General Nonessential staples? (and Gruul cards)

Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Just looking at the MODO cube list. Which of these (pricey) cards would you consider non-essential to a cube list? Do you have proposed alternatives?

I don't want to cut a lot of corners, but if people have ideas, I am open to them.



Follow-up question. All the Gruul cards I want to run cost four.
Huntmaster of the Fells - amazing pod target
Sarkhan Vol - great with sac effects
Bloodbraid Elf - have a boom // bust stiffie (also works with Brainstorm)

Why do you do this Wizards? What should I be doing in Gruul?
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Of all of these, I think Liliana of the Veil is the most essential. Such a workhorse, fills several niches in black strategies. She's the only card I would really miss on this list.

Force of Will definitely is the least essential of these. Because it's inherently card disadvantage, it's at its best when protecting a combo, and there's simply not a lot of that around. I would ditch it without a second thought.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Onderzeeboot said:
Of all of these, I think Liliana of the Veil is the most essential. Such a workhorse, fills several niches in black strategies. She's the only card I would really miss on this list.

Force of Will definitely is the least essential of these. Because it's inherently card disadvantage, it's at its best when protecting a combo, and there's simply not a lot of that around. I would ditch it without a second thought.
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Suggested FoW replacement? I could just slot in another 2-mana counter, but I would rather have one with some play to it if possible.
 
Aston

Aston

Are you playing Pact of Negation? I don't remember.

I'd agree that Liliana is the most irreplaceable, together with Crucible and Titania as there aren't really any similar effects.

For Engineered Explosives, Ratchet Bomb might serve in a pinch?
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
There is always Pact of Negation, but it is also relatively costly. (Although I do have 1 for my online Ad Nauseum Deck if you are so inclined). Isn't Daze good enough as 'something with some play'? Do we really need more than that?

Goyf is also my pick for non-essential cube card. I have posted a couple of times how I don't understand why people like him in cube so much. I find him boring and never know what deck to put him in. I like Scavenging Ooze more as the lategame beater. Can be replaced by anything.

Engineered Explosives: What deck even uses this? I have barely seen it in any lists to think of it as 'essential'.

Deluge can just be Languish I guess until we realise that black needs a 3-mana sweeper (it may not).

Jace is new so we don't know how essential he is at this point, but I would wait until he rotates out of standard then his price will drop significantly. Same with Hangerback.

Titiana and Crucible I feel fit your cube really well so I really want them to be in there.
I'll also just say ditto to Onder about Liliana. She is pretty sweet.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Kirblinx said:
There is always Pact of Negation, but it is also relatively costly. (Although I do have 1 for my online Ad Nauseum Deck if you are so inclined). Isn't Daze good enough as 'something with some play'? Do we really need more than that?

Goyf is also my pick for non-essential cube card. I have posted a couple of times how I don't understand why people like him in cube so much. I find him boring and never know what deck to put him in. I like Scavenging Ooze more as the lategame beater. Can be replaced by anything.

Engineered Explosives: What deck even uses this? I have barely seen it in any lists to think of it as 'essential'.

Deluge can just be Languish I guess until we realise that black needs a 3-mana sweeper (it may not).

Jace is new so we don't know how essential he is at this point, but I would wait until he rotates out of standard then his price will drop significantly. Same with Hangerback.

Titiana and Crucible I feel fit your cube really well so I really want them to be in there.
I'll also just say ditto to Onder about Liliana. She is pretty sweet.
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Proposed replacements for Toxic Deluge, Jace and Hangarback? Can be anything really.

It may just be that we say "if you want to wipe the board for less than 4 mana, play red".
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
Hangerback just fits into the same sort of slot as Epochrasite and Perilous Myr, while it is a cool card, no one will miss it. Engineered explosives is likely similar. Maybe Ratchet Bomb can perform a reasonable impersonation?

Goyf and Force of Will are completely replaceable, I don't think I have ever cubed with them and never missed them. Goyf is just a vanilla beater, and free counters are hardly required to grease the wheels of most cube environments. I will admit, I am a little surprised that Titania is expensive. I guess no one bothered to buy that commander deck online?

Crucible, Titania and Liliana seem the most irreplaceable of those cards, though Crucible and Titania could be cut if you tweak that theme a little.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Kirblinx said:
Also, how essential are these cards, as they are also possibly breaking the budget:
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Geist is essential to blue aggro. Clique is my candidate for "best designed Magic card". Pod doesn't exist without Voice of Resurgence. I'm not really sure what Spellskite is for.

EDIT: Also tell me what to do about Gruul.
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
I like Clique a lot, but feel the rest of the cards are pretty expendable. Geist is super cool, and really pushes that archetype, but I don't know how often you see UW beats coming together.

Edit: "Pod doesn't exist without Voice"... Wha? There are literally no other reasonable 2-drops in your environment?
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Laz said:
I like Clique a lot, but feel the rest of the cards are pretty expendable. Geist is super cool, and really pushes that archetype, but I don't know how often you see UW beats coming together.

Edit: "Pod doesn't exist without Voice"... Wha? There are literally no other reasonable 2-drops in your environment?
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There are, but Voice is the workhorse.

Blue tempo / velocity / whatever is a major incentive to what is kind of a fan-favorite archetype over here. I don't see it ever leaving the list to be honest. I think the cube loses character without Geist.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Gruul: Sarkhan is less good than he appears. I'd cut him and run Rampager if you expect these decks to be attacking, or something cute like Burning-Tree Shaman (Planeswalker abilities cost 1 more loyalty) if you want to promote a more midrange direction.

Replacements:
There's not really anything like deluge, vryn's prodigy, crucible or titania.

Force could be pact of negation, but assuming you're not locked into another free counter, I'd suggust Miscalculation. Free counters are usually overrated, unless the enviornment is combo rich.
Hangerback could be Epochrasite. It's a downgrade, but an acceptable one.
I'm not even sure you need goyf there in the first place, he's just a boring big dude.
 
Goldenpineapple

Goldenpineapple

With 3 slots I think you should just stick with huntmaster, bloodbraid and flinthoof. Those cards are just everything the colors want!

Jason Waddell said:
Do you have proposed alternatives?

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Jace, Liliana, and Crucible are the hardest to replace mechanically, but I don't think anything on the list is a straight-up requirement.

Here's some random stuff that clearly isn't mechanical mirrors, but is relatively generic / not-horrible.

 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Do you need deluge? It only seems essential if you have a b/w life pay deck. Fow I don't like in cube because you can't really play around it like you can in other formats.

Lil is unique and I can't see cutting her. I think I would cut literally every single other planeswalker in the cube first. Jace is really great, but what strategy needs him?

EE does a lot, both as an answer dor difficult to kill permenent types, and a token sweeper. Kind of painful to lose that one.

I like hangerback for the aristocrats deck, but if thats not really a thing in your format, I don't think you need him (though a good pod target?)

Titania is also very unique, and seems like a really healthy addition as it promotes more strategic midrange decks.
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

Liliana does synergize well with certain archetypes, but she is just so strong overall that anyone playing black would run her immediately regardless of whatever else their deck is doing. I cut her recently in my "First Pick Good Stuff" purging, and also gained $80.

If it's the discard synergy you're looking for, there are alternatives.

I'm feeling peer pressure to cut Force of Will now. Is it really that narrow?
 
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