General Let me draft your cube

[Karn Cuberated]

I think megaramp as an archetype is not great for a cube's health. However, I do like to shift it from pure green to something that relies on cards like Gilded Lotus and Worn Powerstone. It's more archetype-like that way as opposed to just putting dorks together.

IMO mega-ramp is what necessarily has to play things like Worn Powerstone, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo etc., since (in my understanding) it is a deck that ramps higher than 8-mana (I guess, it's also often called super-ramp). It's uneasy to support, indeed can be not very healthy in cubes, and needs some cheat cards to be present in the environment. That's not what I'm trying to support in my cube. I guess, my desired category of ramp could be called "medium-ramp" (ideally casting 6-8 cmc creatures on t4-t5). I also think relying on dorks is more healthy than on big-mana artifacts because dorks can be played in literally any green deck (alongside with smaller artifact ramp like signets/talismans/other 2-cmc rocks), and are more interactive (you can bolt the bird/bounce the bird). To get some big mana generators we could take Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary and Gaea's Cradle, but that's, perhaps, not really necessary for everyone.
Bigger mana rocks, however, seem to be only useful in Wildfire/Upheaval-type decks (which I do not support) or control lists having several X-spells as their finishers. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't had much experience with big rocks (I cut both Powerstone and Gilded Lotus soon after adding them). The only exception I would make is Coalition Relic because it's a fantastic piece of fixing wanted by every non-aggro deck in my list.
EDIT (didn't notice the feedback on aggro creatures at once):

I just think they are pretty unnecessary. At the end of the day, they are just damage to the face aren't they? They don't really help any particular archetype or deck, they are just very good Lava Axes. I think you can put those cards to better use.

For example, I could run those cards in my Izzet decks. I was tempted because 8 to the face sounds very, very good. But it feels a raw concession to sheer damage more than a fun dynamic.

But they ensure the critical mass of 2- and 3-drops in my Red/x Aggro decks, give those decks powerful tools, have immediate board impact thanks to ETB triggers/haste and sometimes can be sacrificed to something like a Carrion Feeder at EOT before they die to their own text. And I didn't really get your point about giving advantage to the fun dynamic. You mean those creatures are just burn spells rather than something more interesting? Well, I think they're a bit more fun than smiple Lightning Strike's because they can be blocked, so you can't just always send them to the face whenever you want. But anyways, I admit there can be more interesting cards. What replacements would you suggest for these three at my power level? Preferably pre-XLN.

 

[Peter LaCara]

I've played a ton of Historic on Arena so I knew all the cards. My first draft was this Esper control deck. Three Wraths and a bunch of removal can't go wrong. I think that, unlike other cubes, Field of the Dead is fairly strong and should be palyable even when people take lands as highly as they should.

...

While it might seem like a lot of ramp, it's just an easy archetype to draft. I get in by Thragtusk and it's all value from here. The cube seems perfectly finem perhaps a loose card or two and I wonder if the enchantment theme for Setessan Champion works but it seems fine at first glance. It represents the Historic card pool very well. Are there any angles you are looking for input in?

Yeah, I've played a lot of Historic too. Basically all I do on Arena is play Historic and Premier Draft, so I try to base the archetypes in here around the coolest decks in Historic. Unsurprisingly, this leads to a lot of green ramp decks due to the last few years of Magic design. I was also heavily inspired by the Arena Cube from this winter, where Field of the Dead was also very strong. Basically it showed me how you could get there with a typical cube's land density by adding the spell lands from ZNR.

I'm inclined to agree with you about Setessan Champion and her sister, Archon of Sun's Grace. They're currently sitting on the bubble, but I really like Enchantress as an archetype. The card pool on Arena just probably isn't quite there yet.

 

[LadyMapi]

I just want to bring something up:

I sincerely doubt that Folio of Fancies is GRBS in Afternoon Delight as it stands, and I don't think it can be unless people start building decks entirely out of 7-drops. The thing about having so many 2s and 3s is that it's really easy to play what's in your hand. From T4 onwards, it's not unlikely that you'll be capable of playing 2-3 cards per turn (land drop + 1-2 spells). So you won't get that much mill from each activation as you might think, and using the "everyone draws" mode is just going to give your opponent more fuel.

Which actually helps illustrate that I really need more ways to slow your opponent down. Hmm...

 

[sigh]

I just want to bring something up:

I sincerely doubt that Folio of Fancies is GRBS in Afternoon Delight as it stands, and I don't think it can be unless people start building decks entirely out of 7-drops. The thing about having so many 2s and 3s is that it's really easy to play what's in your hand. From T4 onwards, it's not unlikely that you'll be capable of playing 2-3 cards per turn (land drop + 1-2 spells). So you won't get that much mill from each activation as you might think, and using the "everyone draws" mode is just going to give your opponent more fuel.

Which actually helps illustrate that I really need more ways to slow your opponent down. Hmm...

CMC 3 board wipes would lend a big hand in doing this. I don't see any cards like infest or sweltering suns, outside of rolling temblor. Seems like spot removal is going to have a terrible time in this cube unless carefully selected, because almost all of the targets will be equal or lesser in mana. Ruinous Pathing a 3 drop just doesn't seem that impactful.

 

[japahn]

CMC 3 board wipes would lend a big hand in doing this. I don't see any cards like infest or sweltering suns, outside of rolling temblor. Seems like spot removal is going to have a terrible time in this cube unless carefully selected, because almost all of the targets will be equal or lesser in mana. Ruinous Pathing a 3 drop just doesn't seem that impactful.

The spot removal also costs 2 or 3, so it's fine. You don't need to answers to be more mana efficient, you just need them not to be far less efficient for them to be playable. Magma Jet, Savage Alliance, Crush the Weak, Fight with Fire, Rift Bolt... red removal is totally ok. Ruinous Path is still fine and deals with 7-drops. Agree that Phthisis is terrible. Epic Downfall and Eliminate are great, Feed the Swarm and Poison the Cup are fine. Baffling End and Savage Alliance are good, Cage of Hands is fine, I have no idea about the rest of the white removal.

The feedback from the draft was not that removal was bad, it was that there wasn't enough of it.

 

[sigh]

The spot removal also costs 2 or 3, so it's fine. You don't need to answers to be more mana efficient, you just need them not to be far less efficient for them to be playable. Magma Jet, Savage Alliance, Crush the Weak, Fight with Fire, Rift Bolt... red removal is totally ok. Ruinous Path is still fine and deals with 7-drops. Agree that Phthisis is terrible. Epic Downfall and Eliminate are great, Feed the Swarm and Poison the Cup are fine. Baffling End and Savage Alliance are good, Cage of Hands is fine, I have no idea about the rest of the white removal.

The feedback from the draft was not that removal was bad, it was that there wasn't enough of it.

CMC 3 board wipes would lend a big hand in doing this. I don't see any cards like infest or sweltering suns, outside of rolling temblor. Seems like spot removal is going to have a terrible time in this cube unless carefully selected, because almost all of the targets will be equal or lesser in mana. Ruinous Pathing a 3 drop just doesn't seem that impactful.

Many removal spells get by because they are 1-for-1-ing a more expensive threat. Same general reason 1-mana removal is almost always premium in any environment it can exist in. In this cube many spells won't have that advantage until later in the game when 7-drops start coming down.

I suppose a parallel approach to making everyone run more/more powerful removal is to put more emphasis on things like auras, +1/+1 counters, and to some degree equipment. This gives removal spells more of a chance to 2-for-1 and/or remove more than 3 combined mana of value, helping bring up their efficiency again.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

IMO mega-ramp is what necessarily has to play things like Worn Powerstone, Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo etc., since (in my understanding) it is a deck that ramps higher than 8-mana (I guess, it's also often called super-ramp). It's uneasy to support, indeed can be not very healthy in cubes, and needs some cheat cards to be present in the environment. That's not what I'm trying to support in my cube. I guess, my desired category of ramp could be called "medium-ramp" (ideally casting 6-8 cmc creatures on t4-t5). I also think relying on dorks is more healthy than on big-mana artifacts because dorks can be played in literally any green deck (alongside with smaller artifact ramp like signets/talismans/other 2-cmc rocks), and are more interactive (you can bolt the bird/bounce the bird). To get some big mana generators we could take Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary and Gaea's Cradle, but that's, perhaps, not really necessary for everyone.
Bigger mana rocks, however, seem to be only useful in Wildfire/Upheaval-type decks (which I do not support) or control lists having several X-spells as their finishers. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't had much experience with big rocks (I cut both Powerstone and Gilded Lotus soon after adding them). The only exception I would make is Coalition Relic because it's a fantastic piece of fixing wanted by every non-aggro deck in my list.

Yeah, Erik's advice on dorks is not something I would follow. Green decks want to get their ramp plan going as quickly as possible, and the 1-mana mana dorks are the best way to do it. Having 8 or more 1-mana dorks allows for multiple green drafters to be able to reach the density on 1-mana dorks needed to consistently have a ramp spell on turn 1 or two. If I were to change anything about your green section, it would actually be the three-drops. Right now, there's not much beef for your accelerants to ramp into until turn 4. I would add some nice beefy 3-drops such as Lovestruck Beast, Thrashing Brontodon, and The First Iroan Games.

EDIT (didn't notice the feedback on aggro creatures at once):

But they ensure the critical mass of 2- and 3-drops in my Red/x Aggro decks, give those decks powerful tools, have immediate board impact thanks to ETB triggers/haste and sometimes can be sacrificed to something like a Carrion Feeder at EOT before they die to their own text. And I didn't really get your point about giving advantage to the fun dynamic. You mean those creatures are just burn spells rather than something more interesting? Well, I think they're a bit more fun than smiple Lightning Strike's because they can be blocked, so you can't just always send them to the face whenever you want. But anyways, I admit there can be more interesting cards. What replacements would you suggest for these three at my power level? Preferably pre-XLN.

I think your red section's biggest room for optimization would be the 1-drop section. You don't have enough of them. Aggro decks really want to have between like 7 to 8 one-drops to play on turn one. Your entire red section only has 6. I'd add some more 1 drops to the cube. There are some interesting options you're not playing:


You're also missing what is in my opinion the best 1-drop creature for cubes supporting aggro in multiple colors:


Hell's Thunder is also pretty bad. I'd replace it with Legion Warboss- it's another Goblin Rabblemaster!

 

[Karn Cuberated]

We're probably deviating from the inital topic of the thread by diving deeper and deeper into the matter of improving cubes, so, if anyone is bothered by that, we could perhaps continue this discussion in my own cube thread

I'd add some more 1 drops to the cube.

Yeah, that's probably a good point, though my cube also has a Figure of Destiny and a Signal Pest, which technically work as "Red" creatures. But people do not seem to be high on the Pest in their cubes these days, so I might replace it with some red 1-drop.
What do you think about Stromkirk Noble in that role? I guess, in my cube decks play sth on t2 pretty reliably, so he'll have 2 power less consistently than a random Jackal Pup (Firedrinker Satyr from your list), but the card is interesting and I'm trying to justify including it over those.
I'm also intrigued by the Soul-Scar Mage, but I'm not sure: maybe again, I should better add a 1-drop that initially has 2 points of power for consistency reasons.
And, if you had to choose between a Firedrinker Satyr and a Lightning Berserker, which one would you rank higher? The former attacks better without any investments, but the latter has more reach potential, as it seems to me.
Sorry for not Gingerbrute-ing, I tried it out after you had offered it some time ago and it performed pretty well, but my and my playgroup's verdict was it looks very unflavorful in a cube we're trying to build of older cards mostly. I agree that sometimes you should give priority to fun gameplay over flavor, but in this case the fun my duders (and me, of course) get from the cube being flavorul outweihgs this little gameplay-fun loss. Everyone has their own biases

I would add some nice beefy 3-drops such as Lovestruck Beast, Thrashing Brontodon, and The First Iroan Games.

Also, don't you have any older (pre-XLN, as usual) green 3-cmc beaters in mind? I've got Rhonas the Indomitable, but other than that my Gruul decks mostly seek proactive threes in Red, so I might be in the market indeed.
EDIT: You know what, I actually doubt if I should give my Green section more solid 3-drops. I feel my green midrange decks are where they should be in terms of power level, and if I allow for more "t2 cast a 4/4" scenarios, my Aggro players might get aggravated (no pun intended).

 

[Peter LaCara]

Heck, every thread here wanders off-topic pretty much immediately. As long as we're soliciting advice on cuts, I'm going to cut Setessan Champion and Archon of Sun's Grace. Which of these do you like for replacements?

 

[Zoss]

I know I'm not who you were asking, but I'm bored, so I hope this helps!

137 of the 475 cards in your sig's cube activate Teshar (okay, 136 without Mr. Bird), which is about 30% of your cube. I'd say he's a great choice for you, especially since your curve is particularly low to the ground! Personally, Sram's Expertise is a little TOO good for my cube, which is roughly similar; Halvar might be nice, but you only have 7 equipment cards in your cube. Ranger and Splicer are good, but if you're looking for 1-to-1 swaps I like Teshar better as he's (she's? they're?) a flier that generates absurd value over time.

For Green, I think you need to ask yourself what you're trying to do with this slot, as you have a lot of different cards here. Scute Swarm is great in a land-based ramp deck, but you don't seem to have too many cards that let you double up on lands per turn, and you don't have the bevy of Elves that I'd expect to see in a turbo-ramp deck. Jiang is cute, but always felt super vulnerable to me. Roiling Regrowth is of course Harrow #2, and if you're not running Harrow already, what's changed about your cube to make you want to run this? Old-Growth Troll is, to my personal taste, a monstrosity and not in a good way. The troll is precisely the sort of free value that I like to avoid. Realmwalker is cool, but I think the only viable type is Humans--you have 51 Humans and then 23 Wizards, your next most populous category. Diving deeper into the tribes in your cube, you have 3 Humans and no Wizards in Green; Druid is the most-supported creature type in Green at 8 representatives. I think it unfortunately has to be a miss.

This leaves us with Fierce Empath as my personal choice, which is actually pretty good given how many fun targets you're running! Although, if you're looking for other alternatives I'd suggest Managorger Hydra if you're looking for something that grows over time in a similar way to Setessan Champion.

 

[Dom Harvey]

If you get bored again, here's a current sketch: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/6041930f3c20f3188f9596a1

 

[Dom Harvey]

(Keen for your feedback now that you've done a bunch of drafts!)

 

[Erik Twice]

You have drafted my cube a lot so I could only lend you a hand.

1) First, it's clear this is a sketch. You have more payoffs and synergy enablers than cards that serve different roles. You'll probably have to work on the bread and butter of the cube over everything else.

2) You have too many synergy cards in total number. I often find more payoffs and trinket cards that I need. You have a lot of cards that are "nice to have" but not great. For example, I think your choice of +1/+1 cards is poor. I think there are better, less narrow cards to use in the archetype. You could do with only 4 cards that care about the archetype in the cube and do well. If you have Evolution Sage, trust me, you don't need anything else in play to brutalize the opponent.

3) Some of your archetype cards do not actually belong in the same deck. For example, Vorinclex is not a card I want in the same deck as Luminarch Aspirant because it costs six mana. And it's going to win games because it's a 6/6 Trampler, Haster, not because it puts more counters on your creatures. It's busted with planeswalkers, but I doubt that's t the synergy you want the card for.

4) I would cut most MDFC lands. You will run Tangled Florahedron because there's no reason not to, but you won't miss it either. I think these just make the cube larger, they don't justify their slot. I would keep the high-power ones and cut the rest.

5) Your power band is too wide. I think you'll need to choose between a fairly high power or a low one. I think you'll end up with either the high power level of Inscho's previous iteration of his cube or his lower, current one.

I'll make more specific comments once I've drafted your cube a bit more and can point out some specific problematic cards. I publish tomorrow so it will take a while, sorry. I just didn't want to leave you hanging with no feedback.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

4) I would cut most MDFC lands. You will run Tangled Florahedron because there's no reason not to, but you won't miss it either. I think these just make the cube larger, they don't justify their slot. I would keep the high-power ones and cut the rest.

That is not a great idea. MDFC lands are great Bread and Butter cards, as they are extremely flexible and allow for cleaner, more streamlined decks. They allow for effects that might not normally be worth a slot in a deck, such as a Fling or a Regrowth (depending upon power level), to make the final list. An aggro deck probably isn't happy to have a raw fling in it's mainboard, but it's very happy to have a land which can become a fling when drawn later on. The creature//land cards also have a neat synergy with Flickerwisp type cards, as they can be played as lands early in the game and then blinked to be turned into creatures later.

The MDFC lands are great inclusions and I think a cube like Dom's Shark Tank would be improved by including more of them, not by running less.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I've been testing the MDFC lands, and they have been magnificent for me. I echo Train's thoughts on them!