General [CONTEST] Exploration Cube
- Thread starter safra
- Start date
maybe try a 2nd scepter? idk. it seems like it's conflicting w cost reduction cards like blasphemous, become immense, stoke the flames
scepter would also guide you to do things like run terminate over dreadbore if you want to support it
feels to me like the effects of trying to support it might hurt elsewhere, like maybe supporting scepter needs to be a starting point for a cube, not a little cute side thing
scepter would also guide you to do things like run terminate over dreadbore if you want to support it
feels to me like the effects of trying to support it might hurt elsewhere, like maybe supporting scepter needs to be a starting point for a cube, not a little cute side thing
I thought about which changes I could make to support it and cut it for another mana rock instead.
Tinkered with a few drafts.
I very much dislike Augur of Bolas, as he usually reads: "Look at the bottom 3 cards of your library."
I also dislike aether vial in cube; I think it's a trap card considering how narrow it is, and how useless it sometimes is even in those decks.
I like the ability to keep getting back time-warp for a long-game finish in this deck, either by flickering E-witness, or bouncing her via venser/Man o' war.
I very much dislike Augur of Bolas, as he usually reads: "Look at the bottom 3 cards of your library."
I also dislike aether vial in cube; I think it's a trap card considering how narrow it is, and how useless it sometimes is even in those decks.
U/G Timewarp combo/Aggro? from CubeTutor.com
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I like the ability to keep getting back time-warp for a long-game finish in this deck, either by flickering E-witness, or bouncing her via venser/Man o' war.
Nice deck! That's what Time Warp is in there for, the 'hidden' Taking Turns archetype. Do you think this deck would have been interested in bouncelands? You didn't pick up any but I feel like they'd enable mana development late-game.
OUT: augur, vial
IN: Cloud of Faeries, Palladium Myr
I would have loved to take 2 bouncelands, but I was not passed a single on color or even half-color bounceland, unfortunately. :c
I'm a big fan of Palladium Myr, he's good ramp and easy to interact with. Good choice!
I'm also unsure about Titania's place in a cube without fetchlands. I goldfished a little and she was very underwhelming; anyone have other green fives they like for this environment? She's good with Knight, Gitrog, the two Evolving Wilds, and not a lot else. The alternative is to add more stuff like Buried Ruin, Horizon Canopy, and Krosan Verge to further support GW Eldrazi. I could also run a couple of Tectonic Edge, but I'd prefer to avoid that for now at least.
Other green 5s I might run instead:
Other green 5s I might run instead:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
GW Eldrazi lands!I'm also unsure about Titania's place in a cube without fetchlands. I goldfished a little and she was very underwhelming; anyone have other green fives they like for this environment? She's good with Knight, Gitrog, the two Evolving Wilds, and not a lot else. The alternative is to add more stuff like Buried Ruin, Horizon Canopy, and Krosan Verge to further support GW Eldrazi. I could also run a couple of Tectonic Edge, but I'd prefer to avoid that for now at least.
Other green 5s I might run instead:
Anyway, did you know that
can search for
?
Also, Genesis has to be one of my favorite green fives. It's so good in grindy games (and pretty useless if you're being run over by aggro decks, granted). Another option is Creeperhulk, which seems fun with eldrazi spawn
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its kind of insane that blue producing bouncelands were first pickable cards there, at least for a while.
Looking at the draft charts is interesting. Quirion ranger is way too low power for this format. You really want that card for value untap strategies. Hermit of the Natterknolls and sygg, don't have decks?
Dragonmaster outcast being passed is interesting, which suggests that there isn't really a R/x ramp deck? Or at least not one interested in a 1 drop. Thats a card that I think of as R/G.
Fires of yavimaya also probably too weak, as is anax and cymede.
Spikeshot elder is a card really for a specific type of R/G deck, interested in using auras as part of a "power matters" theme. Probably not strong enough for this format.
Dead weight being passed is interesting, probably looks too limited?
Boros garrison being passed is super interesting. I'm guessing you don't have the big artifact deck from the penny cube, and R/W is aggro, with no midrange deck. Orzhov basilica is a wheeler too (of course, B/W is horrible to design for, even shambling vent is wheeling).
Skaab ruinator, wheeling probably because not enough gy interactions? This seems weird to me.
Grenzo is wheeling because there probably isn't a big Rakdos deck: add?
Do not understand why enclave cryptologist was passed 43 times: that card is excellent.
I thought initially that maybe blue draw and cantrips were suffocating out the other color's ability to play a control role, but blue card advantage craw is actually quite anemic.
Maybe consider
I think I like the genesis choice, providing that it isn't outpowered. It would be nice to have more green card advantage options. You could also consider a reclaim or regrowth or maybe nostalgic dreams.
How do you feel about it at this point?
Looking at the draft charts is interesting. Quirion ranger is way too low power for this format. You really want that card for value untap strategies. Hermit of the Natterknolls and sygg, don't have decks?
Dragonmaster outcast being passed is interesting, which suggests that there isn't really a R/x ramp deck? Or at least not one interested in a 1 drop. Thats a card that I think of as R/G.
Fires of yavimaya also probably too weak, as is anax and cymede.
Spikeshot elder is a card really for a specific type of R/G deck, interested in using auras as part of a "power matters" theme. Probably not strong enough for this format.
Dead weight being passed is interesting, probably looks too limited?
Boros garrison being passed is super interesting. I'm guessing you don't have the big artifact deck from the penny cube, and R/W is aggro, with no midrange deck. Orzhov basilica is a wheeler too (of course, B/W is horrible to design for, even shambling vent is wheeling).
Skaab ruinator, wheeling probably because not enough gy interactions? This seems weird to me.
Grenzo is wheeling because there probably isn't a big Rakdos deck: add?
Do not understand why enclave cryptologist was passed 43 times: that card is excellent.
I thought initially that maybe blue draw and cantrips were suffocating out the other color's ability to play a control role, but blue card advantage craw is actually quite anemic.
Maybe consider
I think I like the genesis choice, providing that it isn't outpowered. It would be nice to have more green card advantage options. You could also consider a reclaim or regrowth or maybe nostalgic dreams.
How do you feel about it at this point?
All three will come out. Hermit is the last vestige of a werewolf theme I rejected; Sygg I have no excuse for.
Yeah, this surprises me. Maybe there's not enough land-based ramp, and people are being discouraged away from it by the idea that they'll have six mana with five lands out? I think that's spurious; card is a house. Stays in.
I think you're actually right, thanks!
Note taken. In my test drafts I agree.
It hits an awful lot so that's surprising to me. Stays in for now.
There's no big artifact deck, but I tried to replace it with the Swans/Reckoner combo archetypes, which are more suited to midrange and control strats. Can't say without gameplay how well they work but I'm hopeful. It's funny you say this because I have a hard time not falling into RW midrange in my cubetutor drafts! That's probably just me though.
I'd like to support it further rather than cut it; it's a pet card but a surprisingly potent one.
Whisper comes in; I'm running Underworld Connections over Arena right now as a slightly weaker version that's stronger with the land-untap effects. I'll see what else I can do with the supporting cast inGrenzo is wheeling because there probably isn't a big Rakdos deck: add?
and the control options in .I don't really like either of those, to be honest, although Epiphany is a little more my speed than Favor. I think I'll put Sphinx's Rev back in and try out Dragonlord's Prerogative (Opportunity with thematic upside) or Pore over the Pages to flesh out the free spell theme. Peregrine Drake>Pore>combo off seems good so I'll try that first.[...]I thought initially that maybe blue draw and cantrips were suffocating out the other color's ability to play a control role, but blue card advantage draw is actually quite anemic.
Maybe consider
Earlier, I thought about and then rejected Shamanic Revelation, going with the eternal witnesses and gravepulses. I might try straight Harmonize, it'll be good here.
It's pretty obviously not there yet, but I like the skeleton and think it could grow to become a solid Cube. Hopefully it'll make the final 4 and Wizards will do some work on it and make it more elegant. If not, I think it's the kind of cube I'd be happy to work on/refine every now and then until I want to build it in paper.
I've made what I hope are some of the last pre-playtesting swaps and cuts; check the cubeblog for full details. I've also been throwing some spare time into simulated draft gauntlets against the MTG Forge AI, which is terrible at games but an informative deckbuilder.
What I've learned:
UW: skies, flash, control, tempo, artifacts
UB: control, Living Death/reanimator, graveyard value
UR: spells-matter, Swans, Mizzix's Storm, Crush/Wildfire, Kiki-combo
UG: Drake combo, Taking Turns, tempo, graveyard recursion
WG: big Eldrazi, ramp, aggro humans
WB: aggro hatebears, control
RW: Reckoner combo, Swans combo, Kiki-combo, wide aggro, permanent-based sorcery-speed control
RB: pure aggro, sacrifice aggro-combo, reanimator, midrange value
RG: biggest ramp deck, Sneak Attack, curve-out aggro-midrange, Wildfire, Berserkers aggro-combo
BG: aggro-sacrifice combo, midrange sacrifice for value, Spider Spawning, Gitrog lands, graveyard recursion
Wx: humans
Ux: control, untap-ramp
Bx: sacrifice??? devotion midrange??? i haven't played a lot of-based decks so if you could please help me discover what they currently do and what I need to change to make it a solid backbone colour
Gx: land ramp
Rx: tokens, combo midrange
And Eldrazi midrange seems like it can fit in any colour combo, which means there's a real benefit to staying open and picking up Eldrazi beaters early.
I am quite pleased with this and really want to play it against thinking, competent opponents.
What I've learned:
- Storm combo is real. Drake untap storm is powerful, it's possible to go off with a finite 'classic' storm engine (although getting to 8 Storm before Brain Freeze gets tricky and sequencing was critical), it's possible to interrupt storm (Jaya Ballard across the table was intimidating af, my Time Spiral got M Snaked in the middle of a combo and I lost two turns later to a Kiora ult), it's possible for a drake storm deck to win with ETB flickers instead of Drake mana (I cantripped, drew Helicopter Parents, cast them, and made 10 thopters over the course of two turns with M Wall recursion).
- Ramp is real. Control decks regularly hit eight mana, and against the Junk and Temur ramp decks I played they were dropping big haymakers on t4/5.
- Acidic Slime is my comfortable point for land destruction that doesn't end games, so I cut Avalanche Riders for breaking my arbitrary CMC limit. Recurring it was basically game over, and while recurring Acidic Slime was definitely game over I had to work substantially harder for it.
- Aggressive decks can win, especially if slow decks have awkward draws. Lifegain and 2-for-1s give slower decks ways to stabilize against non-combo aggro, which is what I want. Aggro-combo is good (I faced a UR purphoros tokens build that was devastating).
- Midrange decks have sweet value curves but don't feel like aggro decks (I played against a RW midrange deck that went Needle Spires, Lone Missionary, Imperial Recruiter (Auriok Salvagers), Salvagers, and then had an awesome board spam / egg recursion lategame.
- Control decks can realistically cast their 7+mana finishers without artifact ramp and expect them to run train against midrange. I piloted a very fun Esper list that would basically stall and play for value until it could cast Ugin and put the game away. It was totally unable to beat solid aggro decks, which was reassuring.
UW: skies, flash, control, tempo, artifacts
UB: control, Living Death/reanimator, graveyard value
UR: spells-matter, Swans, Mizzix's Storm, Crush/Wildfire, Kiki-combo
UG: Drake combo, Taking Turns, tempo, graveyard recursion
WG: big Eldrazi, ramp, aggro humans
WB: aggro hatebears, control
RW: Reckoner combo, Swans combo, Kiki-combo, wide aggro, permanent-based sorcery-speed control
RB: pure aggro, sacrifice aggro-combo, reanimator, midrange value
RG: biggest ramp deck, Sneak Attack, curve-out aggro-midrange, Wildfire, Berserkers aggro-combo
BG: aggro-sacrifice combo, midrange sacrifice for value, Spider Spawning, Gitrog lands, graveyard recursion
Wx: humans
Ux: control, untap-ramp
Bx: sacrifice??? devotion midrange??? i haven't played a lot of
-based decks so if you could please help me discover what they currently do and what I need to change to make it a solid backbone colourGx: land ramp
Rx: tokens, combo midrange
And Eldrazi midrange seems like it can fit in any colour combo, which means there's a real benefit to staying open and picking up Eldrazi beaters early.
I am quite pleased with this and really want to play it against thinking, competent opponents.
Cross post from the Draft Exchange
Drafted the contest cube
First picked Goblin Bombardment and got some sweet things to go along with it. Assemble the Legion seems pretty bonkers with it. I'm not in love with the bouncelands as fixing in this deck but I had to make do.
Drafted the contest cube
R/W Tokens from CubeTutor.com
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First picked Goblin Bombardment and got some sweet things to go along with it. Assemble the Legion seems pretty bonkers with it. I'm not in love with the bouncelands as fixing in this deck but I had to make do.
Decided to give this cube a draft. First picked Cloud of Faeries and I ended up stumbling into UW Control. I really like this deck and I really like that some of my draw spells let me ramp into my finishers with enough bouncelands in play. Getting a discount on those spells with Sunscape Familiar seems unfair. Seems like a really fun cube.
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Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Just wanted to add that storm combo is probably way more reasonable to flesh out in your list than it is in mine. Lower power formats tend to struggle with good disruption (this is why storm was always so obnoxious in pauper) and with a greater proportion of your cards able to be rares or mythics, you should be able to address these decks in a much more reasonable manner.
Really happy to hear about your control decks. It is an eye opener as to exactly how badly we've unintentionally nerfed the control archetype, in the absence of some sort of engine for it to establish mana superiority with, whether it be mana rocks or bouncelands.
Really intrigued reading the thread and looking at some of the decks that have been put together here, so I'm giving it a shot. Started things off with Swords to Plowshares, a pure efficiency pick that was close with Sylvan Library for my P1P1. Followed up with a Snapcaster and then a Stroke of Genius and Archangel of Thune. Four picks in, I'm really looking for some mana fixing or ramp since I have a nice mix of draw, answers, utility, and threats. I find it pick 6 with a Dimir Aqueduct. Rest of the pack filled in just fine with nice filler--Impulse stands out here. Pack 2 began with Wall of Omens, a fine role player. P2P3 I picked up a speculative Hero's Downfall since there wasn't anything great in UW and I had some black fixing. Monastery Mentor and Soulfire Grand Master joined the pile consecutively and made me pretty interested in more cheap spells if I can get them. Here's where I ended up:
I really like the deck and enjoyed the draft. I think this kind of control deck is really interesting and from what I saw in the draft, really well-supported in this cube. A lot of cube control decks have this interesting tension between powerful creatures like Soulfire Grand Master and Monastery Mentor versus all the sweepers you need to get to your insurmountable late game. I only saw a couple sweepers in the draft but saw plenty of cheap spells to go with the aforementioned creatures and with Snapcaster Mage, so it really feels like my deck full of good cards has some internal agreement as well. Couple little inbuilt combos too with Plaguelord--that's a really neat add alongside Emeria Angel and Lingering Souls.
universe34's draft of Exploratory Sketch on 11/09/2016 from CubeTutor.com
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I really like the deck and enjoyed the draft. I think this kind of control deck is really interesting and from what I saw in the draft, really well-supported in this cube. A lot of cube control decks have this interesting tension between powerful creatures like Soulfire Grand Master and Monastery Mentor versus all the sweepers you need to get to your insurmountable late game. I only saw a couple sweepers in the draft but saw plenty of cheap spells to go with the aforementioned creatures and with Snapcaster Mage, so it really feels like my deck full of good cards has some internal agreement as well. Couple little inbuilt combos too with Plaguelord--that's a really neat add alongside Emeria Angel and Lingering Souls.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Are these the formats the best smallpox has ever been // its way too good?
I sure hope so! I don't think it's too good but it's certainly a draw to go into black.
Draft writeup, currently 500 words. Be vicious, ty:
A Cube's metagame is heavily reliant on its mana fixing. I've taken the Ravnica bouncelands and designed a format around their plentiful availability (40 bouncelands in the 540 cube), drawing from Pauper constructed and RDG limited but at a slightly higher power level. I break singleton once in each colour on broad, powerful cards which gain access to gestalt power as 2-ofs in the same deck.
Bouncelands provide mana superiority for control decks, a way out of land screw for midrange, and a threshold to get under for aggro. I'm inspired by KTK's manabase design, which encouraged fast 2-colour decks and slower but more powerful gold decks. In concert with the various land-untapping effects in the cube they allow for 'burst' mana ramp, dropping finishers early, fuelling X spells, and enabling an infinite mana / storm engine without the traditional reliance on (unCubeable) rituals.
White cares the most about small creatures, Human tribal, and permanent types, with a Cataclysm subtheme for aggressive or midrange decks to use against anything slower than themselves. White's duplicate is Thalia's Lieutenant, establishing it as the most aggressive colour and heaviest source of Human tribal.
Blue cares the most about burst mana, with 'free' spells like Peregrine Drake, Pore over the Pages, and even the mighty Palinchron. It's also the colour of card selection, reactive control, and uses looters to interact with the graveyard and smooth curves. Blue's duplicate is Frantic Search.
Black uses recursive creatures to fuel aggressive and sacrifice-themed decks, but it's also the colour of reanimation, discard, and sorcery-speed control. Blood Artist effects make sacrifice decks incredibly potent, discard lets aggressive decks 'go under' control, and symmetrical sacrifice effects are anything but. Black's duplicate is Bloodsoaked Champion.
Red cares the most about wide battlefields, whether via midrange token strategies or aggressive ones that finish with burn. There's also a potent Big Red / Daretti deck that uses artifacts like Gauntlet of Might and Pyromancer's Goggles to create huge swing plays or finish the opponent with a massive Fireball. Red's duplicate is Young Pyromancer, connecting the tokens theme with spells-matter.
Green is, unsurprisingly, the colour most concerned with ramp. Whether it's using Exploration effects to minimize the downside of bouncelands or more traditional tools like Cultivate and Wild Growth, Green has the quickest access to the beefiest creatures. It's also concerned with sacrifice for value and graveyard recursion, so Green's duplicate is Eternal Witness.
The colourless section provides mana rocks, mana-fixing eggs for aggro or splash-heavy control, and a small but relevant Eldrazi package which gives additional deckbuilding space to any colour combination, although the land subtheme in GW makes it a frequent home for Eldrazi decks. There are trinkets for slow bounceland decks to play on t1, control, Bomberman and Welder tools, and powerful Eldrazi titans for the biggest (or cheatiest) decks in the format.
The gold slots support the themes outlined in the monocoloured sections while also providing splashable value, powerful finishers, and a cycle of powerful and deck-defining three-colour cards.
A Cube's metagame is heavily reliant on its mana fixing. I've taken the Ravnica bouncelands and designed a format around their plentiful availability (40 bouncelands in the 540 cube), drawing from Pauper constructed and RDG limited but at a slightly higher power level. I break singleton once in each colour on broad, powerful cards which gain access to gestalt power as 2-ofs in the same deck.
Bouncelands provide mana superiority for control decks, a way out of land screw for midrange, and a threshold to get under for aggro. I'm inspired by KTK's manabase design, which encouraged fast 2-colour decks and slower but more powerful gold decks. In concert with the various land-untapping effects in the cube they allow for 'burst' mana ramp, dropping finishers early, fuelling X spells, and enabling an infinite mana / storm engine without the traditional reliance on (unCubeable) rituals.
White cares the most about small creatures, Human tribal, and permanent types, with a Cataclysm subtheme for aggressive or midrange decks to use against anything slower than themselves. White's duplicate is Thalia's Lieutenant, establishing it as the most aggressive colour and heaviest source of Human tribal.
Blue cares the most about burst mana, with 'free' spells like Peregrine Drake, Pore over the Pages, and even the mighty Palinchron. It's also the colour of card selection, reactive control, and uses looters to interact with the graveyard and smooth curves. Blue's duplicate is Frantic Search.
Black uses recursive creatures to fuel aggressive and sacrifice-themed decks, but it's also the colour of reanimation, discard, and sorcery-speed control. Blood Artist effects make sacrifice decks incredibly potent, discard lets aggressive decks 'go under' control, and symmetrical sacrifice effects are anything but. Black's duplicate is Bloodsoaked Champion.
Red cares the most about wide battlefields, whether via midrange token strategies or aggressive ones that finish with burn. There's also a potent Big Red / Daretti deck that uses artifacts like Gauntlet of Might and Pyromancer's Goggles to create huge swing plays or finish the opponent with a massive Fireball. Red's duplicate is Young Pyromancer, connecting the tokens theme with spells-matter.
Green is, unsurprisingly, the colour most concerned with ramp. Whether it's using Exploration effects to minimize the downside of bouncelands or more traditional tools like Cultivate and Wild Growth, Green has the quickest access to the beefiest creatures. It's also concerned with sacrifice for value and graveyard recursion, so Green's duplicate is Eternal Witness.
The colourless section provides mana rocks, mana-fixing eggs for aggro or splash-heavy control, and a small but relevant Eldrazi package which gives additional deckbuilding space to any colour combination, although the land subtheme in GW makes it a frequent home for Eldrazi decks. There are trinkets for slow bounceland decks to play on t1, control, Bomberman and Welder tools, and powerful Eldrazi titans for the biggest (or cheatiest) decks in the format.
The gold slots support the themes outlined in the monocoloured sections while also providing splashable value, powerful finishers, and a cycle of powerful and deck-defining three-colour cards.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
- Calling rituals uncubable is a bit harsh on the hundreds of storm lovers out there. Can't you say something like "this is a variation on the rituals that usually fuel storm that also happens to better support ramp strategies" or something? Try to word it in a positive way, don't deride common practices from other cubes.
- I feel the blue and black duplicates are not properly explained. They sort of follow from the preceding text, but much less clearly than the other three.
- Why only five duplicates? Is there only one theme in each color? Because that's what I immediately thought of. Five feels like so few that you might as well not run any duplicates. It reads more as a "look I'm special" thing for the sake of being special rather than a well motivated deviation from singleton. I'ld do either much more, or none at all.
- Also, Eternal Witness? That's your "gestalt power" 2-of? All of the other 2-of's are build arounds (except maybe Frantic Search, though it's probably okay in this setup). EW is just a generic value card that doesn't at all compel someone into a certain archetype.
- Why isn't there a colorlous two-of? (Secret: there is, it's Thought-Knot Seer).
I think what you've written is fine in terms of explaining what the cube is and why, but I think actually, secretly this is a sales pitch, and you need to tell the reader why this cube is exciting and why they should pick it to win. It does this to some extent, but the comment from O'Boot above about making things more positive should be taken a bit further.
You could make something a bit stronger about the singleton breaking, remember they're looking for something different from their normal cubes, tell them how and why!
Good luck with the entry by the way. I would re-download MTGO for this.
You could make something a bit stronger about the singleton breaking, remember they're looking for something different from their normal cubes, tell them how and why!
Good luck with the entry by the way. I would re-download MTGO for this.
Yes, thanks! :3Was that vicious enough?
E Wit works with like all my green themes so I don't think it's unreasonable to have it as the duplicate. I still like the idea of selected 2-ofs because I'm way too fond of the idea of Cubes having a meta of cards you can expect to face out of certain coloured decks. I really couldn't think of anything better, and we all know how much Wizards love cycles.
changes in bold said:
e: disregard this while i address alfonzo bonzo's crit and rework the blurb.
e2: Here's what I went with:
487 words said:
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
If these cards have a home anywhere, they have to be here.
Took a draft at this, 'cause why not.
This is neat, but I'm worried that a deck with this many 1-drops isn't going to like how may of its lands ETB tapped. Also, I first picked Daretti and looked for ways to make him work the whole draft and didn't see any payoffs for him. I looked at the list afterward, and while there's a couple big artifacts, most of the big colorless threat slots are taken up by Eldrazi.
This is neat, but I'm worried that a deck with this many 1-drops isn't going to like how may of its lands ETB tapped. Also, I first picked Daretti and looked for ways to make him work the whole draft and didn't see any payoffs for him. I looked at the list afterward, and while there's a couple big artifacts, most of the big colorless threat slots are taken up by Eldrazi.