General Classic Cube

[Bumibu]

Hello, I am preparing a Classic Cube for the time after Corona.
I found this List: https://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/60435

Can someone tell me what Delusions of Mediocrity is for? Isn't that card only good if you donate it to someone? Is it really just a lifegain of 10 life fpr 4 mana?

And a general question: Do you play with old rules when youplay classic Cubes? Like damage on stack for example?

 

[Rusje]

What do you want to get out of the classic cube? That list seems like it wants to do a little bit too much. Plus the band of the power level is huge. Rebels? Only a quarter of the white creatures? Weak, unfun, repetitive, and a trap if 2 go for it.

I choose a pre nwo block because I like interaction, cards with downsides, not overpowered creatures, and not too many different keywords. Since true combo is hard to get in cube we bash each other's heads in with relatively weak creatures. This gives time to find answers.

Long story short: choose a few themes/abilities, set a power level restriction, I.e. ancient silverback is your top powerlevel creature and go from there.

You want a classic cube, probably due to nostalgia how it used to be. Give examples what you liked from that era and what not.
Yes most cards will play better with damage on the stack. However, a free mulligan followed by the new mulligan rule reduces non-games a lot. Besides, mana burn rule is also nice to keep especially with urza lands.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I don't think mana burn adds too much, honestly. It was a mechanic that only triggered in 1% of the games (if that) back in the day anyway. The big thing is really going to be damage on the stack. I don't think it makes the game better, in fact I prefer the new rules, but it does represent the old era of Magic better. The question is, what's your player base going to look like? Because learning damage on the stack rules is not intuitive if you learned playing Magic through Arena. The design philosophy of that era more determines how the games play out than damage on the stack anyway, to be fair.

• There were no planeswalkers; a huge difference.
• Cheap spells were generally more powerful; see Counterspell, Lightning Bolt, Sylvan Library.
• Expensive spells were way worse; except for Armageddon, Wrath of God and blue (looking at you Opposition, Treachery, Time Spiral and Upheaval).
• Creatures were worse in general; I mean, Morphling, Masticore, and even newer cards like Troll Ascetic, were top of the class in their day, but don't compare well towards creatures nowaday. Savannah Lions and Jackal Pup were the highlights for aggro.

 

[Rusje]

I agree that mana burn most of the times does not come up. However, if you add powerful mana makers like the ones in the infamous urza block then I like that you sometimes get punished. Playing something really powerful like gaea's cradle or Rofellos without a downside?

 

[Mondschwein]

I myself am working on a Premodern-Cube with the size of 360. It's from Mirage-Block/5th up to Onslaught-Block/7th. During that time, magic cards had the most beautiful template on them, and I love a lot of cards of that era. This is classic Magic for me.

It's pretty hard (near impossible) to balance colours right. Blue was by far the best colour back then, Green and Black also had a lot of strong cards, while especially Red lacks on generating value and was mainly an aggro colour. Therefore you could balance things differently, for example, give the red guild sections one additional slot. You shouldn't always add the best and most iconic cards, I'd rather go with a more expensive, multicoloured Yavimaya's Embrace or even Persuasion than with Treachery, which is just nuts. Also, blue doesn't need strong finishers like Morphling or Palinchron, that's something you should give to the other colours. Adding a lot of sorcery-speed removal is key for making auras playable, which doesn't mean you shouldn't run any instant removal, but it should be more expensive like Annihilate, Second Thoughts and Chastise. Running auras makes enchantment removal more reasonable, and this makes other enchantments like Survival of the Fittest more bearable. You should still stay away from Recurring Nightmare and Opposition.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

During that time, magic cards had the most beautiful template on them

Agree to disagree

 

[Erik Twice]

I think the only rule that has an impact on the cube is damage on the stack. Several old cards relied on that mechanic to work, like Ravenous Baloth. But it doesn't matter too much and you can just replace them with modern equivalents or accept a slight reduction in power. I'm just sad for Mogg Fanatic.

Onderzeeboot has already covered the basics. The issue with this kind of old-fashioned cubes is that balance was not great and you'll have a lot of problems filling up slots. Most notably, enemy colour pairings are not supported, aggro is very narrow and riding on the back of Armaggedon and control is limited to blue and black. When I first discovered cubes, I wanted to make one based on old extended but I soon found out it doesn't work too well.

I agree that mana burn most of the times does not come up. However, if you add powerful mana makers like the ones in the infamous urza block then I like that you sometimes get punished. Playing something really powerful like gaea's cradle or Rofellos without a downside?

These cards never had a downside. At most you lose 1 life for making 4 more mana than you reasonably should.


EDIT: Illusions of Mediocrity is just 3U, gain 10 life. It saw play as a way to laugh at aggro back when brown ramp made the cost irrelevant but it has no use in cube.

 

[Rusje]

These cards never had a downside. At most you lose 1 life for making 4 more mana than you reasonably should.

I admit that my cube is weird but imagine the following scenario. You play green blue in urza block cube. You have deranged hermit and its four furry friends plus a random critter or 2. The opponent is at 8 and has 4 creatures and phyrexian processor untapped and enough mana to make one minion. You have a land In hand and draw a frantic search. I would tap cradle and two islands and hope to not brick, sadly I'd bricked and took 6 mana burn which cost me a turn to survive. I was digging for might of oaks or memory jar too dig further.

On a side note, most of the banned cards from urza block are not silly strong in urza block cube. Often cradle is a land which makes no mana and forces a mulligan or big sigh when drawn. Sometimes it pays for the hermit on it's own. Even monolith is not overpowered, neither is processor when there are enough but not too many answers. It's all about balance.

 

[Erik Twice]

I mean, you had both Deranged Hermit anda couple random creatures with just three lands. I don't know how the opponent managed to get a processor on the board and 4 creatures at the same time. It's a very unlikely scenario that just won't happen enough to justify the rule.

After all, if you are tapping Rofellos and Cradle for six, why aren't you winning? There are very few scenarios in which the damage from mana burn would have changed the game. The most I've ever taken has been from tapping Urzatron for six. Not even Mana Drain has come close!

 

[Rusje]

Where did I say I had only three lands? I said I tap three lands to pay for search and leave one blue and a lot of green in the pool. You are not winning with cradle because there are no such nonsense cards that you win the game if you reach a large amount of mana. Games tend to go quite a few turns since creatures are quite weak and combo is rare in urza block (non-constructed). Constructed urza block is a different beast but in cube you do not get the consistency needed. Which urza block card is a win withg e.g. 14 mana? Stroke comes close.

 

[Erik Twice]

But if you had more lands, why did you tap Cradle and risk serious mana burn instead of using another land? I mean, if you had 3 other lands plus Cradle, that's 11 mana right there. Why get more?

I just don't see many situations where mana burn matters. You are free to reintroduce it to the game, of course.

 

[Rusje]

Because you want to be able to cycle cards, play memory jar and play your new hand? Just one non-land card or a cycle-land would be good. If you did not tap the cradle and you would draw the jar you lose a turn.

 

[safra]

mana burn sucks, sorry dude

 

[Erik Twice]

The thing is, you are not assured to draw Memory Jar. In fact, you didn't. Hoping to draw the jar is the best-case scenario and in any other case, you would have been better off not taping the Cradle and settling for a "mere" 11-12 mana. And if you do draw the jar, you can then decide whether to play it with 7 mana open (a very good deal!) or wait another turn for a full blowout.

In other words, I think mana burn wouldn't have mattered even in the scenario you mention. Either way, if you truly feel mana burn would have made your games with Gaea's Cradle more interesting, go ahead, I'm just lending my opinion.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I think decks that have the most to lose from mana burn would only be punished by it if their controller was playing poorly. If you're losing a game to mana burn by making 27 mana with Gaea's Cradle, you've done something horribly wrong.