Core Set Greatest Hits

[shadowcentaur]

Cubetutor Link: http://cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/6454

Design Goals:
Provide a simple, inviting, fun draft environment for mostly casual players. I rarely have the same group twice, so the cube needs to be approachable to a player drafting it for the first time.

Be a "greatest hits album" for the core sets limited environments. strong archetypes and opens from the sets, with all the trash cut out.

Slightly higher power level than an ordinary core set limited environment. Ordinary card evaluation skill should apply. Attacking and blocking matter.

Include cross-set synergies that did not exist in the original limited environments.

avoid efficient "super bombs" that immediately win games when they drop. Kalonian Hydra, Baneslayer Angel, Titans, or Jace Memory Adept. Players tend to find these "unfair". I don't want rares that obligate you to pick and run them because you'd be stupid not to.


Design Restrictions:

only cards from M10,M11,M12,M13,M14

360 cards.

Duplicate copies of cards are allowed. I make sure packs don't have two of the same card.

Same common-uncommon-rare ratio as real packs. Every pack has 1 rare/mythic, 3 common, 11 common. I construct packs.

Avoid shuffling effects (when possible)


Archetypes/Decks/themes:

Abundant enchantments. Enchantments-matter cards like blightcaster, ajani's chosen, and Thran Golem. 10 equipment cards, including the Ring cycle from M13 which have been consistently popular. Voltron decks are possible but haven't gotten out of control.

Throne of Empires combo: This has consistently created fun at the draft table. Everyone is always excited to see if the combo is there or a piece is stuck in unused packs.

Only a handful of tribal cards. Soldiers is the only one that could create a real tribal deck with 4 lords (captain of the watch, rhox pikemaster, 2x veteran swordsmith) and some war falcons. I tried to prioritize cards that are solid without their friends, but encourage you to get a higher density of them in your deck.

Monocolor: people go mono-color pretty frequently. Typically one player per draft will be mono.

Mill: I wanted to support mill with a minimum package of cards that are useful only in the mill deck. Most of the mill strategy is built up around Jace's Erasure, because it interacts with other cards (unlike tome scour). Jace's erasure+burning inquiry depletes six cards from their deck, and Jace's erasure+jace's archivist can deplete their deck by 6-10 cards per turn.

Discard: Liliana's Caress and Megrim support a deck based around them. Jace's archivist and Burning inquiry support this as well. Multiple ravenous rats and lili's spectre's.

R/B Act of Treason: The steal-and-sacrifice deck. Four copies of act of treason and a few sac outlets. Might need more support. Considering adding more bloodthirst to black to set that as a second theme.

U/R spells matter: supported by one copy of Talrand, Sky summoner and one Young Pyromancer. Players consistently have fun with this deck. I am considering adding some a molten birth and a couple krenko's command to support this archetype.

G/B Hexproof Auras: Mark of the Vampire and Primal Huntbeast dream team. 3x celestial flare keeps this from being unanswerable. tormented soul and blightcaster help too. Has the cute synergy between sengir vampire and prey upon.

U/G flash: Yeva, Nature's Herald supports this with a little help from 2x nephalia seakite and 2x briarpack alpha. Not that developed. Players absolutely love flashing in a sentinel spider.

R/G aggro: Basic red and green face beating. Ramp with arbor elf/verdant haven combo and a couple mana rocks. a few big dudes in both colors.

B/W is just sort of goodstuff.dec right now. There's exalted in both but it's not really a cohesive strategy at the moment. Considering adding a ajani's pridemate to give this some identity (see question below)

U/B is just plain control mostly.

W/G tokens: token production and mass pump. This hasn't been drafted too much, perhaps just due to player preference. Thinking of adding to the green token strategy. Tokens are kept in check by Chandra's Fury and Shrivel, which are strong cards here due to the number of good 1-toughness creatures and tokens.

W/R aggro: Ogre Battledriver followed by captain's call can be really strong. A rush aggro version of this has not yet emerged.

U/W skies: two cheap 2-power 2-drop fliers and warden of evos isle. Also comes out as a straight up control deck sometimes.


Questions:

What planeswalkers could I add? I'm considering M10 Jace Beleren. Keep in mind the no super-bomby-bombs policy.

I'm changing up my removal suite, removing some premium removal to give combat tricks a chance to shine. The people I play with tend to find them more fun. I'm changing to more expensive removal spells like Liturgy of Blood and Chandra's Outrage. Any opinions on the removal are appreicated.

I'm removing pentavus for consistent underperformance. I'm considering adding Temple Bell or howling mine (for mill and control), Druidic Satchel or Trading Post (general funsies with minor support for a lot of things) or Adaptive Automaton (aggro and tribes) for a new rare artifact. What rare artifact do you think would be a good fit for this environment?

I'd like to add a green non-creature spell (i'm pulling Garruk's horde). Suggestions?

Does blue have enough creatures? Cube overall is 53% creatures.

Is there enough aggro support? Should I add some phantasmal bears or more jackal familiars? The 4x Garruk's Companion aggro deck has made a good showing, as has mono-red thanks to stormblood berserker.

I had a lifegain subtheme with angelic accord in a previous iteration before but I took it out. I'm considering putting in a couple copies of ajani's pridemate and some more incidental lifegain like sorin's thirst and bloodhunter bat. Also considering pulling mesa enchantress (who has been totally unused) for a path of bravery, which would support the pridemate deck and as an anthem effect would help out the token strategy. Would this give white/black some identity?

Is there enough enchantment removal (3x Naturalize and 3x Solemn Offering)? Enough artifact removal (3x Naturalize, 3x solemn offering and 2x Manic Vandal)? I was thinking of adding a Turn To Slag since there's a fair ammount of equipment and maybe taking out a solemn offering.

Mindshatter is basically just a placeholder. Any recommendation on a black rare non-creature?

Considering adding Griffin rider. Thoughts?

lifelink mirror matches are just miserable and unfun, and are occurring too often. What cuts should I make to reduce this happening?

I have the Roc Eggs in there to support sacrifice based decks, but it has been sitting in the sideboard. Should I just pull it? On the other side, people have been loving dragon egg.

I'm considering swapping Condemn for Righteousness. It's very similar (1 drop white "removal" that requires the opponent to attack) but could make silly shenanigans with Fling. Thoughts?

How can I encourage more cross-color synergy? People draft mono-color pretty frequently. I've shied away from the basic-lands-matter cards like quag sickness, seismic strike, etc for this reason Do you think they have a place here?

 

[FlowerSunRain]

As someone that works with all the cards, its sometimes difficult for me to help in tightly constrained cubes.

Not because I don't want to or because I don't care, but my brain doesn't typically sort cards into sets or rarities, so I have a hard time envisioning the card pool. With that in mind, I'm probably going to stick to overarching stuff and your card choices, rather then making card choice suggestions.

At first I had no idea what Burning Inquiry actually did, but after reading your explanation, I see the reasoning. Even so, are these synergies worth pursuing? Unfortunately you don't have access to stuff like threshhold or flashback, so it seems like a pretty narrow card even if it isn't specifically poisonous. One Mergrim is probably not enough, though.

Siege-Gang Commander seems like its too bomby for this list, has that been the case? While not specifically bomby, Vampire Nighthawk in the same list as Undead Minotaur seems wrong.

I don't think any of the planeswalkers would be appropriate for this list. Jace Beleren or Ajani, Caller of the Pride might be acceptable, but on the other hand I don't think they actually add anything to the environment.

Removal suites are finicky. If you are cutting out bomby, must kill creatures, you can really dial it back, though. I mean, if Cloud Crusader is expected to do work, running Doom Blade seems completely uncalled for. Murder/Pacifism is probably the correct power level for your sorcery and instant speed removal. Liturgy of Blood seems pretty depressing in any case. Lightning Bolt also seems out of place in a list running x3 Thunder Strike.

If you go with the lifegain idea, trading post is crazy good.

Blue seems ok, but it does seem heavy on creature removal which isn't core to blue's identity. Maybe a Time Ebb or two could be another body.

In a slower environment like this, aggro is less defined by base stats, which are lower across all mana costs, and moreso by access to removal and the presence of evasion. If aggro decks don't come together, push up mana costs on removal or add more fliers. That said, it seems like getting to higher mana isn't that great in this cube and it is a slower list, you might need a slight sprinkling (like 1 per color) of additional 5-6 mana cards in here.

I think your artifact removal is more then plentiful considering your selection of artifacts.

Lifelink mirror matches do sound terrible, I've considered cutting Whip of Erebus myself. Besides the aforementioned Vampire Nighthawk, Lifelink (the card) seems pretty expendable as it doesn't actually shorten the game.

As for cross color synergy, the best way to encourage is it to include cards in multiple colors that work together better then cards in just a single color can? This takes more knowledge of the card pool then I have.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

One of the things that you could consider doing is looking at some of the places where you have broken singleton, and consider whether there are similar cards you could run instead, so as to increase diversity when drafting, and provide some brewing room for the drafters. It can be a helpful exercise, if for no other reason than it gets you thinking critically about card choices.

I would also probably run a copy of messenger drake in blue to help move the sacrifice theme into that color, and pitchburn devils in red, along with a barrage of expendables.

Unfortunately, your limitations paint you in a corner as far as expanding the sacrifice theme. I would strongly encourage you to break your rule and run ray of command (they reprinted it in 5th edition so its technically still in a core set), as that would expand your sacrifice theme into a third color, and increase your density of threaten effects. Four threatens in a 360 list is a bit light, and increasing their density works well with the reduced amount of premium removal, and the shift in focus to combat tricks. It also strongly empowers your aggro decks, provides a check to ramp strategies (which you could than expand on if you wished), and would make your roc eggs good again, due to the sacrifice deck being able to move into a fourth color. I would also run two colorless sac. outlets.

I would be very careful with efficient, splashable removal like condemn.

I also am pretty leery of vampire nighthawk due to his potential to create board stalls, and otherwise extend games.

The mill theme also looks really out of place here, especially if you end up trimming down on the life gain strategies.

If you wanted to run mill, you could try running a card like excommunicate in white, which combined with time ebb in blue, would help make your mill strategy less narrow. You still have the problem though of mill being on a disconnected axis compared to the rest of the cube.
Edit: Some cards that could help connect mill more with the rest of the cube:

Spoiler

Looks like a fun list though, I like it.

 

[MCMcEmcee]

imo the worst part of drafting most core sets is all the slots wasted on mill cards.

I would probably swap Arbor Elf for Llanowar Elf/Elvish Mystic and add the core set duals.
Double Foresee, singleton Preordain... I feel like those numbers should be swapped.

Maybe try Rancor for the green non-creature spell?

As for aggro... shave a few expensive spells for more 2-drops (especially evasive ones). More bloodthirst creatures! (Goblin Fireslinger to enable them as well?)

For the rare artifact, maybe Staff of Nin? You have a decent amount of artifact removal and it doesn't machine gun every creature in your cube. It goes well in most decks and it pushes games towards actually finishing. It might be a bit much if your format is super slow but maybe give it a try?
Another possibility- Jinxed Idol is great as a sacrifice outlet that goes well in regular aggro decks.
Trading Post TECHNICALLY supports sacrifice, lifegain, artifacts, tokens, etc. but it's pretty slow and tends to stall games out.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Assuming the discard thing isn't a goose chase, there is also Liliana's Caress, isn't there?

 

[shadowcentaur]

One Mergrim is probably not enough, though.

Assuming the discard thing isn't a goose chase, there is also Liliana's Caress, isn't there?

I have one megrim and one liliana's caress, so two of the effect. I've lived the dream once with megrim and jace's archivist on the field together doing 10 damage per turn.

Four threatens in a 360 list is a bit light

I had 4x act of treason and 2x mark of mutiny at one point, but took out the mark of mutiny.

Siege-Gang Commander seems like its too bomby for this list, has that been the case? While not specifically bomby, Vampire Nighthawk in the same list as Undead Minotaur seems wrong.

Siege-gang hasn't gotten to see any play just yet, he's been in the extra packs that stayed in the box the last couple drafts, and when I had him in my deck tonight I never drew him. I'm thinking i'll get rid of nighthawk. He wins games, but the games he wins aren't really all that fun.

Blue seems ok, but it does seem heavy on creature removal which isn't core to blue's identity. Maybe a Time Ebb or two could be another body.

I'll give that a try

slight sprinkling (like 1 per color) of additional 5-6 mana cards in here.

I'll try that out and see if it improves gameplay, i'm intrigued by the potential.

Lifelink (the card) seems pretty expendable

Thanks

consider whether there are similar cards you could run instead, so as to increase diversity when drafting

My mid-size white dudes could probably use some variation. All the griffins are basically the same but with slight differences.

f messenger drake in blue to help move the sacrifice theme into that color, and pitchburn devils in red, along with a barrage of expendables.

Helpful suggestions, i'll try them out. I think I might own those cards already.

I would also run two colorless sac. outlets.

I'll get on that.

Some cards that could help connect mill more with the rest of the cube:

I had rise from the grave in there, but nobody ever used it. Mesmerist does have the ability to self mill so the shadowborn demon could be useful. Jace's mindseeker is already in the cube. My worry with jace's phantasm is that it's taking up yet another card usable only in the mill deck (and there's a package of that already)

swap Arbor Elf for Llanowar Elf/Elvish Mystic

Why? arbor elf can combo with verdant haven, and is otherwise basically identical.

Double Foresee, singleton Preordain... I feel like those numbers should be swapped.

Seems reasonable.

add the core set duals.

Evolving wilds has been sufficient for mana fixing in games. I don't have much of a blitzkrieg superfast aggro archetype to support, so ETB untapped duals don't have the importance they do in most cubes.

More bloodthirst creatures! (Goblin Fireslinger to enable them as well?)

Bloodthirst is a fun mechanic. tormented soul does some good enabling, and arsonist can suicide bomb to enable. Should I swap arsonist for fireslinger? Arsonist can trade up sometimes wheras fireslinger is only for the bloodthirst decks.

Jinxed Idol is great as a sacrifice outlet that goes well in regular aggro decks.

I think this is a fun possibility. I'll pick one up at the game store

 

[CML]

Easily the best core-set original print of all time

 

[shadowcentaur]

Preordain is pretty beefy in any format, ya. I've just got the one in there right now. blue was pretty dominant last time I played (4 player sealed deck, U/G, U/W, U/R and U/B were played)

 

[Eric Chan]

I actually think you want to keep the number of Preordains down in a low power format like this. It's a noncommittal, boring pick that's guaranteed to be anywhere from very good to outstanding in your deck, so it's usually wrong to pass it. I find those kinds of cards unsatisfying to draft.

 

[Laz]

Preordain is pretty beefy in any format, ya. I've just got the one in there right now. blue was pretty dominant last time I played (4 player sealed deck, U/G, U/W, U/R and U/B were played)

Like normal core sets, card draw is pretty good, especially if there is very little risk of dying to early aggression. Perhaps non-blue colours need a few more effects that cycle or draw cards?

Garruk's Packleader? Jayemdae Tome? Rummaging Goblin?

 

[CML]

Preordain is pretty beefy in any format, ya. I've just got the one in there right now. blue was pretty dominant last time I played (4 player sealed deck, U/G, U/W, U/R and U/B were played)

Not sure why but M11 and M14 blue were both extremely deep.

 

[shadowcentaur]

Like normal core sets, card draw is pretty good, especially if there is very little risk of dying to early aggression. Perhaps non-blue colours need a few more effects that cycle or draw cards?

I'll try packleader and rummaging goblin out, I think I can make room. I might need to push harder on faster more aggressive strategies. Thinking of adding some phantasmal bears and maybe some reckless brutes to have a 3-drop hasty creature to enable mogg flunkies.