Midrange Cube 3.0/ Backup 1.0

Gladiatorw07f

Gladiatorw07f

These are my first 2 attempts at cubes

Primary form: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/51700 (its really rough still)
Back up form: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/69158

Within the cubes the archetypes presented are as follows (along with a few cards per archetype for support):

Azorius: Classical Control: Spell queller, grand abolisher, force of will

Dimir: Discard and mill: Hymn to Touroch, mind grind, Extract from Darkness

Rakdos: AGGRO FONDUE PARTY: Vial Smasher the Fierce, Vexing Devil, BloodSoaked Champion

Gruul: Ramp & Smash: "Omnath, Locust of Rage", Birds of Paradice, Utvara Hellkite

Selesnya: Tokens and Life gain: "Trostani, Selesnya's Voice", Twilight Drover, Thragtusk

Boros: Combo Aggro: "Aurellia, Warleader", Legion Loyalist, Elite Inquisitor

Orzhov: Remove and Return: Vindicate, Obzedat's Aid, Dread Return, Swords To Plowshares

Golgari: Graveyard Shenanigans: Grave Pact, "Savra, Golgari Queen", "Jarad, Golgari Litch Lord"

Simic: Counters and Control: gilder Bairn, Prime Speaker Zengana, "Elzuri, Claw of Progress"

Izzet: Spell Spam: Grape Shot, Goblin Electromancer, Twincast

the primary form is singleton and needs to get its power band harshly narrowed, while i have yet to get any feed back on how wide or narrow the power band on the non singleton form's power band is.

Right now the goals are:

Provide a mid range power cube with a select number of late game bombs while still allowing an early agro deck to exist should it get drafted.

Sufficiently support all 10 archetypes as listed

Currently reach a healthy power band in both the original and non singleton cube

Allow the Artifacts to feel supplementary not necessary to decks.
 
Gladiatorw07f

Gladiatorw07f

after a few tries to get certain acrchetypes to show up on cubetutor, the rng has not been kind as green/black and blue/green are not showing up for me.
 
StormEntity

StormEntity

Hi there! I'm the redditor who referred you here. I'm glad you've joined the community! Feel free to chime in on any other threads too.

I'm looking now at your alternate, updated cube. You've really tightened up the power band a lot here, and it's an admirable change. There are still some questionable inclusions here (Mother of Runes is exceptionally powerful, especially to break singleton on). The Titans are all also very powerful and might take over games on their own (Grave Titan and Inferno Titan in particular).

You've done a good job taking off a lot of the top of your power level, but the big power band concern that remains is the bottom of your power band. There's still some real stinkers in this cube. Dismal Failure, Inaction Injunction, Leyline of Anticipation come to mind just in the blue section. Another piece of feedback I have regards cards like Mind Sculpt and Dampen Thought. I love the idea of a mill archetype, but these cards are extremely narrow and one can't play the mill deck without getting a critical density of them. At the same time, only one kind of deck will be interested in them. One way to help alleviate this issue is to make it so your cube has a greater range of decks that are interested in mill effects. The way I personally would solve this problem is to introduce cards that incentivize your drafters to put cards in their own graveyard (Laboratory Maniac, Living Death, Genesis...lots of cards that work this way) and also shift my mill suite toward cards that can mill either player, like Dream Twist. I know you've expressed that self mill isn't necessarily already one of your archetypes, but consider that by simply switching some of your existing mill cards to other, similar mill cards, you've opened up a whole new angle to your cube! It also plays nice with Necromancy, Dread Return, and Deep Analysis, giving each of them another dimension.

In addition, I'm glad you've taken the advice to break singleton to heart! It's an unnecessary restriction that holds back "traditional" cube design in a silly way. At the same time, though, I'm a little concerned by the extensive singleton breaking in this cube. It may be very well-suited to your approach of supporting a specific set of archetypes, but keep in mind that it will significantly impact the diversity of experience from one draft to the next. I'd imagine, just off the top of my head, that most people here at Riptide play duplicates of something like 5-10 cards in their cube--just the ones that provide unique and necessary effects. I personally try to break singleton only when I think it's necessary to support an archetype in my cube, since I find that to strike the right balance between the quality of each draft and diversity of experience from one draft to the next. I hope you found this feedback helpful!
 
StormEntity

StormEntity

Those all seem like great changes, I especially like Insidious Will with your Twincast theme. I'm pretty bored on this winter break Wednesday morning, so I think I'll go through your themes and see what kinds of cards I might like to fit in, or expand on some directions you might be interested in taking them.

Azorius Classical Control: Near and dear to my heart. In my experience, this archetype comes down to a few ingredients: efficient removal, card draw, and effective finishers. You've got a fair amount of efficient removal (Swords to Plowshares x2, Pacifism x2, Austere Command, double Wrath of God) but I think the amount and diversity here could be changed some. Maybe you could cut a Pacifism for a similar card like Temporal Isolation? Or one of your Plows could turn into Path to Exile, Condemn, or Oust. There are certainly also some white cards that I'm having trouble slotting into any of your stated archetypes and could be convenient cuts for more on-theme cards: Tandem Tactics, for instance, or True Conviction. I like the card draw suite in this cube; it seems powerful enough to support these kinds of control decks. I might look to change it up a bit though for the sake of diversity: some of your 2 mana Impulse effects could be changed into things like Think Twice (again, if you're interested in reducing the amount of duplicates in the cube). The second Fact or Fiction might be more interesting as a Careful Consideration, Stroke of Genius, or Tidings. I do like the finisher suite here: Sun Titan and Elesh Norn are nothing to joke about, and both have applications outside the ramp deck. Looking over at the blue section, Torrential Gearhulk is another nice inclusion.

Dimir Mill: something different and new! I'm not sure how much you've drafted this cube, but just how often does anyone actually get milled out? I suspect the answer is "not often" and so these mill cards might like a bit of extra support, or else they might like to be cut. One of the best ways to support mill, in my opinion, is through cards that work well either as part of a whole mill deck or as cards that (albeit slowly) can finish the game on their own in a control deck. Some great examples here are Grindclock and Nephalia Drownyard. Note that both are also good in self-mill decks!

Rakdos Aggro: Everything looks to be reasonable here, though aggro is not exactly where my expertise lies. Might I point you toward Alesha, who Smiles at Death and Feldon of the Third Path? They both do interesting stuff with, say, Weaponcraft Enthusiast, Tuktuk the Explorer, Liliana's Specter, and Phyrexian Rager in combination with Carrion Feeder. If you find yourself liking this path, Bone Shredder is also interesting. One thing I'd be keeping an eye on here (and in your white section!) is the concentration of CC two drops like Dragon Whisperer and Elite Inquisitor. These cards tend to be super cool, but are subtly really hard to cast and makes aggro tend to falter on mana.

Gruul Ramp Smash: Everything seems to be on the up and up here. There's a good amount of ramp and a good amount of smash. This is, however, a particular place where the power band could be tightened up significantly. Your green ramp targets are MUCH stronger than your red ones. So are your black, blue, and white ones. If you do want people to play Gruul Ramp Smash, you should think about juicing up your red ramp fatties and/or powering down the big creatures in other colors. Otherwise people will just want to use the green ramp to power out Elesh Norn, which it seems is not at all your intention. Balefire Dragon and Utvara Hellkite are both pretty weak; have you thought about Bogardan Hellkite or Soul of Shandalar?

Selesnya Tokens/Life Gain: You might consider diversifying here. Lots of the support for this archetype is tied up in duplicates of White Sun's Zenith, Righteous Confluence, Spectral Procession, and Blade Splicer, but there are tons of cards that fill those roles admirably! Check out Gather the Townsfolk, Scion of Vitu-Ghazi, Secure the Wastes, Increasing Devotion. In addition you might consider moving some of the support out of your creature section and into the spell section, where it'll play nice with your Twincast effects and perhaps Narset Transcendent, an add I'd really like to see to help support your "Spell Spam" archetype and branch it off a bit into white.

More to come in a bit, but this should give you something to chew on for now. Parting thought: have you considered cutting the size of the cube to 450 or 360 cards, or any other number? Often the extensive singleton breaking is a sign that you're having difficulty thinking of enough cards to add. If that's the case, no reason not to cut down to a smaller cube size!
 
Fulcrum

Fulcrum

StormEntity said:
Selesnya Tokens/Life Gain: You might consider diversifying here. Lots of the support for this archetype is tied up in duplicates of White Sun's Zenith, Righteous Confluence, Spectral Procession, and Blade Splicer, but there are tons of cards that fill those roles admirably! Check out Gather the Townsfolk, Scion of Vitu-Ghazi, Secure the Wastes, Increasing Devotion. In addition you might consider moving some of the support out of your creature section and into the spell section, where it'll play nice with your Twincast effects and perhaps Narset Transcendent, an add I'd really like to see to help support your "Spell Spam" archetype and branch it off a bit into white.
Click to expand...


Some nice white creatures that work well with the "Spell Spam" archetype include Seeker of the Way, Monastery Mentor, and Ojutai Exemplars. They tie nicely with the Izzet theme to make a Jeskai theme and plays well with all sorts of spell based token makers. Monastery Mentor and Battle Screech seem like a quick way to make a bunch of tokens.

StormEntity said:
More to come in a bit, but this should give you something to chew on for now. Parting thought: have you considered cutting the size of the cube to 450 or 360 cards, or any other number? Often the extensive singleton breaking is a sign that you're having difficulty thinking of enough cards to add. If that's the case, no reason not to cut down to a smaller cube size!
Click to expand...

The OP made a post in Cube Talk a few days ago and said that they want to support their entire playgroup that regularly hits 12 at the same time. Working on a larger cube seems like a really neat undertaking. So many options!
 
Gladiatorw07f

Gladiatorw07f

a few key notes: I am not supporting (directly) 3 color decks. so jeskai, abzan, ect are out. though i do like Monastery mentor, secure the wastes, and gather the towns folk.

Narset was cut from both forms of the cube due to oppression and thinning the herd of pw's. I find her in pretty much every format to be a super big I JUST WIN card.

I can get a phyrexian rager into the cube, and certainly shift some others into weaponcraft enthusiast

I can swap a swords to plowshares into a path to exile

I really like the draw flavors you proposed to swap the fact or fiction for i will have to really decide which is my cube's particular flavor.

grindclock violates one of my cube goals of being a card needed to a deck as an artifact rather than a supplement. so that is out. and i am not sure how i feel about dedicating extra land to a guild archetype.

I will probably look into changing out some of the cards for more color friendly 2 drop options. i just saw that 1/2 of all white 2 drops are CC cards.

Yes I AM BUILDING A CUBE FOR A PLAY GROUP OF 12. Thank you for mentioning this
 
sigh

sigh

12 is a huge playgroup! That's more people than my LGS attracts for FNM :p

How do you draft with that many? I'd imagine it's with 2 groups of 6? One table of 12 would be.... intense.

If it is two pods of 6, I think focusing on cross archetype support is even more important for your format, because each group only sees half the cube. This means drafters might need to find a Plan B if the defined color pair isn't working out properly. This would mean cards like Monastry mentor are very important, because if the Young Pyromancer isn't in group A, there's still a backup plan.

If you draft with one huge pod of 12, nvm all this :)
 
Gladiatorw07f

Gladiatorw07f

We draft 1 mass blob. But i get what you are saying, but my lgs sees around 16+ for FMN and 32+ for a prerelease. the EDH group is around 20 strong which is the group that would be cubing with me.
 
Gladiatorw07f

Gladiatorw07f

"Esper control by Universe34











this is a very interesting deck to look at for my cube because i have said that i am not directly supporting 3 colors in my cube but here is esper control in the cube.....Its doable as clearly shown here. You could likely do a bant theme though i am not certain what that would result in yet, Naya would certainly be a token agro deck, Jund would be Stompy, Grixis is more than certainly a hate and reanimation deck. as for the KTK colors: Jeskai would play off of the izzet theme, the Abzan colors would play off of orzhov, Sultai is looking like it may play off of dimir(?), Mardu is definitely looking like a boros and rakdos combo deck, With Temir coming with gruul and simic colors. This is all hypothetical though.
 
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