General Modular cube?

Hi everyone, my first post but I've lurked here on occasion.

Has anyone tried something like the Path to Cube podcast's Modular Cube?

Here's a description:

The concept of the Modular Cube is simple. The cube consists of a core set of cards (64 cards) and a number of modules (40 cards each.) To draft, the core is shuffled with 8 modules to get 384 cards which makes 3 packs of 16 cards per player. Modules are made to be selected at random and provide good gameplay with all other modules. Due to modules having only 40 cards, color balance has to be sacrificed in each module. Most modules contain only 2 or 3 colors. Therefore, most cube drafts where modules are selected at random have a color imbalance. The percentage of cards of each color is given to drafters before the draft starts to inform them of this imbalance and allow card evaluation when drafting to be adapted accordingly.

A cube list can be found here (filter by theme to see the different modules):
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/83926

I've read a thread regarding polycubing here from the past, which sounded similar but slightly different. Have there been any other notable discussions about formats like this here?

The appeal to me is the novelty of having new cards with some thematic cohesion that you can play with without having to redesign a whole new cube. Sometimes I want to explore the depths of a static format, but sometimes I just want to improvise and adapt. In some ways, it reminds me of the game Dominion (which I have been obsessed with). Or perhaps a release event. It also might be easier to balance 40 cards packages than the whole cube itself.

However, I'm skeptical that it all comes together smoothly. There simply can't be much playtesting of any particular combination. Things like color balance will vary between each setup (although if one drafts with less than every card in a traditional cube, this can happen there, too). Does announcing the modules that are included perform signposting or railroading?

If something like this were to work elegantly, that might be the holy grail for some novelty addicts like myself. But it seems like there would be years worth of theory (and math!) needed to get something like this to sing.
 
I totally get the appeal, but it just seems to be so much work and stress sorting everything and such. Just having 2 cubes seems like a better solution, if you want more than the themes you can support in your first.
 
Modular cubes are a really fun idea that I imagine are a nightmare to manage in practice. Even taking away the sorting and swapping headache ravnic mentions, I think the hardest thing would be to make sure that the cube is reasonably balanced no matter which configuration of modules you use. I also hate the idea of a cube being heavily color imbalanced unless that is a designed feature (e.g., I know some people around here run three-color cubes).

If I were to do something like this I think I might take a slightly different tact. I'm making this up as I type, but I might do something like this:
  • Establish a pool of cards big enough to accomodate all the different themes you might be interested in running (each "theme" would track with what would be a "module" in a modular cube.)
  • Give each card a series of scores based on how well it interacts with each theme (e.g., a card like Whirler Rogue would get, say, a score of 10 for the "artifact" theme, a 10 for the "tokens" theme, a 6 for the flyers "theme", an 8 for the "saboteurs" theme, and 0's for other themes it's not relevant to like +1/+1 counters, reanimator, lifegain, whatever.
  • Give each card a core score, ignoring synergy, which rates it based on its overall fit into the power level and curve considerations of the cube. There would have to be some testing and tweaking to determine how to best weight this against theme scores.
  • Before a given cube session, generate a list of "themes", randomly, or likely pseudo-randomly (with some modifiers to encourage each color to have a similar number of themes for which it is flagged as a primary or secondary color), and have a spreadsheet spit out the total scores for each card in the pool based on the selected themes.
  • Take the top 50 cards in each color (with hard caps on number of creatures and certain spots on the curve), top 3 in each guild*, top 40 colorless*, and add to a fixed 40 card pool of lands*, and voila!
* The selection of certain themes could trigger adjustments here, i.e., selecting the "artifact" theme could automatically boost the colorless slots, whereas a "multicolor" theme could boost the guild slots and incorporate additional fixing lands in the colorless section.
This doesn't solve the problem of having to separate and sort your cube each time, but it takes some extra steps to ensure better color balance, plus would just be a fun algorithmic exercise.
 
I have Innistrad and RoE set cubes and honestly the sorting into rarities is not that bad. With modules, I think you can put stickers on the inner sleeves and it should be similar. Magic players are efficient at sorting cards :)

The algorithmic approach sounds very appealing (and more similar to the polycubing idea), but would make the sorting problem even more difficult unless you were playing online. I wonder if it can be applied to the modules themselves? Maybe one approach could be to score each module, without trying to make them internally color balanced. Then, make the core set of cards assembled via algorithm to attempt to compensate, in addition to some selection of the modules that gives you a head start.

This might be more practical. The core cards will have wider options available. Another possibility is to design a few different core sets that are imbalanced color-wise so they can roughly re-balance a set of modules.

Another idea are just color specific packages. So you might assemble a cube by:
Pick core + x archetype modules in CT
Analyze color and cmc
Add some cards from the color packages to round things out

These cards from the color packages could have their own labels to ease sorting after.
 
I spent three years working with a modular cube, so I have many empirical findings to share.

First, about keeping the modules separated and sort them after shuffling. Yes, it’s a significant issue, but it can be overcome and is not a dealbreaker at all. I used tiny triangles of washi tape on the corner of the sleeves to differentiate the modules. Wife’s idea and execution, worked like a charm. See https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/too-many-lands.1521/page-4#post-64703 for photos.

On sorting, it’s some work afterwards, but a tiny minor thing compared to the time sunk looking for cards, sleeving, shuffling, read riptidelab.com, etc.

Now that the logistics are out of the way, let’s go on a journey.

v1: Monolithic good stuff cube.
I had a good-stuff 540 card cube. There were no supported archetypes, it was just aggro/control/midrange/tempo. That was quite fun.

v2: Monolithic with archetypes
After starting to frequent riptidelab.com - yes, this is all your fault - I saw that archetypes were an interesting place to take a cube and not all deck needed to be good stuff. I had some minor synergies, but the cube was just not good for Johnnies. So I took my good stuff cube and swapped out a lot of the weakest cards for cards to support archetypes. Abzan Falconer, Goblin Bombardment, Shrapnel Blast went in. Graveyard, reanimator, artifacts, enchantments, counters, sacrifice, spells, pretty much whatever went around here in 2015 was supported. This new 540, archetype-based cube was v2.

With v2, I ran a 5-player draft. It was a fucking trainwreck. My margins were designed to run a 8-player draft, that is, I was counting on ⅔ of each deck to be present in the draft. With 5 people drafting from a pool of 12, all decks were there, and no decks were really there. One guy to draft enchantments, couldn’t find enough, then moved into artifacts pivoting with Helm of the Gods, and ended up with a pile that was halfway between them. My sacrifice/tokens deck went great, because it was using cards from both archetypes, which were open, and they fed into each other creating enough consistency.

v3: 3 modules
Deeply disappointed, I obsessed for days about what went wrong and how to fix it. Literally obsessed, I couldn’t think of anything else. Turned out that maybe that design was fine at 8 players, but I never got more than 6 players at the time, and most often it was 4 or 5. With this new assumption, I designed the first iteration of a modular cube.

v3 had 3 modules of 180 cards each. At 5-7 players, I would have used 2 modules. At 8+ players, I’d use the full 3 modules. Each archetype was contained in a single one module, meaning it either showed up, or it didn’t.

Even before the first draft, I found the biggest disadvantage. v3 was a complete nightmare to manage. Look, I love working on my cube, but it was insane. I would have to move cards around modules and even the notes about changes were complicated. Balancing the proportion of mana curves, creature/non-creature proportions, artifact/enchantment removal, board wipes, etc. got extremely difficult. I spent a TON of time over months trying to get this version right. I ran a couple of v3 draft and it was alright, but not great. One issue was that the same deck was always there, and the same cards got played with each other. Another issue was that cross-polination among archetypes could be achieved within a module, but where to put the cards that made sense in archetypes not in the same module? Moreover, with 3 modules I had effectively 3 cubes (AB, AC, BC), which was not enough variety for me. It played more like three cubes, rather than a smooth modular cube.

v4: 4 modules
I rearranged the 3 modules into 4 modules of 135 cards to fix the “same deck always there” issue. This way, I had more like 10 combinations (AB, AC, AD, BC, BD, CD, ABC, ABD, ACD, BCD), which was a big improvement in variety. v4 was even harder to manage and didn’t address the cross-polination problem. In fact, it got worse.

The separation was:
Module A - WBG enchantments and WUR spells.
Module B - WU fliers, WRG tokens and BRG sacrifice.
Module C - UR artifacts, WRG counters, WB lifegain
Module D - UBRG madness, WUB reanimator, UBG graveyard, RG lands in graveyard

The way this version played is: if there were two modules, you either drafted a deck from one module, the other module, or a good stuff deck. It was like shuffling two tiny cubes together and playing two entangled subdrafts.

v5: Sattelite modules
Again, I obsessed for some time and found a new design. One main large 360 card module with the generic cards (that always felt loose on v3 and v4, they were moved around a lot to make space), all the cross-polinators, and some archetype cards that were good enough by themselves. 90 cards were moved from each module to the main module, leaving four 45 cards satellite modules. These four smaller modules contained cards that were not useful if a given archetype was not there: the specific payoffs and support cards that did not have the power level to be playable in a good stuff deck.

The cube became very flexible. I could draft [main], or [main + A], or [main + B + C]. The effect was that about half of the decks were just plain good stuff - mostly coming from the main module but also some playables from satellites. The other half of the decks were archetypes from the modules that were present.

This design was good. It played well. The modules mixed reasonably with the main module because of the cross-polinators. One stingy issue - not a huge one, but it was awkward - was that often two modules were included and there was a perfect cross-polinator for them in the main module, but it did not appear since only part of the main module was there

v5 fixed all the problems I had identified in v3 and v4, and I ran it for about two years, up until a few months ago. Some modules were more successful than others. B was great because all themes were connected, C and D were alright, A was too poisonous and weird and eventually became and energy module. I even started getting more creative and made module E - morph.

v5 did have one fatal flaw though, which I took long to understand and kept everyone but me from liking the cube at all. This is a flaw that I believe to be inherent of modular cubes and the biggest reason why they are not appropriate for all but the most hardcore groups.

People like familiarity. They like to learn and feel rewarded when they use that knowledge to get an advantage.

What v5 felt like, as well as v3 and v4 did before it, was not one cube, but a randomly generated cube. There were dozens of combinations, and each felt different. Even main + A and main + B were a world apart. Draft after draft, I was pulling the rug under my playgroup and they would have to start over and figure out the new environment. On the fly.

This made the cube a completely inaccessible format. In my perfect world, I’d be drafting with that group 2 times a week, and it would be fun after they learned what’s in each module, and how they interact. The modules would make replayability almost unlimited. In practice, we drafted every 2 months or so, and it took almost a year to see all the modules.

v6: Monolithic with archetypes again
This year, I went back to a monolithic cube. I took many steps to fix the issues in v2. More mainstream measures, such as reducing the size, increasing the number of picks for fewer players, and just giving up some some archetypes that were hard to weave with others.

I gave up on modular cubes.

Conclusion
Modular cubes are hardcore. They are much, much more time consuming to design, a bit more fiddly to setup and tear down, but this is all on you, cube owner.

The largest burden is really on your players, who will play in a difficult, ever-changing environment, where you will have a significant advantage upper-hand until you get an inhumane amount of drafts in.

If you have an experienced group that will play very frequently (say, every week), I recommend a satellite design like v5. One core module, as many as you want smaller modules that are either 100% in or 100% out.

PS
I went deeper than that. I had the concept of a rare module, rares inside the satellite modules, a simple module, a lands module. These features are left out because they are not relevant to the main message.
 
Thanks for taking the effort to write all that up.

From this and adabahns post on the other subforum, I get the impression that there is some interesting potential here but it might be beyond the practical capabilities of any one person and the habits of a typical group. It *does* seem like a digital implementation of something like this, with the opportunity to play many games and mine the data for refinement, might be possible. Maybe some day Maro will go crazy and attempt something like this..
 
Regarding familiarity that japahn mentioned, this made me think about power max cubes. Maybe one of the subtle reasons why they are popular are because the typical magic player tends to be familiar with the bluntly overpowered cards (and perhaps their effects are a little more straight forwards I.e. thragtusk vs say braids, cabal minion). These are the cards that get all the buzz in standard, start appearing in modern and maybe legacy decks, and are the utter bombs that people read about in their draft cheat sheets.

Some anecdotal evidence of this is that I have two limited simulation set drafting cubes, one for Innistrad and one for Rise of Eldrazi, and I have been surprised sometime about how much they can be unappealing to newer players who didn’t play limited during those formats. I think some people don’t really enjoy having to do card evaluation — on their own time but especially on the spot.

The irony is that even though many of the cards in an Mtgo cube will be immediately familiar, the way that the format is constructed has more trap card than a typical new-to-you limited format. In my opinion, at least.
 
your design looks nice for your established group

im always showing newbs the way. i prefer shorter methods. grab a slice of the cube and play at random. then we take like 10 minutes and grid pick or build a sealed deck. unless u draft quick im not drafting with you

sideboarding out whatever dominates often. half of the cards that have paragraphs of text

keep them in the back like mtgcubeblog does whoever wants can go and pick cards from that pile. the whole keeping the colors and a certain number is consuming
 
Top