fan of Anya for Cube, she's pretty dope in actual multiplayer EDH though. Played a 4 way match last night after dinner with some friends where we each used one of the pre-cons out of the box (all except UR). Meren was so damn sweet, this card should be an immediate add to just about every cube on here. Free Raise Dead or reanimation every turn is so damn good. I just kept rebuying my Wall of Blossoms and Viridian Zealot before I was eventually reanimating giant shit in the late game and saccing it to Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord.

Black Confluence was also pretty damn good. Drawing cards at instant speed in black is stupid strong, and I love the utility of it being able to even take down a reasonably sized dude at 4/4 then either draw or get back a creature from the grave.

 

[ahadabans]

I tested Meren and I'm worried it's too good honestly. In a deck with any kind of graveyard theme, it's basically a removal check card for your opponent that short of instant speed removal same turn does no worse than replace itself. I really hope it's not as broken as I fear because it's a sweet card design wise.

 

[shamizy]

I tested Meren and I'm worried it's too good honestly. In a deck with any kind of graveyard theme, it's basically a removal check card for your opponent that short of instant speed removal same turn does no worse than replace itself. I really hope it's not as broken as I fear because it's a sweet card design wise.

I think it's a fine card as is, obviously can be broken in any deck that maximizes it's abilities. However, it's just a 3/4 without any relevant keywords on it that you need to assemble an engine around to really wreck people. If you have good enough removal and checks across your colors, you should be just fine I would think. The big thing with the commander game we played was that often times just recasting her was the best call b/c I had amassed so many experience counters, but without that option, she should be much more manageable.

Also spreading some hate cards in the cube should be just fine. Bojuka Bog in ULD (if you run it), two Mardu Woe-Reaper, a Scavenging Ooze, and two Deathrite Shaman seems like enough incidental graveyard hate to keep it in check. Also just efficient removal across colors helps a ton (aside from Green who would just rather run over the deck).

 

[ahadabans]

Thanks. That makes me hopeful for Meren. I got scared because literally my first test went like this.... T1 Deathrite into T2 Satyr Wayfinder (dumping three creatures to the yard and grabbing a fetch) into Meren (fetch + deathrite activation).

I know it won't always go that perfectly, but this start was pretty much GG. But even without this kind of sequence, it's exceedingly difficult not to get value out of Meren because the raise dead is pretty much immediate. Look at all the things it interacts with just in green (all of which you would cast before Meren just as a normal course of play - next to no setup needed). Fauna Shaman, Survival of the Fittest, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Evolutionary Leap (there are probably more I'm not thinking of too). And with 4 toughness (and one of it's colors being black), this won't be that easy to remove. Red has to go 2 for 1 except for a couple spells and none of black's ETB creatures can kill it. So I'm concerned.

 

[shamizy]

Thanks. That makes me hopeful for Meren. I got scared because literally my first test went like this.... T1 Deathrite into T2 Satyr Wayfinder (dumping three creatures to the yard and grabbing a fetch) into Meren (fetch + deathrite activation).

I know it won't always go that perfectly, but this start was pretty much GG. But even without this kind of sequence, it's exceedingly difficult not to get value out of Meren because the raise dead is pretty much immediate. Look at all the things it interacts with just in green (all of which you would cast before Meren just as a normal course of play - next to no setup needed). Fauna Shaman, Survival of the Fittest, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Evolutionary Leap (there are probably more I'm not thinking of too). And with 4 toughness (and one of it's colors being black), this won't be that easy to remove. Red has to go 2 for 1 except for a couple spells and none of black's ETB creatures can kill it. So I'm concerned.

Well you more or less got the nut draw with that sequence. That's pretty much living the dream right there

As far as removal is concerned, I've got the following in Red that would be able to help deal with an on-curve Meren is it's too threatening, assuming T4-T5:



I think that's a solid suite of removal in a color that usually has trouble with 4-5 toughness dudes. I especially like RSZ because of the the chance of buying it back and also being able to exile upon burning things. I guess if you really are worried about Red vs. big butts, Flame Slash is an additional option (which I might actually go back to eventually).

 

[ahadabans]

Fair enough. That's more than I thought (though I'm running less than half this and some of what you posted won't happen soon enough to prevent value from Meren).

While I'm sure I could up my removal suite to make it easier to kill Meren (in addition to adding more graveyard hate which I may need anyway), part of me thinks this approach is taking a sledgehammer to a grape. If I need to make a dozen other card swaps to deal with Meren, maybe I should reconsider running Meren. Not sure if it was in this thread but someone asked about Trygon Predator and Jason responded by suggesting they look at removing what is making that card desireable. To some extent, this feels along the same lines.

Don't want to be too negative/fatalistic here. I appreciate the feedback and you talking me off the ledge a bit here. I'm going to test Meren for sure and I'll take a look at possibly adding back Scavenging Ooze and maybe one more red 4 damage burn spell. But I'm not going out of my way to try and make Meren unbroken. If it's a stupid card, I'm dropping it (beautiful art and all). I'll be sad though if it goes down like that.

 

[RavebornMuse]

I think if your red section is routinely hosed by 4 toughness creatures, it may be time to bump up red removal a bit? idk, I purposefully tried to balance red burn so that it would have issues with 4 toughness+ dudes to give midrange some incentive against aggro (aggro and control are generally tops here), and I still haven't seen it result in more than a minor inconvenience.

 

[blacksmithy]

Yeah, I foresee Meren being awesome, but nowhere near bannable-awesome. Like, these days you kinda have to try to make Red unable to kill a 4-toughness person, and she has literally no other abilities than her recursion chain.

 

[Lucre]

I wish boros had some better options too, it has similar problems with Gruul. I think it stems from the historical approach to red being one dimensional. Hopefully something that might get better now there is more a more interesting focus to red design.

RW is the backbone of many control tempo aggro and midranged decks. Its just too bad it only really stands alone as pressuring 2/1 decks or curveout midrange

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Tested a few cards in my cube this weekend.


She's... something. I never realized she triggers at the end of your turn. This is the best Gravedigger ever, and that card was a viable pick in many limited formats. My cube heavily supports graveyard interaction in these colors, and she really is hard to race if she sticks. I do like (a lot) that this is a source of card advantage in green, and that she is sort of vulnerable. Will have to keep an eye on her.


Also known as Blowout Confluence, this card certainly is powerful! The options are all relevant though, ensuring it plays differently each time. I quite like it, and five mana is actually quite a lot. I also have stared ruefully at some noncreature permanents (planeswalkers amongst others) with this in hand.


Speaking of dealing with planeswalkers, this card is awesome! Play it, you won't be disappointed!


Not necessarily great, but good fun at the very least! This went to the player with The Smokestack, High Market and Phyrexian Tower


Solid and appropriately costed. Nice versatility on the effects.

 

[Tzenmoroth]

I second Meren, Fiery and Wizard's raging hardon for blue: Confluence Edition.