Non-White Graveyard Party

Hi, I've been a lurker here for some time and just decided to upgrade my janky cube made out of cards in my collection (although on a pretty low budget).

A lot of the more interesting cards in my collection interacted with the graveyard in some way, so the cube naturaly lended itself to a graveyard theme: cards with delve, cards that cared about having cards in the graveyard (i.e. Nemesis of Mortals), cards that wanted to sacrifice other cards/be sacrificed, even a lot of the spell-matters cards interacted with the graveyard (i.e. Finale of Promise).

Now I have decided to upgrade it for the first time with new cards and I have a budget of around 10 euros to do so. The current list showing the cube with the upgrades I have in mind is here (the first iteration that appears in the blog is the one that only include cards in my collection): https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/61117215ba78bf103986bdd1

UPDATE: After some changes the cube is starting to look good achetype-wise! I'll leave the original concerns I had in this matter so I (and anyone) can look back and see the progress.

-Although I would've like all the color pairs to have a sub-theme, non of the black pairs seems to differ much from the mayor archetype of each trio.
Black being the most important graveyard and sac color is a strong enough identity.

-I have ramp as a Temur thing because black big creatures seem too sinergy -focused to work well in a generic ramp deck, but izzet can't work as a ramp combo, so it is more green + red or blue.
Now ramp is green/x.

-In the same vein, the only 2 color pair in grixis that seems to work fine as pure control is Dimir, but maybe there is some possible Izzet counterburn controly-ish deck or a slower Rakdos aristocrats variant.
Now control is blue/x. Hope that I've fixed most of the color identities problems.

-Maybe there is too much power unbalance between the top end in the colors? Aetherling and Prognostic Sphinx both seems very strong and both are in blue, but maybe it is ok.
Aetherling is out, now the concern is if I have enough big creatures in non green colors.

-I didn't add any cards from outside my collection to the colorless section and I don't know if it is a bit lacking.

The things that concern me now are relative to the specific cards in each color.
Things like:
-Are the mana curves in each color good? Maybe green has too much top end or too little early plays or maybe the other colors are lacking in big creatures.
-Are there any clear outliers? It is possible that Arbor Colossus is too efficient vs the threats in other colors and maybe Shambling Ghast just doesn't deserve a spot in the cube.
-Could I replace some cards for others that do their job in a more interesting way (and aren't expensive to buy)? Falkenrath Noble is good as a 4 drop that is a payoff for sac decks but maybe one Braids, Cabal Minion would be more interesting than just another draining effect.
-And of course the colorless section is still a mistery for me. I don't know what should I do with it or if it is ok in its current state.

And that's it for now, thanks to the community for the ammount of resources that are there to help noobs like me and any further help would be appreciated!
 
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Some changes I'm considering:

Borborygmos Enraged -> Thromok the Insatiable
Swapping a card that didn't seem like that much of a payoff for being in the deck for a card that signals towards the other gruul deck.

Sultai Scavenger -> Tombstalker
A card that seemed a bit too weak for a real payoff in the graveyard decks.

Sphinx of Magosi -> Treasure Cruise
Worst blue top-end for another graveyard payoff.

Tandem Lookout -> Enclave Cryptologist
Generic tempo card for another graveyard enabler.

EDIT: Also considering cutting Aetherling (sad because I like it and already own it) and Vampiric Sovereign. One just too good, the other just too bad. I don't know what to replace them for yet.
 
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After some more drafts in cubecobra I think I've decided to do the changes I've planned:

-Blue seems like the best color so definitely cutting out Aetherling.
-Didn't get drawn towards Gruul Sacrifice in any draft, so I'm getting Thromok in.
-Graveyard decks seemed a bit lackluster so more graveyard sinergies in spite of other more generic cards.

This are all the changes I did:
Aetherling -> Unsummon
Vampire Sovereign -> Fallen Angel
Borborygmos Enraged -> Thromok the Insatiable
Tandem Lookout -> Enclave Cryptologist
Sphinx of Magosi -> Treasure Cruise
Narcolepsy -> Radical Idea
Sultai Scavenger -> Gurmag Angler (Tombstalker seemed too similar to Necropolis Fiend)

Here is the cubecobra list updated:https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/61117215ba78bf103986bdd1

EDIT: Last minute change:
Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire -> Intet, the Dreamer

Vaevictis was a false signal (just had it in because I own it and think it's cool). Intet in because now the 2 non-triangle color trios have a card to build around.

EDIT 2: Curse of the Swine -> Sphinx of the Lost Truths

I like the curse, but it is so clunky and I feel that blue needed another creature at the top end.

Despise -> Tortured Existence

Just didn't like Despise and Tortured Existence seemed like a good and fun tool for graveyard matters and any midrange deck.
 
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So with the latest changes I feel that I tackled most of the things I didn't like about the cube relative to archetypes and sinergies. All archetypes seem drafteable and the lack of specific themes in b/x decks doesn't seem that much of a problem to me now because I've realised that it is compensated by the fact that black is the more important color in graveyard and sacrifice decks. The quality and quantity of black and multicolor black/x enablers and payoffs in those archetypes makes even nonblack decks want to splash it.

Now that themes and archetypes are (I think) in a good spot I will update the first post, reflecting the evolution of the cube and the new concerns I have.

Also, some drafts:

(EDIT: The deck preview seems broken I don't know why.
EDIT 2: It works fine in Firefox, seems to be a problem with Chrome.)

Grixis Control











Although Cruel Ultimatum definitely tends to pull you towards Grixis when drafting control, I've also drafted some mainly UR/UB decks.

BG Graveyard Ramp











Seeing this deck I doubt wether is it worth it to keep Cry of the Carnarium so control decks have a powerful tool vs sac aggro or swap it for a non-exiling board wipe so graveyard decks don't have anti-sinergy in their removal.

RG Sac Aggro










If I end up with a deck like this while playing the cube I'm 100% forcing the Thromok + Fling OTK meme.

BG Sac Aggro










Happy to see this deck and the Ramp one be drafteable in the same colors, same wiht RG Aggro/RG Ramp, UR Tempo/UR Counterburn and UG Tempo/ UG Control Ramp. Only color combinations that seem to always want to be in the same range of speed are UB, RB and obviously 4c goodstuff.
 
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First post updated.

Also, there is a change I'm not sure how to do it but really want to: Gurmag Angler -> Tasigur, the Golden Fang
I don't like vanilla cards and Tasigur seems like the best replacement but I really don't want there to be a Sultai card and no Jund one. The way to go about this that I like the most is bit clunky tho: House ruling Alesha, Who Smiles at Death to be Jund instead of Mardu, cutting 2 colorless slots to make room for this cards and adding a black card (probably Bloodthrone Vampire, although maybe that's too much sac and too little graveyard support) and a Rakdos card (probably Rakdos Cackler) to fill the empty slots of Alesha and Gurmag.
 
I wouldn't worry that much about color balancing to do all that shuffling! One card off in slots will never be detectable by your drafters, and your proposed workaround is pretty iffy (Alesha isn't jund, even if it's desirable for her to be). I ran tasigur in a black slot and it worked out great
 
Yeah, I was trying to have the same exact number of cards in each color just for aesthetic reasons. Just forgetting about it will help with decision paralysis.

So, some changes I made based on feedback I recently got:

Wayfarer's Bauble -> Reclamation Sage
Guild Globe -> Brimstone Volley
Skittering Surveyor -> Bake into a Pie
Meteor Golem -> Wildborn Preserver
Gurmag Angler -> Tasigur, the Golden Fang

Some artifacts that played a less important role out to make room for the other cards.
Reclamation Sage in so enchantments and artifacts can be interacted with.
Brimstone Volley in to have more burn quantity.
Bake into a Pie in so there is one more (weaker) hard removal option.
Wildborn Preserver in so green has more early plays and Simic one more flash creature.
 
Just when I thought the cube was close to a good enough state for buying the cards and start playing with it, someone pointed to me that I don't have enough one drops to support aggro. I thought that having only tempo and sacrifice decks be able to go aggresive would've make the need for one drops lower, but that person didn't agree and now I don't know if going that route and making room for a Rakdos Cackler or something.

On another note, I'm interested in cards that bridge two or more different archetypes together so the drafting process is a bit more interesting. I would love something like Shadowborn Demon to not be in a powet level that far from that of my cube, maybe something like Disciple of Bolas could tie together control and sacrifice? I'm open to suggestions.
 
I think that what's going on with the "aggro problem" isn't that you don't have enough one-drops per se; as in retail limited, aggro decks starting on 2 are perfectly viable, provided that you build the format with them in mind and are looking at the correct power band to support that, which you seem to be! However, I'm seeing two factors which make it difficult to draft aggro which are as follows:

1. Your 2-drops tend to be defensive. Things like Reassembling Skeleton and Orzhov Enforcer tend to act as roadblocks for aggro by gumming up the board, and/or killing everything it toiches which is part of the problem, but there's also the issues of many of your 2-MV creatures having more toughness than power, which makes it hard to break stalls or attack profitably. But even then, most of your two-drop creatures are value engines that you don't want getting into combat like Merfolk Looter or Young Pyromancer. Essentially, these are enchantments that can be removed with burn spells and that deal damage when your opponent has no creatures, and I tend to categorize them as such when I'm looking at creature/noncreature ratios. To fix this, I think you might want to find room for more aggressively-slanted critters that still interact with the graveyard like Order of Midnight or Noose Constrictor.

2. Your 5+ drops completely invalidate your 2-3 drops. Massacre Girl will take most 2-3 drops off of the board, but even things like Soul of Shandalar need to be triple- or quadruple-blocked to remove through combat, and that's without counting it's ability. Yes, a big part of Magic is saving your removal for the creatures that need it, but I think that your aggro decks can't leverage the window that your removal will provide. Thankfully, this is easy to solve by juicing up your aggro 1-3 drops to better take advantage of their dominance in the early section of the game! Even so, keeping a lookout for ways to give aggro decks reach might not go amiss--Overrun is expensive, but it ends games in 2021 just as well as it did in 2006.


edit--here is a list of (mostly) graveyard-focused aggro-enabling two- and three-drops that I personally enjoy and that I think fit within your budget and colors:







Also, I love Shambling Ghast, but it gets a lot better when you have more 1- or 2-toughness bodies . . . which this will do!

-------

I think you're not far off from supporting traditional aggro, honestly. A few tweaks will keep you within budget and on mission. But more importantly, you can run a cube without this idealized version of an aggro deck if that's what you want (though I'll echo the call for more and better one drops because that's what I personally enjoy. Take all recommendations with a grain of salt.) Someone will always be the beatdown, and No Rush 20 was popular on starcraft servers for a reason. It's your cube, and I think you're looking at a lot of fun stuff here!
 
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That's a very insightful response! Thank you a lot!

I can see the problem with 2 drops. I tried to have 2 drops that enabled Aristocrats while having use in other archetypes but now I see that with 3 of my black 2 drops this other archetypes are all control (Orzhov Enforcer, Reassembilng Skeleton and Dusk Legion Zealot). With red and green I'll need some time to know what to cut tho, I have a problem in those colors in that I'm supporting 3 different archetypes there that need different cards, but I'm sure that thanks to the recommendations you gave me I'll find the way soon. I will update this post with the changes I come up with.

EDIT: This are the changes I've made:

Duress -> Ravenous Squirrel

Didn't really like the play pattern of Duress. The squirrell seems fun and is a 1 drop that can go in any jund sac deck.

Seed Guardian -> Mother Bear

Had Seed Guardian in because it ties sac and graveyard, Mother Bear does the same while being lower on the curve (and more fun).

Massacre Girl ->Watcher for Tomorrow

Massacre Girl should've been out since I powered down the top-end of the cube. I liked Watcher for Tomorrow a lot, good in a variety of decks, fun ability and good to be sacrificed with Demon of Catastrophes or Plaguemaster.

Scion of Stygia -> Pestermite

I liked having a D20 effect in the cube, but Pestermite is more versatile and better in tempo.

Varis, Silverymoon Ranger -> Call of the Herd

Again, I liked having a dungeon effect in the cube but Call of the Herd fits in the graveyard sinergy while also being a 3 drop. Anyway, this AFR cards will find their spot in a janky cube I'll build with cards in my collection.

Gravedigger -> Order of Midnight
Orzhov Enforcer -> Carrier Thrall

This cards fulfill the same role as the old ones while being more tempo-oriented. Also, Order of Midnight is just more fun and Carrier Thrall is another card that puts eldrazis that sac for mana in the battlefield and I like that.

Omenspeaker > Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar
Dusk Legion Zealot > Nullpriest of Oblivion
Dimir Doppelganger > Nightveil Specter

I like this changes IF they open up the possibility of a tempo/evasive UB deck.
 
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You're welcome! Something like Lazotep Reaver or Grim Initiate can support some of those strategies as well. Also, context matters--Orzhov Enforcers can play as an aggro card if you're running Ninjas, for example.

But again, I want to emphasize that these recommendations are just recommendations. You get the final say in your cube, so don't feel required to do anything I or anyone else suggest. We're wrong just as often as you, and maybe more so :)
 
After a lot of time I am finally upgrading this cube again. The cubecobra page (link in my signature and in the main post) is updated with all the planned changes.

So, when I first started making this cube my budget was very low so I had to include a lot of cards simply because I already had them and couldn't include others that I would like to. Here are the main goals I'm trying to acomplish with the new changes:

-Cutting some cards that were too boring or generic (i.e: Armored Skaab, Demanding Dragon) and adding others that are more interesting, have more potential for synergy or fulfill a more clear role in the cube.

-Adding some potential for new synergies that wont make a deck on their own but can help create more diversity in how existing decks are played and drafted. Here are the main ones:

Artifact Sacrifice Pack


Goblin Pack


Reanimator Pack


And for the moment the biggest doubt I have with the current selection of cards is if some strategies are overrepresented or underrepresented in certain colors (i.e: is Bogardan Hellkite needed so red can be good at ramping? Is green good enough as a sacrifice color? Are black cards too narrow and archetype-focuse?).
 
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Ok so I ended making some changes to push a bit more the artifact theme:

OUT


IN


So now that I have a decent density of artifacts creation and interactions maybe I could add some more powerful payoffs like Marionette Master but I dont know if it is a good idea to make it its own archetype different from sacrifice or to have payoffs outside red, and making room for it would be difficult.
 
If you haven’t seen this post, check it out:

https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/artifacts-in-cube-yes-but-how.1968/#post-79873

It’s about incorporating an artifact theme into the cube by “artifactying” archetypes.

is Bogardan Hellkite needed so red can be good at ramping?
Coming back to the artifact conundrum, maybe you could slot in some colorless cheat targets so that all colors have access to them. It would help you merge the artifact archetype to ramp/cheat and since space is tight you save some by having all colors pull from the same pool.
 
If you haven’t seen this post, check it out:

https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/artifacts-in-cube-yes-but-how.1968/#post-79873

It’s about incorporating an artifact theme into the cube by “artifactying” archetypes.


Coming back to the artifact conundrum, maybe you could slot in some colorless cheat targets so that all colors have access to them. It would help you merge the artifact archetype to ramp/cheat and since space is tight you save some by having all colors pull from the same pool.
I already have Myr Battlesphere in and had Scuttling Doom Engine before its just that I don't know how important is it that red in specific have one 7+ creature to signal/reward playing gruul ramp (taking into account that Gruul Fires is one of the archetypes I want to support).
 
After a lot of tinkering I finally think I have a definitive list that I am happy with! This thread is already full of posts talking about the old version of the cube and I would like some space to explain all the aspects of the design so I will start another thread and do a proper presentation there.
 
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