General Fight Club

[Mown]

If starting at 20 life

Bold assumption to have after playing a 5-mana do-nothing in a combo deck.

If you have vintage cube level storm support I think either work, and you might need both. Reservoir can be played in advance, but is significantly worse if your opponent has interaction for it. You could also be interested in Sentinel Tower, but it doesn't work with artifacts and such. I prefer the make-bodies storm payoffs because they have a lower floor for storm count, and are therefore more splashable.

 

[Erik Twice]

Aetherflux Reservoir has quite a few problems Tendrils doesn't.

1) It needs to be played first, which is awkward.
2) It can be destroyed and countered, which Tendrils can't.
3) It cannot be recurred with Yawghmoth's Will or Snapcaster Mage

I don't think either will be played "for value", though it's not exactly unheard of to use Tendrils as a big Fireblast.

Storm, as fun as it is for a few times before it gets a tad boring, is often quite hard to implement in a cube. Most cards necessary are ‘parasitic’, i.e, only good in that deck.

If your cube supports it, I would run both. The storm deck needs consistency and different payoffs leads to different decks/situations.

I've actually found that, if you support the right archetypes, Storm barely takes any space. Most of the cards are either widely playable or can be used for archetypes like Welder or Reanimator.

From my own cube, I would divide it like this:



Tendrils of agony - Fully parasitic, it's either in a storm or no other deck. It 's necessary for black storm to work, though, and it makes the deck more viable.
Brain Freeze - While it's surprisingly useful for self-mill, reanimator or even a control finisher, it's a 24th card in those slots so I consider it parasitic.





These are all narrow cards, but ones that will see plenty of play in other archetypes or combo decks.

Underworld Breach - This is eminently playable and a combo with Brain Freeze and LED but it can and will be used to recur cheap spells.
Yawgmoth's Will -
Brain Freeze - Surprisingly useful for self-mill and, sometimes, as a control finisher.
Thassa's Oracle - Self-Mill, some reanimator builds, can become part of a finisher package in control decks
Underworld Breach - Combo with above, useful as a late-game threat of fire to face.
Lion's Eye Diamond - Great with Welder, Emry and some discard-heavy decks
Memory Jar - Great in big mana decks, great with Welder/Emry.
Lotus Bloom - Great with Welder, can power Upheaval or other big mana plays
Paradox Engine - A big mana card, turbocharges the Earthcraft/Elfball deck.
Fastbond - Staple of the Lands archetype, great with some top of library effects, cards like Upheaval, can be easily splashed
Seething Song - While not as useful as Dark Ritual, it can push a fast Terror of the Peaks or Trumpeting Carnosaur.
Bolas's Citadel - Useful card overall, great for Welder, Tinker, big mana decks or as a control finisher.
Elemental Eruption - Quite a few decks can power this for 2-3, which is great value.

Widely playable:




etc.

 

[Nanonox]

Bold assumption to have after playing a 5-mana do-nothing in a combo deck.

That's fair and the reason why I included how much extra life you get from playing 9 and 10 spells, which makes those numbers the more realistic targets to hit.

If you have vintage cube level storm support I think either work, and you might need both. Reservoir can be played in advance, but is significantly worse if your opponent has interaction for it. You could also be interested in Sentinel Tower, but it doesn't work with artifacts and such. I prefer the make-bodies storm payoffs because they have a lower floor for storm count, and are therefore more splashable.

Sentinel Tower is a good shout out, but I'd like to keep my Storm payoffs as open-ended as possible to work with artifacts as you said. I do have some make-bodies Storm payoffs in



The thing is I like to seed in different options that allow my drafters to get creative. So I have the mill classic in Brain Freeze and I want a damage based one (maybe Grapeshot should have been included in the fight!).

Aetherflux Reservoir has quite a few problems Tendrils doesn't.

1) It needs to be played first, which is awkward.
2) It can be destroyed and countered, which Tendrils can't.
3) It cannot be recurred with Yawghmoth's Will or Snapcaster Mage

I don't think either will be played "for value", though it's not exactly unheard of to use Tendrils as a big Fireblast.

The biggest issue for me is number three as not working with Yawgmoth's Will is annoying. But at the same time, if you cast 4 more spells off your Will, you will still get the Reservoir triggers hopefully getting you a kill.

Number two can definitely come up as well. But if they have a Counterspell, I think they counter the Will or Citadel and you are still in a bad place with Tendrils. Most Storm decks are pretty weak to interaction after all. No counter argument on the fact you are casting a 4 mana vulnerable artifact though, it is fragile!

Number one doesn't apply though. You can cast 4 spells, cast Reservoir and the 6th spell will gain you 6 life as the artifact "sees" what has been cast before it (though you'll likely need a higher Storm (+2) count since you missed the first 10 life).

I totally agree with your breakdown of the "Storm" card. If you are a combo heavy cube, most cards have other homes where they can shine, making them narrow, but not parasitic (fine line I know).

I didn't say much in the first post, because I wanted to read people's opinions, but I feel like the colorless nature of the card is really important. Say I have a non-Black Scrap Trawler deck. It would never play a Tendrils, but Reservoir? Definitely maybe! It's not too hard to chain 8+ spells in a Trawler loop if you have zeros and ones (even outside of KCI loops). Likewise, a Jeskai Ascendancy deck could reasonably chain together enough spells to get there. Or an Urza deck maybe.

This would make the Reservoir less parasitic than Tendrils, which is appealing. Does that upside sway your opinions at all?

 

[Ecophagy]

vs

LF not too strong Red Planeswalker for nostalgia cube. I feel like Koth is narrower as an aggro top-end but can get weird with his -2, Chandra is more flexible and generically good.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

The thing is I like to seed in different options that allow my drafters to get creative. So I have the mill classic in Brain Freeze and I want a damage based one (maybe Grapeshot should have been included in the fight!).

In a near 360 card cube that includes both Artist's Talent & Underworld Breach I genuinely believe Grapeshot has the potential to be terrifying (in the good way).

I didn't say much in the first post, because I wanted to read people's opinions, but I feel like the colorless nature of the card is really important. Say I have a non-Black Scrap Trawler deck. It would never play a Tendrils, but Reservoir? Definitely maybe! It's not too hard to chain 8+ spells in a Trawler loop if you have zeros and ones (even outside of KCI loops). Likewise, a Jeskai Ascendancy deck could reasonably chain together enough spells to get there. Or an Urza deck maybe.

This would make the Reservoir less parasitic than Tendrils, which is appealing. Does that upside sway your opinions at all?

It provides flexibility to an artifact heavy storm deck with Bolas's Citadel as a secondary Tinker target.

If your Selesnya section supports sacrifice based creature loops, infinite lifegain can happen in a multitude of ways. Aetherflux has the magic power to turn one of the most boring ways to lose into something explosive.

I personally like Aetherflux Reservoir more due to its flexibility as a finisher, even if 'storming off' with it is exposed to a lot of additional vulnerabilities as folks have mentioned. At least for my list, combo shells have to dip into White as a 4th color frequently so I do find a lot of benefit in Resevoir's colorless nature.

 

[ravnic]

Green token payoffs that work with other themes in my cube. Choose two:



Swordtooth works with lands too, Path helps graveyard decks. Revelations is card draw and rumbleweed keys of the lands-in.graveyard stuff.

 

[Rusje]

both Revelations and path are slow. Revelations requires 3 or more creatures to make it worth taking the turn off. Are you able in your cube to take a turn of from casting oath, and if so, will the value you generate be worth it? (I like durdle.deck but it is not a great fit for many cubes).

 

[Nanonox]

From those, I like Path of Discovery and Rumbleweed.

These give you a decent spread of effects. One is value over time, the other a big burst to end the game. Explore seems like a great mechanic for your cube as Green likes the GY and lands, so seems likely you will benefit from it. I am wondering if Rumbleweed isn't too powerful honestly for your environment though. A bunch of your token producers care about the GY, so it seems likely you'll have self-mill effects to make the Plant cost 6-8 mana at most.

---

In a near 360 card cube that includes both Artist's Talent & Underworld Breach I genuinely believe Grapeshot has the potential to be terrifying (in the good way).

This is awesome to hear, because I've been considering adding to for a while, but was second guessing myself.

I hadn't considered lifegain combo, and don't run it, but it is another point in Reservoir's favor. Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

vs

LF not too strong Red Planeswalker for nostalgia cube. I feel like Koth is narrower as an aggro top-end but can get weird with his -2, Chandra is more flexible and generically good.

Koth's -2 alone is more interesting than that Chandra's whole suite of Loyalty options and that isn't to say that his other abilities are bad either. I would much rather play with him than that Chandra.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Green token payoffs that work with other themes in my cube. Choose two

Wayward Swordtooth & Path of Discovery.

Your Green token producers are higher up the curve and I think Wayward Swordtooth's Exploration imitation is a great tool to speed up their impact. It has extra utility with Zendikar's Roil, allowing for multiple tokens per turn.

Path of Discovery is indeed slow but it also works excellently with both Wayword and Zendikar's Roil. Explore can help keep the land drops coming while filtering future draws to find threats to use with the newfound mana. The +1/+1 token buff is just the icing on the cake imo, but a very welcome one. Just a slight note, if you do eventually test Kitchen Finks as a core slot, Path can easily go infinite with it if that is something you would like the avoid.

Shamanic is effective (A lot of your token lords would trigger Ferocious), I just think it's a little dull compared to the other options.

I would like Rumbleweed a lot more if the ETB also gave other creatures on the battlefield Haste and its a little hard for me to tell how quickly / consistently it will be castable at 6-7 mana.

 

[TekLazar]

Wayward swordtooth for sure. I personally like Rumbleweed, but the other two seem interesting as well. I think it's mostly a gut thing.

here's one I'm struggling with. I want a charm in Boros that is roughly on the same power as Izzet Charm. So Boros Charm is kind of cracked in my opinion.

I'm leaning towards Lorehold Command, but thinking it might step on the toes of Catharsis. (Which I could see as a charm, but to me it's different.)

 

[ravnic]

I am wondering if Rumbleweed isn't too powerful honestly for your environment though. A bunch of your token producers care about the GY, so it seems likely you'll have self-mill effects to make the Plant cost 6-8 mana at most.

I would like Rumbleweed a lot more if the ETB also gave other creatures on the battlefield Haste and its a little hard for me to tell how quickly / consistently it will be castable at 6-7 mana.

So, there are 15 Prismatic Vistas and 11 cycling lands in the cube, so it is really easy to get it to 8 I think, but you would have to do some extra work to get it down to 6.

Path of Discovery is indeed slow but it also works excellently with both Wayword and Zendikar's Roil. Explore can help keep the land drops coming while filtering future draws to find threats to use with the newfound mana. The +1/+1 token buff is just the icing on the cake imo, but a very welcome one. Just a slight note, if you do eventually test Kitchen Finks as a core slot, Path can easily go infinite with it if that is something you would like the avoid.

Oh, good catch. Kitchen Finks aren't as much of a problem, but the core card Murderous Redcap would be. I don't know if this a feature or a bug, honestly. It's probably something I wouldn't want to have in the core.

right now I am on Swordtooth and Rumbleweed.

Wayward swordtooth for sure. I personally like Rumbleweed, but the other two seem interesting as well. I think it's mostly a gut thing.

here's one I'm struggling with. I want a charm in Boros that is roughly on the same power as Izzet Charm. So Boros Charm is kind of cracked in my opinion.

I'm leaning towards Lorehold Command, but thinking it might step on the toes of Catharsis. (Which I could see as a charm, but to me it's different.)

Rip Apart feels the closest to izzet charm to me. Also comes closest to actually feel like a charm.

 

[shamizy]

Rip Apart for sure, you get a ton of flexibility and interaction options. Being able to maindeck a removal piece that can pick off small bodies and problematic permanents like a Retrofitter Foundry or Animate Dead is huge. It's only getting better with more and more artifact creatures and enchantment creatures being printed when you're able to snipe things like an Overlord of the Balemurk or a Phyrexian Fleshgorger that has clogged up the board.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Whoops I meant to participate in Fight Club but accidentally convinced myself to run Path of Discovery instead.

 

[EzPzJapanezy]

Oh look 2 awful creatures that contain the Persist keyword. I'm at the size where I have to include some of the more 'not great' persist support, and I currently have an Orzhov Slot occupied by Gargoyle. Gargoyle being an Artifact isn't completely irrelevant, it can be sac'd by Arcbound Ravager & Krark-Clan Ironworks.

I've always overlooked Apparition, mostly due to its horrid mana cost. But as my cube has grown so has support to generate *a lot* of Black mana, making its activated ability have the potential to 1-hit KO an opponent. I'm not saying its reliable or even desirable, but I'm wondering if it doubling as a finisher is better than Gargoyle's somewhat more flexible mana cost (Persist combo can extend across all 5 colors) / additional sac outlets.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

I'm leaning towards Lorehold Command, but thinking it might step on the toes of Catharsis. (Which I could see as a charm, but to me it's different.)

I think Frontline Rush is a cool option here. Cool pump spells are rare, and Frontline Rush has additional style points for having a unique pump value. Additionally, it can be an early game Raise the Alarm effect that makes fun Goblins!

 

[MilesOfficial]

Today's Reddit Cube card category was black sorceries, which inspired my issue. Trying to figure out a fourth mass sweeper for black after Toxic Deluge, Damnation, and Living Death.



Extinction Event is really silly and fun but 4MV is a lot to leave so many dudes behind.

I would 100% just run Path of Peril if it didn't have the cleave text. I think. there's a lot of 2mv dudes these days I'd be happy to kill.

Consume the Meek is a bit too expensive but I think it's quite good. Ritual of Soot is very high on my list here as a result, but I almost want to play the extra 1 for instant speed. But Yahenni's Expertise may be better ACS.

Do or Die is an insane card and probably highest on my list right now of these, but it doesn't read or play as proper mass-removal.

Deluge of Doom is a clever design that I respect but the fact that I've not heard of it being run ever makes me suspect it won't do enough by the time you can play it, kind of like what I experienced with the delightful-but-underperforming Quag Feast.

Drag to the Bottom is excellent, but I think I'd rather just play Languish, which has been in and out a few times.

I have enough snow basics in my land box that Dead of Winter would do fine. But it feels weird when snow doesn't mean anything otherwise.

Day of Black Sun feels better than I gave it credit for during spoilers season. Losing all abilities is a real advantage; Ultima showed that.

Gix's Command was in my Cube for a while. I liked it in standard for a while, but when I had it in Cube, it went very late. Same with Mandate of Abaddon! Maybe I can just show people why these cards are so good.

Tip the Scales is a card I feel like I completely missed. That's really cool. Good enough? I can't really tell.

Zero Point Ballad is good. Really good. Again, a card I feel like I've never seen outside of retail limited, and forget it exists when I'm in Cube mode. Is this good? This seems pretty good.

Hellfire is the king of vibes. With all the tokens running around, it may be a little sketchy but...I'd be willing to drop $100 for one if it'd actually get played.

BTW, Nuclear Fallout would 100% be my choice if it spelled out what rad counters did.

 

[Zoss]

Thanks for collecting these in one place! For your purposes, I think the big divide is whether you want this wrath run in creature-light or creature-heavy decks. If you just want something that does what it says, my vote is for Languish. Simple, easy to understand, works on rate. If you want this played in creature/creature combo decks, then Zero Point Ballad is both fair and gives a dream to chase, which I think is something you'd appreciate.

If you want a "small" sweeper, Yahenni's Expertise can be a really, really good version of this effect. Getting to play a three drop immediately after your wrath is backbreaking, especially with how much better three drops are these days than when AER was fresh, but, like, it's a three drop. Very similar to Zero Point Ballad, in a way.

Do or Die is my personal favorite, but like you said, people will tend to bounce off of actually reading the card.

 

[ravnic]

If you really want a sweeper in a more traditional sense, go with Languish. Strong, simple, elegant.

And then you should make room to try Do or Die, it's soo much fun. I love to figure out how long I should hold and when I should cast it. Do you go for it when they have three creatures? Do you hold other removal and allow them to overextent a little more? Or is your life total low enough that you have to fire it now? Sometimes casting this alongside something else on turn four to kill rither their 2-drop or 3-drop is the right play. Sometimes you should play a big blocker instead and try to eek out more value.