Lief's Cube

[Liefbread]

I present to you, Lief's Combat Cube V1, a list aiming to break colors traditional draft roles and bring in a new kind of balance.

And the draft link: http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/108938

Core Tenants of the Combat Cube​

1. Drafting should matter. Not just because you're getting the picks you need, but because it's worthwhile to pay attention to what your opponents will be drafting. There are conspiracy cards that can influence your pick order or evaluation of a card, there are tight archetypes where you will need to pick up key cards to make them come together, and there are fun cards like Cogwork Librarian, which will help you to achieve your goals. This is a 360 card cube and every draft of it is a tailored experience.​

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2. Fixing and Colorless go hand in hand. Fixing is limited and the colorless pool is deep and strong. There are only 2 "dual-lands" per color, and although they should be fast, one is slightly punishing (pain lands) and the other is a checkland. This may change in the future, but right now it contributes to holding back greed on pushing into a 3-color deck.​

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3. The general theme is "Fair Magic". Any card that can or will single-handedly win a game without interaction is on the watchlist, in this cube combat math matters. You will have to make trades, most decks will be low to the ground, and the games will be relatively fast. This cube is looking to be a fast and fun experience that breaks some of the more interesting archetypes from magics history into the draft scene, it's a heck of a passion project and I appreciate y'all taking your time to look at it.​

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Intended/Recommended Archetypes:​

: Flicker/Effect Recursion, Artifacts, Tempo​

: Rogues, Tempo, Control​

: Aristocrats, Control/Value Recursion, Aggro​

: Aggro/Stompy, +1/+1 Counters, Go Big​

: +1/+1 Counters, Flicker/ETB, Go Wide​

: Aristocrats, Recursion, Tokens​

: +1/+1 Counters, Strong Removal, Resilient Threats​

: Tempo, Aggro, Tokens​

: Spells, Control, Tempo​

: Combat Control, Big Threats, Combo​

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Notes: ​

There's very little in the way of counter spells, discard, or permanent protection from X, the artifacts are generally hotly contested but cover a wide array of situations. There should be very few cards in the cube that can't be answered in every color, and if they can't then they are probably on the watch list.​

 

[Liefbread]

Hot List for Cuts​

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Dauntless Bodyguard - Doesn't seem like people are playing him that much. He does a good job of matching to the core concept of the cube (exchanges one for one to allow choice/agency in a removal interaction) but the fact that he has to be played after the thing you want to protect seems to turn people off of him.​

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Seeker of the Way - White's support in the spells matter archetype has been dropping as the cube adjusts, and this is kind of a last holdover, but it's such a sweet card it may just deserve to stay as a "bear that's sometimes bigger and has lifelink."​

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Brightling - On paper it's a hard to deal with card, in the cube thus far I've never seen it singlehandedly win or carry games, yeah, it's really hard to remove, people keep groaning every time it comes down, only for it to not be able to really swing in for 4 or 5 turns in a row (or to be bounced after being blocked), I'll keep it on the watchlist because it seems to inspire bad feelings, but I genuinely don't think this is "too good".​

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Cloudshift - So I've noted that Flicker/Effect Recursion is an archetype, but it's more of a supporting archetype than something you would build an entire deck around, people see Cloudshift and instead of thinking "hey this is a decent protection spell to trade 1-1 for a card I want to keep, or to gain some value on the board." they assume "Flicker is a supported primary archetype and not just a mechanic that I can accrue some value from." I really like the card, but it may send the wrong signal to people new to the cube/who have not taken some time to look at the list, might be too much of a trap.​

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Delver of Secrets - I'm not sure there's enough "spells deck" support to make Delver worth it in Limited, feels kind of like a trap. I think the spells deck is strong, but I think it's stronger as a prowess deck.​

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Vampire Cutthroat - Kind of insular, trying to give the Rogues deck enough good one drops to be relevant, but in the grand scheme of things this guy doesn't contribute anything to the rest of the board, might just not be good enough for a one drop slot, support might be better for a different archetype.

Pack Rat - Is strong, but not particularly stronger than some other game ending threats when you have 5 mana on board. The general card quality of the cube makes it a question of how many discards are worth another pack rat in card quality, not sure this one single-handedly steals the show.

Bontu the Glorified - Might just be too good, it's impossible for Green to deal with outside of Song of the Dryads. People complain about it, so it goes on the watchlist.


Valduk, Keeper of the Flame - Someone mentioned that this card baited them into building an aggro deck in red, I usually explicitly state that Red is not really the primary Aggro color in the cube, but this (and some other red aggressive cards that I consider "quintessential to a red draft experience" pushed them in that direction and then they were disappointed, so I may end up cutting the package if it turns out to be a trap/dead card.

Slagstorm - Limiting the number of direct damage cards in Red, this was supposed to be Sweltering Suns but I didn't have one easily accessible, I put in an order for one but am not sure which would be better.

Madcap Skills - This is the aforementioned card that baited them into a red aggro strategy, so might need to be cut as a package with Valduk.


Narnam Renegade - Tends to be awkward to play early game, and people seem to think the deathtouch isn't good enough to play it without the trigger.

Hunting Moa - This might become Druid's Familiar, it drops some support for the Counters archetype, but might just be a better/more efficient card.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Maybe this is the replacement for Narnham Renegade you're looking for? It certainly fits both the resilience and +1/+1 counter theme, though it might be too unexciting if green is not in on the sacrifice theme.

Also, you have red as an aggro deck in two color combinations, maybe if it feels like a trap you actually need to add some more aggressive tools that lend themselves well to the BR and the RG color combinations? Or, alternatively, aggro shouldn't be an archetype in those color combinations?

I would also look at your typical spells matter deck. Is it a slow deck or a fast deck? From the low number of counterspells, flipping a Delver and riding it to victory seems like it's not supposed to work. Maybe you can replace it with the spells matter card that has been most sastisfying in my cube?



As for Pack Rat, if you're players are not discarding every card in their hand to make more rats (at the end of their opponent's turn to avoid wraths), they're doing it wrong. It's hard for me to view this card as anything else than game ruining bullshit, and I can't think of a format I would want to run where this is philosophically the right card for the job. At the end of the day, Pack Rat is simply a removal check. If you have it, great, if you don't, well shit, you are going to face a million million/million rats soon. Good luck with that. I know it's not unbeatable, but there's also a reason Pack Rat was a single card archetype in Return to Ravnica limited that was practically unbeatable if you drew the card.

 

[sigh]

There's nothing about Valduk or Madcap Skills that screams "quintessential" to me, so yes I would cut those if your red isn't aggressive.

Just like Onder noted, though, you do say two of your Red color combinations list "agro" in your OP. So overall I'd either focus more on that, or try to divest completely.

Zurgo Bellstriker and lightning berserker also seem a little out of place if you are trying to get out of agro in red.

If I might ask, what is the primary color in Aggro supposed to be? Kinda seems like maybe or ? Don't really see many clear signals into a "traditional" agro deck throughout the cube. That's also fine, but if this is your desire, I'd be very careful to remove undue hints throughout all the colors. In general, I'd be cautious of what exactly you consider "quintessential" if you are set on building a unique experience.

 

[Liefbread]

Maybe this is the replacement for Narnham Renegade you're looking for? It certainly fits both the resilience and +1/+1 counter theme, though it might be too unexciting if green is not in on the sacrifice theme.

Also, you have red as an aggro deck in two color combinations, maybe if it feels like a trap you actually need to add some more aggressive tools that lend themselves well to the BR and the RG color combinations? Or, alternatively, aggro shouldn't be an archetype in those color combinations?

I would also look at your typical spells matter deck. Is it a slow deck or a fast deck? From the low number of counterspells, flipping a Delver and riding it to victory seems like it's not supposed to work. Maybe you can replace it with the spells matter card that has been most sastisfying in my cube?



As for Pack Rat, if you're players are not discarding every card in their hand to make more rats (at the end of their opponent's turn to avoid wraths), they're doing it wrong. It's hard for me to view this card as anything else than game ruining bullshit, and I can't think of a format I would want to run where this is philosophically the right card for the job. At the end of the day, Pack Rat is simply a removal check. If you have it, great, if you don't, well shit, you are going to face a million million/million rats soon. Good luck with that. I know it's not unbeatable, but there's also a reason Pack Rat was a single card archetype in Return to Ravnica limited that was practically unbeatable if you drew the card.

I did have a Young Wolf sitting in my maybe box for a couple months, that's a reasonable pick. Green has some tools for the sacrifice deck, I tried to bleed most of the most prominent archetypes (Aristocrats, Counters, Tokens) into every color to some degree that way there was more flexibility with what enablers were available for those primary archetypes (which has thus far worked fairly well, and if I had better fixing would probably inspire a lot of 3-color decks).

In my head there should be enough support for Red to be aggressive for the early game and curve out into a good midrange deck with strong threats to close things out, but I think people are looking for a more traditional red deck that stays very low to the ground (which honestly most of the cube is low to the ground) and then finishes with burn, when most of the burn in this cube is creature targeted (intentionally). Red should play as more of a tempo/midrange deck, I may need to listen to you and Sigh, and either invest a bit more or cut it as an archetype, I feel like RG Aggro is a viable deck, I've seen it, and lost to it with otherwise good decks, but it really is looking to finish the game with creatures or things in the category of Berserk or Ghor Clan Rampager, and less with a flurry of Searing Spears and Lightning Bolts.

I love Rise from the Tides, it's a great reward for the spells deck and I could easily see it taking Delvers place, I might need to take a look and smooth out the curve, but I could be very happy with that.

and I can see cutting Pack Rat, it's either game-winning or just really poor.

If I might ask, what is the primary color in Aggro supposed to be? Kinda seems like maybe or ? Don't really see many clear signals into a "traditional" agro deck throughout the cube. That's also fine, but if this is your desire, I'd be very careful to remove undue hints throughout all the colors. In general, I'd be cautious of what exactly you consider "quintessential" if you are set on building a unique experience.

I would say that Green is the primary aggressive color, with black and red being good supporting secondaries. But you might be right, Aggro might just not be a strong archetype in the cube, most of the decks are very low to the ground in general, and I think the layout of the cube favors a tempo or a midrange style deck. I'm OK with that, again, in a lot of ways I'm trying to make this more of a feel-good cube, and I think losing to Aggro can be frustrating experience since it (ideally) provides you very little opportunity to react or change your course to stop them (especially in limited where you just might genuinely not have the tools to do so). I'll have to sit on it and think about what I should and should not be prioritizing.

As for cards that I consider "quintessential" or just very compelling/draft format defining for their time/color I'd say...
: Mother of Runes, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (this one is probably just personal bias), Fiend Hunter, Restoration Angel, Cloudgoat Ranger, Swords to Plowshares, Wrath of God, Pacifism, O-Ring
: Delver of Secrets (this is probably more indicative of my favorite draft format at this point), Frost Lynx, Mist Raven, Brainstorm, Daze, Gush, Binding Grasp (Just in that it is a mind control, not this card specifically)
: Carrion Feeder/Gravecrawler (again, probably a personal thing, but it tends to find its way into any cube I make), Pack Rat (again, this is probably more warping or damning than it's worth), Desecration Demon (just in having a 4 drop big demon with condition), Vendetta, Dismember, Animate Dead, Stab Wound.
: Monastery Swiftspear, Flametongue Kavu, Purphuros, God of the Forge, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Lightning Bolt, Faithless Looting, Madcap Skills.
: Birds of Paradise, Experiment One, Eternal Witness, Reclamation Sage, Berserk, (Assorted Fight Cards), Green Sun's Zenith, Rancor, Birthing Pod (this one really probably SHOULD be cut, I've genuinely never seen it played)

These are the cards that when you say "Cube" they jump into my head as most likely auto includes that should have some amount of support. There are others that I have at this point cut. Not sure if this preconception adds more or takes away more from the cube.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Interestingly, I cut most of those cards from my cube for being too efficient as I slowly but surely started cultivating synergy over raw power

 

[Liefbread]

Interestingly, I cut most of those cards from my cube for being too efficient as I slowly but surely started cultivating synergy over raw power

I really like how you do doubles of all the "archetype defining/rounding" cards in your cube, and I might cut some of the too efficient cards for a similar approach. It might also just be worthwhile for me to cut some of my mono colored sections down a bit and put some more power into multi-colored to offer more of a push in the "Hey you want to go Aggro, you'll probably be in 2-colors" direction. 360 seems like such a hard number to manage, but I love that every card will be drafted and that I can run archetypes like Rogues because every single card will be seen.

 

[sigh]

I would consider almost zero of those quintessential, and many not overly evocative of cube either. Even something like Lightning Bolt, one of the most recognizable cards in MTG, is not an auto-include. Many formats here don't run it.

 

[Liefbread]

Maybe in my V2 update I should sit down and rethink what I want each color combo's 3 Archetypes to be, and how I can best support those. My initial thought is pretty similar to what I have now, with one "primary" archetype and 2 "secondary" ones.

: Artifacts, Flicker/Effect Recursion, Tempo (aggressive)
: Rogues (tempo), ???, Spells
: Control/Dragons, Aristocrats, Aggro
: Aggro/Stompy, +1/+1 Counters, ???
: Tokens, Flicker/ETB, +1/+1 Counters
: Aristocrats, Recursion, Tokens
: +1/+1 Counters, ???, ???
: ???, +1/+1 Counters, Tempo
: Spells, Control, Tempo
: Combat Control, Big Threats, Combo
But there are definitely some holes that can be shored up... I'd also like each "primary role" to be unique for the different color combos, so that there's effectively 10 "primary archetypes" with dips into supporting one another's other archetypes.
Noting that the core features of each color is respectively (or at least currently)
: Artifact Synergies, Resilient Threats, Tokens
: Spells/Prowess, Card Draw, Tempo
: Removal, Recursion, Value Sacrifice
: Creature Damage, ETB Damage/Effects (Impact Tremors/Purphuros), "Wants to be Attacked"
: Creature/Board Growth, Minor Ramp, Combat Tricks/Artifact Opposition (?)

 

[Liefbread]

I've sat down and given this some thought.

The suite of changes I'm considering below is what I've come up with, the goals are to clarify themes, give UG a more unique stand-alone Archetype, and remove some of the "fodder" cards that were more of a clumsy attempt at supporting other Archetypes previously, and tightening up the mono color columns by one to open up some slots for another set of lands (shocks in this case). I'll go more in-depth below.

- Removing cards that felt clunky or like they didn't really have a purpose. Duantless Bodyguard was just awkward for reasons noted earlier, Mardu Hordechief is fine but bad for what he does, nobody seems to value having graveyard hate cards, especially when they're single shot like Angel of Finality, and there's not as much recursion that it really demands her existence. In 2 Glint-Sleeve Artisans to help with the 3-drop slot and fill out the tokens/artifact synergies, I considered a 2nd blade splicer but thought it might be too strong.
Out:
Dauntless Bodyguard
Mardu Hordechief
Angel of Finality

In:
Glint-Sleeve Artisan
Glint-Sleeve Artisan

- Removing some of the less effective cards in the color, and lending that space to create a definitive flicker identity for UG.
Out:
Delver of Secrets
Chasm Skulker
Twisted Image
Thieves Fortune
Unstable Mutation
Fact or Fiction
Aether Tradewinds

In:
Pestermite (Note: This is the 2nd Pestermite in U, this is to help both the Rogues archetype in UB and the Flicker Archetype in UG, I'm following a similar concept to Onderzeboot with doing doubles of individual creatures who help smooth out multiple archetypes/define color roles.)
Essence Flux
Ghostly Flicker
Release to the Wind
Voidwalk
Rise from the Tides

- Removing one of the weaker rogues to allow for better fixing, Bontu is getting replaced by the 2nd "archetypal card" he's just really hard to deal with and good even when he's not attacking, and too good when he is. I considered making this another Blood Artist to really PUSH the Aristocrats Archetype, but it's already one of the best archetypes in the cube, and I really don't think it needs the help, even with the removal of an enabler (in Bontu)

Out:
Vampire Cutthroat
Bontu the Glorified

In:
Glint-Sleeve Siphoner

- More aggressively sculpting out Aggro as an archetype from Red by removing cards that hinted at it. Adding more support for the more "aggressive" control deck, and giving it a second copy of Soul-Scar Mage as a defining card, helping both the removal be more effective/efficient and aiding the UR Spells deck with another Prowess body/Wizard. Adding a couple more Artifact Synergy cards to help with an Artifact Synergy Subtheme/Finisher for a more aggressive deck (if desired)
Out:
Valduk, Keeper of the Flame
Consuming Fervor
Madcap Skills
Zurgo Bellstriker
Lightning Berserker
Falkenrath Exterminator
Target Minotaur

In:
Collective Defiance
Dismissive Pyromancer
Fiery Impulse
Embersmith
Atog
Soul-Scar Mage

- Green loses out on some of the more mediocre token-focused cards that felt really forced and rarely saw play, as well as some of the higher drop cards that weren't doing what I hoped for them to do, and Rhonas because again I think the gods who are not enchantments are incredibly hard to deal with in certain colors, and now every color should have some way to deal with the majority of the "less intractable" cards in the cube. In exchange Green gets support for a flicker archetype in UG, in the form of Nest Invader, and Acidic Slime, as well as some bonus with Druid's Familiar just being a generally good midrange-beatdown card, and Whisperwood Elemental giving value on Morph Flickers.
They also get an additional Experiment One to support aggressive low to the ground token synergy strategies.

Out:
Narnam Renegade
Scrounging Bandar
Strangleroot Geist
Rhonas the Indomnitable
Ivy-Lane Denizen
Vizier of the Menagerie

In:
Experiment One
Nest Invader
Druid's Familiar
Acidic Slime
Whisperwood Elemental

- Colorless drops the Myr Dorks... the fixing isn't worth the cost, and Galvanizer was just a bad idea, adding "myr tribal" was a cute concept but I think the execution was just not reasonable in a singleton cube which mine purported to be before this most recent change. In goes AA and MM to support multiple Archetypes (Dragons, Myrs (those left in the cube), and Rogues!), Galvanic Juggernaut just wasn't good enough to make it into most decks, so, out it goes for the next announcement.
Out:
Copper Myr
Gold Myr
Iron Myr
Leaden Myr
Silver Myr
Myr Galvanizer
Galvanic Juggernaut

In:
Adaptive Automoton
Metallic Mimic

10 Slots Opened up!
Shockland Cycle In - This should help with some of the concerns people had about the manabase and the checklands. I considered the various Tapland cycles, but I don't want to mess with custom cards, and with no Enemy land-type cycle to balance out the Battle or Cycle lands it just didn't make sense, so, we're going to bite the bullet and put together a trade for the Shocks.

I'd like to hear thoughts on this change/plan. If it all works out the way I'm hoping things should resolve as noted below.

: Artifacts, Flicker/Effect Recursion
: Rogues (tempo), Control (spells focus)
: Control/Dragons, Aristocrats
: Stompy/Aggro, +1/+1 Counters/Tempo Bent
: Tokens, +1/+1 Counters Matter
: Aristocrats, Heavy Removal
: +1/+1 Counters, Aristocrats (Recursion Bent)
: Flicker, +1/+1 Counters
: Spells, Tempo/Combo
: Combat Control, Artifacts

 

[Liefbread]

Forgot I would probably need to update multi-colored options for the big 2.0 update too.


Out:
Geist of Saint Traft (this one kind of hurts, just because I love that he's a Cleric for the interaction with Sword of DnD)
Aven Mimeomancer

In:
Ethersworn Shieldmage
Glassdust Hulk

- No Changes

- No Changes (although I'm keeping my eye on Olivia, as she may end up becoming a removal spell instead)

- No Changes (keeping an eye on Grand Warlord Radha, if she's not particularly good or useful she may get bopped)

- No Changes (considering Kitchen Finks out, Armada Wurm in)

- No Changes

- No Changes


Out:
Gilder Bairn
Lorescale Coatl

In:
Coiling Oracle
Prime-Speaker Zegana

- No Changes


Out:
Intimidation Bolt

In:
Flamewright

 

[Chris Taylor]

Cute as the cleric interaction is, geist of st traft isn't really blocking

 

[Liefbread]

Last cube draft before the above updates are going in. Unfortunately it was a 6-man but it was still a blast and the decks were strong.

Interesting board state of the night.

Spoiler

My Deck (U/B Rogues/Tempo.... You'll note the awkward card choices, you'll also note later on that someone else was forcing the same archetype)

Spoiler

RG Aggro

Spoiler

RW Control

Spoiler

UW Midrange (1st place winner)

Spoiler

Mono Green Counters

Spoiler

The other UB "Rogues" deck (more of a control deck)

Spoiler

Over all it felt like there was a plethora of support for everything despite people overlapping archetypes, a lot. The UB Rogues thing got hinky and we both ended up with somewhat mediocre UB Tempo decks (which was fine)

Looking forward to the big changes coming up, the Myrs felt clunky and largely awkward. The RG aggro player complained that there was too much life-gain available in the cube and was frustrated that he lost to the UW Midrange, but it seemed very reasonable for him to lose to a deck built around life-gain... Given that it was built to sustain.

I should have photographed everyone's draft pools as well, but neglected to do so.

 

[Rowan_CB]

Looks like a blast!

Love that the winner had what could fairly be considered to be a polymorph deck!

You don't ever want one of your players to leave frustrated, and it's definitely a good idea to make sure that, if you are signalling an aggro deck in your cube, that deck is viable. That said, I'd find it hard to take the complaints of a drafter who puts 9 4+ drops in his aggro deck seriously!

Giving that guy a hard time aside, it is worth looking into whether his deck was so high curve on creatures because he misbuilt/drafted, or if he started drafting an aggro deck, couldn't find the pieces, so ended up jamming in all the top-of-the-curve types.

 

[Liefbread]

It's probably worth me noting that he came in 2nd and that was the only match he lost. His deck was pretty strong and he definitely had other good/lower to the ground options in his pool. He was being a bit silly about the whole thing.

 

[Liefbread]

Update: Ran the changes by the group and they seem to be excited/in agreement, have most of the cards together, put in an order for the shocks I was missing, looking to do a version 2.0 draft in the next week or so

Some notes on what we do for our full version drafts.
Instead of $5 entry (all paid out in fabulous cash money prizes) like we normally do for our cubing (keeps some stakes so people are incentivized to play through) we up the entry to $10, and 1st place gets a little trophy keychain with a graphic for the cube, and gets to have their deck name (and their name) put on the cube storage box.

Looking forward to it!


I'll let y'all know how it goes.

 

[Kirblinx]

Love the writeup for the last draft. Look forward to reading the next one!

A couple of questions:

• Could we get a picture of the keychain next draft report? I am curious
• How was dispatch in the UW Midrange deck? Was it fine as just a tapper? Had only like 3 artifacts in the deck
• Did the RG deck ever get the two-card infinite combo off? It doen't seem entirely unfair, since both pieces cost 5. I just wondered if anyone felt jibbed by an infinite combo

 

[Liefbread]

Love the writeup for the last draft. Look forward to reading the next one!

A couple of questions:

• Could we get a picture of the keychain next draft report? I am curious
• How was dispatch in the UW Midrange deck? Was it fine as just a tapper? Had only like 3 artifacts in the deck
• Did the RG deck ever get the two-card infinite combo off? It doen't seem entirely unfair, since both pieces cost 5. I just wondered if anyone felt jibbed by an infinite combo

Sure!

• Spoiler

  
  This is the keychain from the previous event. The next one will probably take up the full circle instead of being a crown in the circle.
  
• Joe said dispatch was good more often than not. I think the increased artifact support will help make it better. It was my attempt at removing a bit of whites otherwise unconditional removal.
  
• Not this draft, but in our first draft someone did it with a UR spells deck and it was sweet. Nobody was unhappy with it, it's a fairly easily interrupted combo and there's little countermagic to protect it.
  

Apologies if the markup is messed up. Did it while I was at my parents on my phone.

 

[Liefbread]

Updates are officially on Cubetutor if anybody feels like checking them out! I'm looking to schedule my next "big" cube draft within the following 2 weeks if anybody is in central NJ and wants to see the cube

In other news, my friendly neighborhood carpenter also finished the box for the cube! Fits 360 cards, + lots of tokens + all the basic lands + some wiggle room for when my cubemajigs packs come in.