General Major change to Standard: Cards rotate slower

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Gotta love it when it's time for the rotation schedule to rotate out. How long has this one been around, five years?
I mean, Standard has effectively spanned 2 years of products for the longest of times, there just have been different ways to determine which sets where legal when. Going to three years is a really impactful change, and one that gives cards a longer lifespan! Thumbs up :)
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I hope it helps! As someone who dislikes a lot of higher power formats (Look I don't like combo, I don't like small games. That's like, 90% of magic GONE) I look to standard a lot for inspiration.

If it's better, that's great!
Hopefully this doesn't just mean that Fable of the Mirror Breaker got a new lease on life and nothing else changes. We know that card is sweet, can we maybe find out about some other cards that are sweet?
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
You know I'm probably overstating this, I've had some real negative feelings about magic recently, I'm gonna check myself.

I get big and small games have their draws.
Big games at their worst are like EDH, there's 30,000 game objects in play and none of them matter because the only way the game stops is via Thoracle or some infinite.
Small games at their worst are a single, unflipped delver whittling someone down while the only other permanent in play is a wasteland. It's unclear who controls the wasteland, and it doesn't matter.

Neither of these are representative of magic as a whole.
 
I actually wish they could have stuck to their previous plan of having the same number of sets in Standard all the time by way of rotating one out every time one rotates in. I like more rotations since it provides more shakeups to allow different decks to emerge.

My preferences would just make a lot of people mad, though. I think it would be great if they would ban powerful cards more often after they have their day in the sun. When you ban something, you're effectively unbanning something else that now has a chance to be in a competitive deck.

(Rotations and bannings are the same thing.)
 
Yeah, I'm not very surprised by them having the wrong takeaway for why Standard has flopped in paper the last few years. Forsythe had a tweet months back that I saw in a group chat where it seemed like he was legitimately confused as to why Paper had died and that's a terrible sign for the braintrust behind the health of this game. Unless you've been under a rock, it's pretty obvious that it's way deeper than the brief overview they touched upon in this article (also, why would you release a plan piece by piece like this?). COVID definitely had an impact, that's undeniable, but Standard had been dying a slow death before that for a long while.

It's not rotation that was the issue, it's the fact that there was zero incentive to playing paper Standard. They killed the competitive circuit and structure for any people who were interested in that aspect by making it super convoluted and also just outright removing big GPs and whatnot (which was a major reason why Standard thrived). They destroyed any interest people had in competitive play via shelving the Pro Tour which created a domino effect of killing off GPs and Standard FNMs and even beyond that something like the SCG Circuit which relied upon the format to thrive. They had that stretch where they banned a different card like every other set which killed player interest in actively following or investing in the format; turns out people don't like losing money, who knew?

Most egregiously they had a few pre-emptive bans down the line which were bizarre and then also ramped up power to an unhealthy level and tried course correcting each time by banning a format staple. That's obviously not going to sit well with people who spent real money in keeping up and they'll just move onto to something else for entertainment. Every new pushed card forces players to pick them up to compete with the best decks and then if they're too powerful they just eat a ban hammer down the line. Why would you ever think that this would NOT be a negative towards player retention? Feels like you didn't need hindsight for that one.

And since then they have NOT re-incentivized players in any way to revisit this dumpster fire. Hell, they don't even give half decent promos anymore for FNM participation. I still remember the summer they had Path to Exile and Serum Visions which were small incentives to stop by on a Friday to draft or play Standard. Fatal Push was another one during Ixalan as well. Even GPs used to be a fun experience back in the day with a main event flameout because of all the goodies you'd get or being able to stop by a venue to experience the side events and visit shops. Most Magic players realize at some point that if they're not fully invested in the competitive aspect, either via weekly FNMs or the occasional local PTQ/Gameday, that it's just not worth it to keep a Standard deck ready to go in paper. All 3 game stores in my area that used to be thriving places to play Standard back from like '13-18 with 20+ players weekly all slowly died out and it was mostly due to players getting disillusioned with bannings. And this was far before the shift to Commander as their go-to format. WoTC really can't find it in their budget to promote these aspects of the game that primarily serve to anchor their billion dollar enterprise? Who is driving this clown car?

It's obvious that Magic thrived when they pushed various formats because it lifted up a whole ecosystem that includes LGS's, a competitive circuit for grinders, AND alternatives like Commander and kitchen table play. The strength of Magic was the various ways in which you could interact with the game. Don't like Standard? Here's Commander. Not a fan of multiplayer? Try out Draft. Draft boring you but Standard not your thing? Save up and get in Modern where your deck is was safe. I don't know how you miss this and then kill it all off without thinking of the repercussions.

I just don't understand the decisions they make with this game nowadays. For the past 5 years it's all felt so shortsighted and wholly avoidable. As someone who used to eagerly follow along everything Magic I've become solely an EDH player and Cube curator. And most of the time I'd rather be messing around with my other hobbies than playing Magic. I'll probably never revisit the highs of weekly Magic with friends during my college days, but I never expected to be this disillusioned with the game so soon. I used to really love Magic but I just don't anymore with these casual missteps from incompetent leadership who don't seem to understand their own product.
 
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I think it would be great if they would ban powerful cards more often after they have their day in the sun. When you ban something, you're effectively unbanning something else that now has a chance to be in a competitive deck.

(Rotations and bannings are the same thing.)

That’s interesting. You are probably in a minority as you also said yourself. History has proven that the playerbase do not respond positive to their cards being banned. I personally quit Duel Commander back when Zur and Oath was banned because those were my decks. I have later joined the format again because Zur was unbanned. We have seen Standard totally die after the super rotation and all the bannings they did few years ago.

Ignoring the players..from a format perspective I think it is intetesting to have a new card get banned every month. Maybe only temporarily banned (stasised?)

Players would be semi happy if each banned card could be handed over to a local game store for a refund of the card’s maximum value. Don’t see Wizards doing this though.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, I'm not very surprised by them having the wrong takeaway for why Standard has flopped in paper the last few years.

...

I used to really love Magic but I just don't anymore with these casual missteps from incompetent leadership who don't seem to understand their own product.
This was an incredibly comprehensive post. Not sure I share the exact same sentiment, but well put shamizy!
 
yeah the problem with "bans of the week" or similar systems is that any given player's card pool is extremely inelastic.

i have seen this system in digital card games where it's very easy and FREE to have multiple tier 1-2 decks ready to go, and in that context it is a very fun way to have a new meta every week, but paper magic decks are a mortgage payment a piece.

and no, deck rental/trading services are not a counter to this problem, because that market is niche to the extreme high end of the engagement spectrum, not the FNM/small tourney weekender crowd that makes up the vast majority of what COULD BE the standard playerbase.
 
I feel bad for Standard players that are going to have to deal with the same design mistakes for 3 years instead of 2.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
The unfortunate answer? It is shortsighted, because it's focused on maximizing shareholder equity and not the long-term health of the game.
I mean, there's a reason people call the parent company Ha$bro. If anyone doubted their motivations, surely the price point of Magic's 30 year anniversary edition and the huge D&D OGL debacle should inform you otherwise...
 
Or just run proxies since almost all Magic games are now casual kitchen table games and no longer sanctioned Standard Friday Night Magic.

If Wizards want the players to stop proxying, they just have to make Standard attractive again so the local game stores want to host sanctioned events.
 
That’s interesting. You are probably in a minority as you also said yourself. History has proven that the playerbase do not respond positive to their cards being banned. I personally quit Duel Commander back when Zur and Oath was banned because those were my decks. I have later joined the format again because Zur was unbanned. We have seen Standard totally die after the super rotation and all the bannings they did few years ago.

Ignoring the players..from a format perspective I think it is intetesting to have a new card get banned every month. Maybe only temporarily banned (stasised?)

Players would be semi happy if each banned card could be handed over to a local game store for a refund of the card’s maximum value. Don’t see Wizards doing this though.
Of course you're completely right. Players hate it when they invest in cards and then the cards get banned, and I can't blame them. I'm not investing chunks of cash into a competitive deck - rather, I have played MTGO / MTGA and experimented with a variety of decks, and if something gets banned, it's not devastating to me. I'll just play something else.

My biggest gripe with Standard is that there are always a handful of cards that are pushed too much at the top end. I'd rather see fewer power outliers so we can have more decks that compete. Stuff like Luminarch Aspirant gets pretty old after you see it over and over again for two years. The counter is always that if you ban the top cards, then there will still be another card that's the most powerful card in the format, but overall I'd like to see less of a skewed power distribution so more cards can get into the mix. One Luminarch Aspirant invalidates a whole bunch of other cards. To be fair, Standard has had a good level of variety for the last few years, and I'll always be annoyed about the decks that I lose to repeatedly regardless of what they do. It's fine.
 
i have seen this system in digital card games where it's very easy and FREE to have multiple tier 1-2 decks ready to go, and in that context it is a very fun way to have a new meta every week, but paper magic decks are a mortgage payment a piece.
they tried this with "the suspension list" for Arena Historic

in practice I don't think anything ever came off the suspension list in the "now legal again" direction and I don't think anything remained on it for more than a few weeks rather than just getting a formal ban
 

landofMordor

Administrator
Hopefully this doesn't just mean that Fable of the Mirror Breaker got a new lease on life and nothing else changes.
I don't think this will happen. Imagine that we were already on a 3-year rotation, so that AFR-ZNR had never rotated out. Sure, maybe exactly Fable will still need a ban, but Invoke Despair fares poorly against Esika's Chariot; Cut Down can't answer Werewolf Pack Leader; you have a whole year's worth of gold power outliers, 90% of which can't be cast in the same deck as Bloodtithe Harvester...

Or, in Cube terms -- sure, you can ban Wrenn and Six, or you can saturate your format with Eliminate, or you can just give your drafters reasons to draft other color pairs.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I don't think this will happen. Imagine that we were already on a 3-year rotation, so that AFR-ZNR had never rotated out. Sure, maybe exactly Fable will still need a ban, but Invoke Despair fares poorly against Esika's Chariot; Cut Down can't answer Werewolf Pack Leader; you have a whole year's worth of gold power outliers, 90% of which can't be cast in the same deck as Bloodtithe Harvester...

Or, in Cube terms -- sure, you can ban Wrenn and Six, or you can saturate your format with Eliminate, or you can just give your drafters reasons to draft other color pairs.
Absolutely! I don't forsee anything getting banned, just if Fable continues to be the best thing, and whatever comes out next set is just not that great (or worse, is red or black *GASP*) then perhaps this might get stale.

It remains to be seen.
 
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