Currently I run a set of duals, a set of shock lands, and a set of fetches in addition to what I mentioned above. Some players in my group have commented on how easy it is to straight-up run three colors, often easily splashing a fourth or fifth. I want people playing more than one color, but I wish it took a bit more effort to play three colors.
Diakonov's Cube (450)
- Thread starter Diakonov
- Start date
So I want to scale back or change my double-picks a bit. Although I still want there to be some double-pick aggro 1-drops, there were too many, which I kind of anticipated. The big question: is there some way I can use this mechanic to steer people in the direction of multi-colored aggro? I had been using 2 Kird Apes and 2 Loam Lions, which worked, except obviously it makes people want to play specifically that combination of colors. Do I cut those back, or find other multi-colored 1-or-2-drops to double up on? For example, I could double-up on Figure of Destiny (except in this case I worry that it might actually incentivize mono-color).
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
If you want to incentivize multi-color aggro, make those decks better then there single color counterpart. The best thing I think you can do is to make sure your cube has a strong sense of color pie and avoid being overly redundant: that is, make playing one color strategically inferior to playing two colors. The main culprit here is usually red: people include tons of small drops, burn and land destruction in red, so there is no real reason to play a second color. If you reduce some of the redundancy in red's burn and aggro-friendly creatures, people will see that they need to move into a second color to get the right density of efficient creatures/removal/disruption to make a winning deck. Cross color synergy is the other way to make it work. In my cube you can see that: doublestrike red definitely needs white or green and heroic/aura red needs black or white to have enough efficient threats.
The negative approach is available too: take away single color options that make the mono-color decks non-viable, but I generally think negative approaches are less fun as they dictate choices. I'm always surprised at the decks that people come up with in my cube and a lot of that comes from just letting things fly.
Overall, I think if you pull back your single color one drops a touch (one less double per color) and then try to find to "ideal" single color aggro deck of each color, you can look at the unused cards and find how many "redundant" cards slot into that deck effortlessly and decide if some of them can be safely dropped. I mean, its not wrong if the nut single color deck can come together and 3-0, the pieces just need to be thin enough and in enough demand that it isn't the default best option because, by the nature of their limited card pool, single color decks are the least variable and arguably least interesting.
The negative approach is available too: take away single color options that make the mono-color decks non-viable, but I generally think negative approaches are less fun as they dictate choices. I'm always surprised at the decks that people come up with in my cube and a lot of that comes from just letting things fly.
Overall, I think if you pull back your single color one drops a touch (one less double per color) and then try to find to "ideal" single color aggro deck of each color, you can look at the unused cards and find how many "redundant" cards slot into that deck effortlessly and decide if some of them can be safely dropped. I mean, its not wrong if the nut single color deck can come together and 3-0, the pieces just need to be thin enough and in enough demand that it isn't the default best option because, by the nature of their limited card pool, single color decks are the least variable and arguably least interesting.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Wake Thrasher hits super hard, assuming blue wants a can't block 3 drop. I try to keep the good aggro blue cards away from 3 because there's so much good stuff at that spot (Man O war, the various serendib efreets, almost everything you mentioned...)
Kira is super good/frustrating to play against as well, but she isn't much of a clock on her own.
Scholar is sadly not very good. He kinda has phasing because of when the transform triggers happen.
Coralhelm is about the only good blue 2 drop that attacks well.
Kira is super good/frustrating to play against as well, but she isn't much of a clock on her own.
Scholar is sadly not very good. He kinda has phasing because of when the transform triggers happen.
Coralhelm is about the only good blue 2 drop that attacks well.
You get a total of 4 copies for AK or Squadron Hawk. It's been pretty reasonable so far. Having to cast the first AK sucks, and then the fourth one can often become dangerous to cast with 40 cards.
Hey if you don't mind cheap answers that pick feels like the best Think Twice in the world.
I guess there is more of a risk of decking! If you have a lot of 4cc spells in your deck 2 mana can be more of an impediment I guess.
I guess there is more of a risk of decking! If you have a lot of 4cc spells in your deck 2 mana can be more of an impediment I guess.
This actually is something I've been debating in my head recently. I just swapped in the second set of fetches in place of painlands and wanted to see how that went, but I might put the painlands back in in addition to the second set of fetches.
The other question is things to ramp into. I've been cutting back slowly over time on good targets, but I may have overshot. I recently cut Hornet Queen. How unreasonable is it to include an Eldrazi? What are some other reasonable ramp targets that I'm not including?
Note: I do run Animate Dead, so I want to avoid something that is going to break the game wide open from that. When I get my hands on a Craterhoof Behemoth, that might be something I'm going to try.
Note: I do run Animate Dead, so I want to avoid something that is going to break the game wide open from that. When I get my hands on a Craterhoof Behemoth, that might be something I'm going to try.
Yeah, Craterhoof is sweet if you want a ramp exclusive target. Ulamog is probably reasonable. I also sort of like Artisan of Kozilek, but probably too weak. Hydra's are hard to reanimate. How about Genesis Hydra?
I don't like 8+ drops usually. I guess 8 is usually okay though if you have a little reanimation. Don't just think of lands as a free eventuality of a reasonable game, those are 8 or more CARDS you are invested in playing this thing. How many of those does the average deck really need to have in play at any given turn? Are you consistently using all that mana? Like if you are consistently playing 2 or more mid cost spells (/abilities) cool but it's hard for ramp decks to have that many productive spells in hand when so much of it's deck is devoted to rote tempo (mana) development.
Like also this is getting really close to half the lands in your deck, and if not I really pity people forced to play 21 or more mana sources to try to make their eldrazi work lol.
I think a little reanimation + strong fatty is fine. Especially in a cube as big as yours man.
I've found genesis hydra to be sorta supes awks so far.
Like also this is getting really close to half the lands in your deck, and if not I really pity people forced to play 21 or more mana sources to try to make their eldrazi work lol.
I think a little reanimation + strong fatty is fine. Especially in a cube as big as yours man.
I've found genesis hydra to be sorta supes awks so far.
yeah, thumbs down to Genesis Hydra
Terastodon is pretty awesome, alongside Craterhoof
i don't generally like Eldrazi unless you have a strong colourless ramp theme (i.e. Grim Monolith)
Terastodon is pretty awesome, alongside Craterhoof
i don't generally like Eldrazi unless you have a strong colourless ramp theme (i.e. Grim Monolith)
It strikes me as similar to onslaught analogues the symbiotic cycle. Much worse than the phantom or penumbra cycles.
I'll remind you how rare good morphs are in cube and how little value a grey ogre has in most cube formats.
(I think my point is unless you try to give it some cover with nantuko elder and hystrodon you'll be playing with an open hand and polluting your format with incidental morphs is a decision to think about)
That said I do love kavu Titan so maybe I'm wrong. My main issue is that it is very tempo expensive to morph it (+risk) and very tempo expensive to play it naturally. You are putting a lot of responsibility on those tokens.
Besides all that man, I think I said this on your CT page but I really like your cube in terms of moderated legacy cubes. I feel like we have different design decisions and some major points where we diverge but I could really see myself with a cube essentially like yours for a number of months. Especially with your liberal experimentation with multi picks and land draft. I know I can be a real cock on the forums sometimes but I respect what you've made there in the same way I have a real respect for Eric and CML and I think I'll be adding your list to the ones I look to when I'm feeling a little bereft.
Great cube man, great room to grow, consistently solid contributer.
I'll remind you how rare good morphs are in cube and how little value a grey ogre has in most cube formats.
(I think my point is unless you try to give it some cover with nantuko elder and hystrodon you'll be playing with an open hand and polluting your format with incidental morphs is a decision to think about)
That said I do love kavu Titan so maybe I'm wrong. My main issue is that it is very tempo expensive to morph it (+risk) and very tempo expensive to play it naturally. You are putting a lot of responsibility on those tokens.
Besides all that man, I think I said this on your CT page but I really like your cube in terms of moderated legacy cubes. I feel like we have different design decisions and some major points where we diverge but I could really see myself with a cube essentially like yours for a number of months. Especially with your liberal experimentation with multi picks and land draft. I know I can be a real cock on the forums sometimes but I respect what you've made there in the same way I have a real respect for Eric and CML and I think I'll be adding your list to the ones I look to when I'm feeling a little bereft.
Great cube man, great room to grow, consistently solid contributer.
Thanks Lucre, I appreciate that. I like your analysis so I'm always interested in hearing your thoughts on this stuff.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I kinda prefer something a little cheaper honestly. My cube has 0 cards that cost 7+, and the ramp decks still feel powerful. Not so sure about reanimator since the only effect I run that comes close to combo style reanimator is Necromancy (Sweet card by the way, the instant speed on it is huge for big value plays like buying back a thragtusk or flametounge kavu during their attack)
Necromancy is one of my favorite cube cards.
I might go for a 2nd copy of necromancy it's a good trick at worst and your big cube could use another reanimation spell. I think one lone animate dead aint that scary as occasional nut draw and both cards are pretty good in boring control decks anyway.
(wishing there were better landcycler fatties rn)
(wishing there were better landcycler fatties rn)