Modest equipment

Hi all,

I have a few equipment-related questions to run by the collective brain. The overarching question that animates the rest is whether it makes any sense to put a value Stoneforge Mystic in my cube when I eschew the classic targets for power-level considerations. That is, I do not run the swords, Batterskull, Jitte, and I recently cut Skullclamp. For reference, here is my cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/77247 (360 unpowered; no Upheaval, Jace TMS, or Grave Titan as a quick power level snapshot).

1. Should I include Stoneforge for value, without the major targets?

2. Do you all have any suggestions for equipment that make sense at my power level? I have been running Bonesplitter, Mortar Pod, and Swiftfoot Boots. (I know the last could be upgraded to Lightning Greaves; I just haven't bothered). I recently slotted in Helm of the Host from DOM to test it, and while it's undoubtedly clunky, my playgroup has been enjoying it, particularly in a UWx blink deck as another copy of Brago or Venser, effectively. We have only drafted the cube twice since I put Helm in there, but the tentative consensus is that people like it.

I have considered Grafted Wargear, but I feel as if it occupies similar space as Mortarpod, and I think I like the latter better, as it allows for saccing at instant speed. But maybe a Tokens deck or go-wide aggressive deck that doesn't care about Aristocrats effects would rather have Wargear. If Wargear is better, I imagine it replaces Mortarpod rather than supplements it in a 360 cube.

3. Do you all have any opinions about the other rare equipment from Dominaria: Blackblade Reforged or Forebear's Blade? How does the latter stack up against Loxodon Warhammer or Sword of Vengeance? The former seems like its effect is potentially powerful but not especially interesting.

4. Bonus question that is on entirely a different topic: I am currently running 40 lands with no utility lands at all (20 duals, 2x10 fetches). I don't want to run manlands like Celestial Colonnade, and I don't want anything too busted like Kessig Wolf Run. (At least I think it's busted. I was playing Standard when Wolf Run Ramp was killing everyone, and the only room for innovation was whether or not to splash Black or Blue.) I am sort of loathe to add more land, but I could see finding, say, five artifacts to cut in favor of some utility lands. Any thoughts on this topic or recommendations? I guess I should also say that I know the Riptide method calls for a separate land draft, which seems like a really cool idea, but I would prefer to keep the cube self-contained and to draft lands as usual.

Thank you for your insights and feedback!

 
1. Absolutely; a tutor + body is good regardless of the power level of the targets, assuming that the equipment is worth fetching in the context of the cube. There is the argument that tutors become better with a wider power band, but that doesn't doom Mystic from consideration.

2/3. I think Wargear would be fine alongside Mortarpod as Wargear can go into any aggro deck, while Mortarpod fills a more grindy/midrange role as a chump blocker in the vein of Perilous Myr. Your equipment suite could maybe use a larger pump effect and either Wargear or the Forebear's Blade mentioned later look good in that role. I've never used the other ones so can't really speak on those, but my impression of Warhammer is quite swingy and not super interesting.

4. Grillo's Penny Pincher 2.0 runs a fair number of utility lands, if you haven't checked them out I'd give those a look. With all the fetches, I would highly recommend Hostile Desert which is the perfect creature-land imo. Aside from that, maybe try an Ash Barrens if you find yourself wanting to round out the section.
 
Here are two middling equipment I'm a big big fan of:



They are both really cool and strong, but their power level changes depending on the way you build your deck. Part of what makes a great cube card for me.
 
Thanks for the great feedback, all! I think I'll find room for Grafted Wargear. I like [user]ravnic[/user]'s suggestions, too. An earlier iteration of the cube had a Golgari/Sultai self-mill, graveyard matters theme, but the deck never really came together for anyone. Bonehoard would help that, but I doubt I have enough support for it anymore. Mask of Memory sounds great. I could use another discard effect for Reanimator/Welder, and that would help out Hostile Desert, too, which you all have convinced me to try. I'm also considering Captain's Claws and Runechanter's Pike, which have narrow application to particular archetypes. (Too narrow?) Even if I add three to five more equipment, I figure maybe it's not worth spending real dollars to buy Stoneforge, especially when at least some of these equipment don't particularly want to be in White decks.

[user]sigh[/user], I am also curious about your inclusion of Molten Vortex as flood insurance in aggro. I recently cut Sulfuric Vortex for power considerations, and Molten Vortex seems like an interesting replacement that is much more fair. Do you like it? Also, do you like Sandwurm Convergence? Is it broken or pretty fair? An enormous Bitterblossom with a Moat-like effect stapled on seems like a huge beating, but then it costs 6GG. I've been vaguely looking for a fun Green enchantment that's not, you know, Utopia Sprawl, Awakening Zone, etc.

I'm thinking of cutting one set of the six non-Green fetches (e.g. Scalding Tarn), and slotting in six utility lands. My logic is that fixing remains really good, but fixing is best in Green, where I'd like the multi-colored decks to be rooted, and where I have little touches of land matters (e.g. Avenger of Zendikar, Oracle of Mul Daya). So then I'd still have 40 lands: 20 duals, 14 fetches, and 6 utility. I'm thinking of trying the following lands:



Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
 
[user]sigh[/user], I am also curious about your inclusion of Molten Vortex as flood insurance in aggro. I recently cut Sulfuric Vortex for power considerations, and Molten Vortex seems like an interesting replacement that is much more fair. Do you like it? Also, do you like Sandwurm Convergence? Is it broken or pretty fair? An enormous Bitterblossom with a Moat-like effect stapled on seems like a huge beating, but then it costs 6GG. I've been vaguely looking for a fun Green enchantment that's not, you know, Utopia Sprawl, Awakening Zone, etc.
Do I Like Molten Vortex? I LOVE IT! So much I wrote an entire thread about an entire archetype based around it (and some other cards).

http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/start-your-engines-a-temur-card-advantage-deck.1276/

I need to point out that it has almost nothing to do with aggro, and indeed, I don't think that Molten Vortex et. al. should be included specifically for that role. I made a post later on in the above thread that talks about this. Molten Vortex and friends are long-game tools moreso than anything else.

http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads...ur-card-advantage-deck.1276/page-7#post-71534

Just below the post, Peter actually makes a good aggro suggestion with Hazoret
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
[user]sigh[/user], I am also curious about your inclusion of Molten Vortex as flood insurance in aggro. I recently cut Sulfuric Vortex for power considerations, and Molten Vortex seems like an interesting replacement that is much more fair. Do you like it? Also, do you like Sandwurm Convergence? Is it broken or pretty fair? An enormous Bitterblossom with a Moat-like effect stapled on seems like a huge beating, but then it costs 6GG. I've been vaguely looking for a fun Green enchantment that's not, you know, Utopia Sprawl, Awakening Zone, etc.

Since sigh touched on Molten Vortex, I am going to try and try an explain why I like Sandwurm Convergence.

It is indeed a fun green enchantment, but not in the same vein of those other cards you mentioned. It is pretty much designed to be a ramp reward and is remarkably good one. Unlike most other ramp outlets, which usually involves a large creature (Dragonlord Atarka, Avenger of Zendikar) and one removal spell usually finishes it up. Enchantments are much harder to deal with though, and it makes for an interesting game as to if they can outrace the slow influx of giant wurms. It is also a pretty slow burn, and doesn't impact the board to a drastic swing in your favour either, like some other ramp cards do. It is a decently strong card, but for the 8-mana investment, I haven't found another card with a similar cost:impact ratio.

The opposite moat effect is what makes the enchantment pretty strong though. It does cut off some decks though and while that may seem back-breaking and unfun, the amount of meme value you get from dropping an 8-drop counteracts this.

I've had a great time with the card. It hasn't dominated, it has won some otherwise unwinnable games, and lose some unloseable games, but it has also been stuck in hand unable to be cast a lot of others. I especially love it in my 5-colour durdle decks. A very unique win condition. If you want a sweet ramp target I would give it a go, you may be pleasantly surprised.
 
Yeah great summary from Kirb. One key point is "designed to be a ramp target". Another struggle with other ramp targets is they can generally be reanimated, while sandworm convergence has no consistent way to hit the field early in cube besides ramp. This makes it a great ramp finisher that the drafter has a higher chance of relying on finding in their packs.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Yes, I love everything about Sandwurm Convergence, and I don't see myself replacing it very soon. It gets picked up every time as well, people love playing it, myself included.
 
Yeah great summary from Kirb. One key point is "designed to be a ramp target". Another struggle with other ramp targets is they can generally be reanimated, while sandworm convergence has no consistent way to hit the field early in cube besides ramp. This makes it a great ramp finisher that the drafter has a higher chance of relying on finding in their packs.

When I ran Convergence, I ran it alongside stuff like Academy Rector and Show and Tell. It was good clean fun.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
It really bothers me, how the "fliers can't attack" ability on Sandwurm Convergence makes absolutely zero sense flavorwise. How can these wurms stop all the flying creature, but are not scaring anything that walks on the ground, where they are slithering around?

They're so big it's easier to snatch prey from the air. You know, pretty similar to how giraffes have an easier time eating leafs rather than grass. :D
 
No, I don't swallow it :D

It should've been "creatures with power 2 or less" or something like this to show that only the strong are brave enough to walk past this territory.
 
I totally vouch for hostile desert. That card has been a big hit over here, and I'm only running 15x fetches. There are plenty of other opportunities to drop lands into the GY; it creates a neat little mini-game that actually has a great payoff with the 3/4 body.

Cool info about Molten Vortex in the thread you posted, [user]sigh[/user]. And having read through it, I can totally see why you said earlier in this thread that there are lots of opportunities to get lands into the 'yard. My cube definitely doesn't have as many opportunities, though of course they exist (Faithless Looting, Compulsive Research, and so on). In fact, I put Boon Satyr back in for Ramunap Excavator, as the latter was unimpressive with just fetches to retrieve, even when he was put into decks that cared about landfall. I might put the Excavator back in when I add the smattering of utility lands that sac, but I am still not sure he'd be worth it, especially as I don't imagine that cards such as Buried Ruin are often going into Green decks. Crucible of Worlds makes more sense, but unless its price tumbles precipitously after the M19 reprint, I'm not considering the card.

Thank you all for the excellent précis of Sandwurm Convergence. It sounds like a heck of fun card to try in my cube. I will give it a whirl. Green is my only color that doesn't have a fun, build-around enchantment. My Green line-up is pretty boring in that regard. I know Sylvan Library is a card, but I just don't want to give Green access to such card selection and draw outside of the typical Green creature tutors such as Green Sun's Zenith. I was even loathe to put Harmonize in the cube, though I did, and it's fine.
 
I'd run the Excavator long before I ran Crucible of Worlds, tbh (even though I technically did have the crucible in first lol). But looking over your cube, I can see that the {G} section is taking a different direction than mine, so I don't fault the decision to just not run it at all.

A pretty cool equipment that I'd probably count as "modest", and has been well liked in my format since it came out:
 
It really bothers me, how the "fliers can't attack" ability on Sandwurm Convergence makes absolutely zero sense flavorwise. How can these wurms stop all the flying creature, but are not scaring anything that walks on the ground, where they are slithering around?


I figured it was that all the sandworms converging caused a sandstorm which made it impossible to fly.
 
Come now guys, it says right in the flavor text that they stop fliers because they are "cantankerous"

I mean, don't y'all scare birds away by yelling at them and being generally pissed off? Must work for the wurms too.
 
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