General Let's talk Storm (again?)

Ah Storm. The posterchild of parasitic archetypes. The deck that makes your cube worse and that leads to silly, uninteractive games and awful draft experiences. But some of us love it. To me, it's the most fun, interesting of all combo archetypes. It's a complex, non-deterministic puzzle that changes everytime. For me, it represents the best and worst of Magic, its artistic beauty and its gameplay flaws.

And I've been thinking, hey, perhaps there's a way.

Here's the thing. I removed Storm from my cube. It was taking a lot of space and it annoyed me to see Tendrils of Agony and other unpickable cards around. But when I did it and started tweaking to fill up the space, I noticed most of the support pieces remained.

And by that I just don't mean draw, man and the like. I mean weird stuff like Oath of Druids to put Palinchron into play.

COMMON CUBE ENABLERS



That's a lot of cards that we often find in cubes and that can be used to support storm. Having Yaghmoth's Will, or Paradox Engine does not harm the cube and creatute fun archetypes elsewhere. The problem, as I see it, is not the core of the deck, but the "payoffs", like the Storm cards themselves and many of the above cards being very high picks.

Most notably, there are mana doublers in this list (Which I don't like but people often run), as well as tutors and draw. Paradox Engine, Earthcraft and mana dorks can lead to a creature-based Storm deck. I believe we only need a handful cards to support the deck in that regard. The problem are the win conditions, which are all creature-based.

The exception is Thousand-Year Storm which lets you win with Lighting Bolts being copied over nad over. You probably already run Lighting Bolt and it's a piece of interaction.

CARDS TO AVOID



Some cards that I believe are highly parasitic, not overly helpful and should be avoided. Here's the thing, if you want to support storm, adding a single ritual won't help and the slot could go to something more impactful than Manamorphse. If you really want to add a bad card that only helps one deck, add Lion's Eye Diamond instead.

POSSIBLE ADDITIONS


Sentinel Tower is interesting in that it can wipe boards for control decks. And it seems fun to do so. I'm not sure how useful it is, but it seems more than workable and worth trying. The cost of 4 is high for a "does not change the board state" card, though.

Aetherflux Reservoir is a combo card. The interesting bit about it is that it works with a far larger amount of combos than storm. Storm supports storm and storm only while Aetherflux can work with recursive flickering, for example. I also wonder if there are lifegain decks that could use it.

Palinchron is an interesting fatty to reanimate or play in control decks but which gives infinite mana when paired with a mana doubler.

High Tide and Mind's Desire are, I think, the two parasitic cards that do the most to the archetype and also are the most fun. High Tide combos with all the free spells, can be copied and is an easy late-pick. Mind's Desire is a good tutor target, and can win the game simply by putting a lot of fatties into play.It's super silly (and fun) but you can run uncastable combos in your main deck (Like Kikki-Jikki+Zealous Conscripts) as your main condition.
It promotes weird combos inside the storm deck and doubles as a tutor.

I list Frantic Search twice because, hey, you can run two copies of it. This helps a lot of decks, it's a very fun, versatile card and it increases the number of "untap" effects to a proper number without having to run .

Twincast effects are fun. They are not great and may feel like worsening a slot. But I like them and the versatility of Expansion/Explosion seems nice enough though it doesn't copy Mind's Desire, just High Tide or draw spells.

Banefire is an example of a win-condition that may work in Storm: Draw your whole deck, produce infinite mana, kill your opponent with a fireball.

Some people are playing Hunting Pack in their green decks and it's hilarous. I'm not buying it, though.

Thoughts?
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I started running a storm package, with the pay offs being:



These two customs are there for support:

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You already mentioned Goblin Electromancer, but one other option in that vein is:



If you get to run the theme in Temur, I found out that there's a few mana ramp spells that are fantastic together with these cost reduction cards:



I also extended the untap tricks to green:



I think the great thing about extending storm to green is that all of the pieces are also great in ramp decks, so you've got a nice overlap there.

Like, Mana Flare and Heartbeat of Spring are super fun in the Zacama, Primal Calamity, and I'm also looking forward to firing off huge Finale of Devastations and Finale of Promises :)
 
I have a real as-fan of dragons and I'm interested in making Dragonstorm work, but 9 mana is SOOOO much. I think it's probably easier to stick with stuff like RUG Sarkhan and his ultimate.

Overall I'm pretty iffy on what storm really offers an environment (a combo deck that makes the drafter feel very smart) compared to what it asks from the environment (fast mana and niche cards). I don't think the approach in the OP here does enough to address the problem of fast mana and it's ability to destabilize a format.
 
I have a real as-fan of dragons and I'm interested in making Dragonstorm work, but 9 mana is SOOOO much. I think it's probably easier to stick with stuff like RUG Sarkhan and his ultimate.
I think the biggest problem with Dragonstorm is that you need a good bunch of Dragons to put into play with it.

Overall I'm pretty iffy on what storm really offers an environment (a combo deck that makes the drafter feel very smart) compared to what it asks from the environment (fast mana and niche cards). I don't think the approach in the OP here does enough to address the problem of fast mana and it's ability to destabilize a format.
Storm is not great from a strict gameplay perspective. It has little board presence, it's hard to interact with and leads to racing. But what I find interesting about Magic is not the quality of its gameplay. After all, it's a high-variance game, with interaction being mostly binary and in the form of destroying the target. It compares rather poorly to, say, the new version of L5R. For me the best part of Magic are the cool effects, the narrative of the cards, the way you can mix several seemingly unrelated ingridients and win the game. And that's why I like Storm.

I really think that Storm is the best and the worst of Magic. It's all the bullshit, non-interactive, I win and you can't do anything about it. But it's also the crazy, out-of-the-box solution that no other game has.

I mean, it's the most interesting combo deck of them all. Kiki-Jikki and Donate always play out the same, they are simply a matter of putting the cards together. Storm isn't. Storm is a puzzle that you solve each time. And I like that.

Still, I don't think you need fast mana at all. You need mana, and quite a bit, but you don't need it to be fast or in the vein of Grim Monolith. Storm was playable in extended on the back of much weaker spells, like eggs or Cloud of Faeries. If the power level is right (either very high or moderate), I think it may be possible to play Storm.

I'm going to try make a list of the minimun support for the archetype.
 
I keep wondering what's the minimal support for the archetype. Here's a very old Extended list for inspiration:
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=8928&d=250941&f=EX

As you can see, there's very little fast mana in the list. In fact, like all Extended storm decks, it's not so much a storm deck as it is a MindsDesire.dec The idea is to get some not-so-fast mana on the table like Shappire Medallion and Chrome Mox, then cast MD, chain them and untap all your lands for free with Cloud of Faeries, Snap and Turnabout. I think something of the sort can be replicated. Many of the cubes I see around here seem to have a similar power level to what Extended have.

I decided to add the following cards to my cube and see what can be drafted:
Lion's Eye Diamond Lotus Bloom Mind's Desire Sentinel Tower Frantic Search Baral, Chief of Compliance Heartbeat of Spring Mana Flare High Tide

And it actually seems to work pretty decently. I forced Storm in 5 drafts.

1) Drafted a couple storm cards, but there were no more and I ended up with a Blue Control deck.
2) Lack of playables. The core is fantastic, but there's nothing else here:

Storm Test 1 from CubeTutor.com











3) Looks good, but it's low on disruption and Guttersnipe sucks.

Storm Test 2 from CubeTutor.com












4) Again short of playables but amazing core.

Storm Test 1 from CubeTutor.com











5) This deck has it very easy to generate infinite mana and has cool interaction. It needs Sentinel Tower to win but you can work around that.

Storm Test 4 from CubeTutor.com












Some observations:

1) This shows that a small number of cards can create the deck.
2) The deck is awkardly split between 4 colours. Blue is mandatory, Green is either extremely important or irrelevant. Black and Red are splashed.
3) The difficulty part of the draft is getting support and interaction. All the important cards wheel.
4) There's no need for all of Baral, Goblin Electromancer, Heartbeat, Mana Flare and High Tide.
5) The decks have severe win-condition problems. Drafting a deck like this only to rely on Guttersnipe is awful. It will just get killed and you lose.
6) Slots are difficult to allocate. Heartbeat of Spring is much more useful than Mana Flare, but Green has more competition for that slot than Red. High Tide is strong...but it's another Blue Spot that could also go to Dream Halls or other "broken" card.
 
So I've discovered that Doomsday works in cube. And that it actually makes it very easy to build a deck with a combo finish that doesn't require lots of parasitic slots. And I keep thinking, it might be possible to use Gifts Ungiven in a similar way. We just need some piles that work well with it. Some thoughts.

1) I think having both Doomsday and Gits is enough to make the archetype work.
2) Most pieces needed for combo will be draftable if there are three of them (Say, Regrowth, Eternal Witness, Noxious Revival)
3) Creature win-cons are accetapble if the deck has enough interaction. Doomsday and Gifts allows you to spend less slots on combo cards and a control package reduces the need for fast mana by allowing more land drops.
4) Win conditions should be Laboratory Maniac, one storm or storm-like spell and minor, obvious piles like "Tinker+Darksteel Colossus".
5) I think it's possible, if difficult to make piles that work for both Doomsday and Gifts.

Do you know any piles? Can we make piles that gives us infinite turns or infinite Mindslaver activations? How do these piles look like?
 
On Storm

It seems like your cube only lacks 1 (maybe 2) win-conditions. Then you should be fine and can leave that part alone.
 
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