General CBS

[Modin]

Waterfront Bouncer is fantastic. It's the kind of card that is exploited on every angle: Bouncing your opponent creatures, your own and as a discard outlet. It's fun, too, so I recommend giving it a look.

Especially when you use it to bounce vesperlark by discarding Trostani's Summoner

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I ran a +1/+1 counter theme in my lower power cube when GW was still supported, and I had to nerf it twice because it was busted. It's just like @LadyMapi says, putting +1/+1 counters on stuff is almost always good. The key pieces in my cube were



It's been a while since I had this theme in my cube, and quite a few good support cards have been printed since.



And obviously all the other NEO cards that care about modified cards.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Is Curse of Predation low power?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Is Curse of Predation low power?

No, that's why I had to cut it XD But it's definitely a card that's up for consideration if you want to support this theme at a higher power level! Elite Scaleguard wasn't far behind in the number of games the card ended, by the way. It doesn't look like much, but it puts incredible pressure on the opponent.

 

[ravnic]

Anyone run this style of blink?

Seems to have some potential at lower power, especially the "up to" on Shimmerwing.

Yes, I run these guys.



They play put pretty well in my environment, as they can bounce creatures for blink, lands for landfall, artifacts for certain artifact payoffs and of course stuff like sagas or Demonic Pact too.

I've also haven't run into problems with the upkeep clause, as many blink creatures aren't great combatants anyway, like the Splicers for example.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Is Curse of Predation low power?

Curse of Predation is completely unhinged

 

[ravnic]

What would you say, at which number is a "scry N" effect worth the same value as "draw a card"? At which point would it maybe even be worth more? Let's assume it's a one shot effect that you can't expect to replay multiple times.

 

[inscho]

What would you say, at which number is a "scry N" effect worth the same value as "draw a card"? At which point would it maybe even be worth more? Let's assume it's a one shot effect that you can't expect to replay multiple times.

3.5. mystic speculation doesn’t feel like enough, but 4 feels like too much

 

[Velrun]

I think it always requires context.

But gun to the head and ‘no context’ is forced.. then 3.75 in my opinion.

 

[sigh]

I think 4 for scry and 3 for surveil, if the GY has even an ounce of meaning to a format.

 

[Nanonox]

There is a sort of +1/+1 counter theme in my cube, with minimal support. It hinges around the aforementioned

Basri's Lieutenant
Rishkar, Peema Renegade

I say sort of a theme as those are the two actual payoffs. What makes it interesting in my cube is the presence of artifact counters and human tribal, whose payoffs put tokens on creatures.



Using artifact humans (Esper Sentinel, Ethersworn Canonist and Metallic Mimic) allows you to mesh the human and artifact cards with a counter subtheme. To take it to the next level, I really like



These allow you to build an actual ramp deck (with Rishkar) and use the artifact X spells as ramp targets.

I am trying to expand it using



Since it's basically a second Arcbound Ravager. This would mean looking for Black cards that use sacrifice, counters, humans and artifacts.

Artifacts



Sacrifice



Humans



This was longer than intended, but I think I basically convinced myself to try the Black counters subtheme thanks to the new artifacts from Kamigawa.

 

[shamizy]

About a year in, how has this card performed for those of you that have ran it:



For the first time in a while I'm giving my cube a long review with the release of this new set and there are a lot of areas I'm looking to refine. The early parts of the curve for R/W Aggressive decks are full of options, but there was a glut at the 3 for a bit. I'm waffling on whether or not I want to cut Tajic, Legion's Edge who has been a stellar aggro card for Showdown. Theoretically this has more play in non-Aggro decks featuring R/W, gives another curve-topper at the 4 slot which has mostly been Winota, Joiner of Forces and Hero of Oxid Ridge to this point, and should be able to dig into burn + grow guys. Thoughts?

 

[blacksmithy]

showdown is kinda busted good in unrestricted historic level cubes, so will probably perform well in the historic to legacy power band

 

[sigh]

Great card. Unique in RW; provides card advantage while offering a different take on vertical growth for RW (usually counters more a RG thing). Can't see removing it for much of anything.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Great card. Unique in RW; provides card advantage while offering a different take on vertical growth for RW (usually counters more a RG thing). Can't see removing it for much of anything.

Wholeheartedly subscribe to sigh's evaluation. Card is top notch!

 

[Erik Twice]

It's a good card that gives Boros card advantage and ties into several themes. It's good for slower, big mana decks and also more aggressive ones as a finisher. I think it's a much cooler and more interesting card than Tajic.

It is very strong, though. I wouldn't recommend it for lower powered cubes because it hits hard.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I wouldn't recommend it for lower powered cubes because it hits hard.

I'm not sure I agree with this sentiment. I think it adapts to different power levels quite well. Typically a high power list runs at a (much) lower average mana value, which means they get to take much more advantage of this card than someone running it in a lower power cube. It's also four mana still, and it takes a minute to get really going, so it won't overwhelm the opponent as quickly as, say, even a four drop like Hellrider can. And it's a gold card to boot. I would say the card definitely merits testing in lower power cubes, unless we're talking about reject rare levels of lower power (and even there...).

 

[Erik Twice]

I don't know if this is the best place to talk about it but Boseiju, Who Endures is increasingly seeming like a massive mistake to me. The fact that all green decks now get a free mainboard naturalize/field of ruin at no real cost is the kind of warping metagame effect I hate in card games. It's not too much unlike companions, in the sense that it costs nothing and will always be there. Even if the effect isn't good (which it is), having a free 3/2 or whatever is just a terrible design.

Also, the whole cost reduction bit is so unnecessary. Is it really worth the text on the card? I don't think it does

Am I wrong?

 

[ravnic]

The whole cycle looks like design mistakes

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Am I wrong?

No. There's a reason Boseiju, Who Endures is the most expensive card in the set right now, and it's way more expensive than a rare from a new set ought to be. It's a ridiculous design, and so is the whole cycle, honestly. Grade A Spike material

 

[LadyMapi]

Wait, how much is it going for?

I pulled a copy in one of my prize packs.

EDIT: Jeeze, that's fetchland territory.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Wait, how much is it going for?

I pulled a copy in one of my prize packs.

EDIT: Jeeze, that's fetchland territory.

At my local prerelease, one player won 4 set boosters, and sold them to another player for €10 because player they only ever draft and don't have use for singles. They didn't want to play the gamble and then go through the trouble of selling the cards. In those four boosters were, among others, a Boseiju, a Kaito Shizuki, and an Unwinding Clock (from The List). It's been a while since I had seen someone open crazy hot packs like that :')

 

[Velrun]

Yeah, I pre-ordered a copy of each. They look Eternal playable.

Also why I think Boseiju, Who Endures is the strongest candidate for the best card from the set (high-power)

Boseiju cost 42 € when I bought it. (The extended art)

 

[TrainmasterGT]

The whole cycle looks like design mistakes

I don't agree with this assessment after having played with these cards over the weekend. Most of these cards are expensive enough to channel, even with cost reduction, that they can be a bit clunky to use as anything other than lands. I had Otawara, Soaring City in my prerelease deck, and I never had a window where I wanted to channel it more than just play it as a fancy Island. There were a few times when I would see people activate Sokenzan, Crucible of Defiance or Boseiju, Who Endures for value, but these cards seemed to be played as lands most of the time.

I still think these cards are very good (I got an Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire on prerelease day because I knew I wanted it even after a lukewarm Otawara experience), however, I think what makes these cards good is the fact that they don't really have a deckbuilding cost. I think people are excited about Boseiju, Who Endures in particular because it's reasonably costed maindeckable artifact and enchantment hate, not because anything it does is broken.

These cards will absolutely see a lot of play, but I don't think they're problematic.

 

[Zoss]

They're broken for constructed and are definitely design mistakes there but they're great for limited and therefore great for cube. Anything I can do to make Naturalize playable is a plus in my book just because people probably should run it but don't like eating their vegetables.