Sets [ORI] Magic Origins Spoilers

frostymoose

frostymoose

James Stevenson said:
I dunno! Maybe a lot of the reason people have tried new things here is rebellion against other ideas they look down on. I don't like totally negative atmospheres, but I do think you need some negativity. It seems to me everything in life is healthiest at a balance. When people start ranting about edh or mtgs, just tell them to shut up.
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I'd like to think there's a subtle (but important) difference between "negativity" and saying "this could be better."

More on-topic:

looks horrible to me. But if I cross out "if you control an artifact" and it becomes a bitterblossom... it starts to look pretty good...slightly too good?
 
B

blacksmithy

Speaking of, could Whirler Rogue be better than Master of Waves for people wanting to push blue tempo? I've been running the Master just because his effect is pretty unique in blue, but I feel like the Rogue just completely outclasses him in almost every way as a Cube card:
+more blinkable
+tokens have better bodies (1/1 flying vs 1/0 vanilla)
+better WCS (at least 2 tokens vs at least 1 token)
+cool activated ability instead of lame color protection
+is a rad lady thief instead of a stoned merman surfer
+artifact synergy

-slightly harder to cast (2UU vs 3U)
-worse BCS (at most 2 tokens vs at most ??? tokens)
-no incidental synergy with Mulldrifter and other elementals

I am the topic-keeper of this thread, it's me
 
RavebornMuse

RavebornMuse

blacksmithy said:
Speaking of, could Whirler Rogue be better than Master of Waves for people wanting to push blue tempo? I've been running the Master just because his effect is pretty unique in blue, but I feel like the Rogue just completely outclasses him in almost every way as a Cube card:
+more blinkable
+tokens have better bodies (1/1 flying vs 1/0 vanilla)
+better WCS (at least 2 tokens vs at least 1 token)
+cool activated ability instead of lame color protection
+is a rad lady thief instead of a stoned merman surfer
+artifact synergy

-slightly harder to cast (2UU vs 3U)
-worse BCS (at most 2 tokens vs at most ??? tokens)
-no incidental synergy with Mulldrifter and other elementals

I am the topic-keeper of this thread, it's me
Click to expand...

I am trying to figure out how to run both, personally. I used to be pretty anti-protection, but I don't mind a few stray niche cards slipping through. Monocoloured isn't really much of a thing here, so I made an exception for the Master because blue needed the help, and it needed the help most against red, because red-based aggro is a machine over here. So far, neither of the protected creatures I run have caused any trouble. You could alternatively just ignore the "protection" clause entirely, but I think they're both cool enough to try to fit in.
 
GenericZero

GenericZero

blacksmithy said:
Speaking of, could Whirler Rogue be better than Master of Waves for people wanting to push blue tempo? I've been running the Master just because his effect is pretty unique in blue, but I feel like the Rogue just completely outclasses him in almost every way as a Cube card:
+more blinkable
+tokens have better bodies (1/1 flying vs 1/0 vanilla)
+better WCS (at least 2 tokens vs at least 1 token)
+cool activated ability instead of lame color protection
+is a rad lady thief instead of a stoned merman surfer
+artifact synergy

-slightly harder to cast (2UU vs 3U)
-worse BCS (at most 2 tokens vs at most ??? tokens)
-no incidental synergy with Mulldrifter and other elementals

I am the topic-keeper of this thread, it's me
Click to expand...

I'm trying to derail this thread with no survivors(or class for that matter). Why do you have to ruin it with a topic-relevant and interesting post?

Seriously though, just fling poop with me.
 
B

blacksmithy

I will not *stamps foot*

Rave, I guess in your case the criteria would be whether having two token producers at 4 in blue is worth the space? That's a tough sell for me, because IMO one of the two adds a really cool element to blue decks that wasn't there before (big board presence), but I think if I ran both at my size, Blue would start feeling more like White and Black, where my cube has a high token density... I'm not sure I want to reduce my color pie separation like that.
I agree they're both cool cards, but my blue section is a) tight and b) already has a lot of redundancy in multiple looters, clones, bounce, cantrips, and counterspells. So for me turning Master into Whirler is a pretty easy cut. Too bad I didn't realize I wanted a Whirler until after I'd preordered.
 
Diakonov

Diakonov

Whirler and Master seem fairly different to me. Master of Waves is more of a smaller, blue Precursor Golem. Given that all the tokens are 2/1's, it's far more aggressive, and much more fragile since the opponent only needs to kill the Master.

Whirler seems more well-suited to a mid-speed durdly sort of strategy.
 
ahadabans

ahadabans

FWIW, I'll be swapping Master for Whirler. And while I agree they are a bit different, my reasons for doing so are as follows:
1. Whirler should still be pretty good in the devotion deck, just not quite as good.
2. Master really isn't that great, so it's not a huge loss losing him.
3. Whirler is going to be better outside the devotion deck making it more playable than Master
4. Making dudes unblockable is powerful and I want me some more of that.
5. Having too many token producers makes that strategy oppressive in a midrange dominant environment, so swapping instead of adding another is the correct move for my meta.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
ahadabans said:
FWIW, I'll be swapping Master for Whirler. And while I agree they are a bit different, my reasons for doing so are as follows:
1. Whirler should still be pretty good in the devotion deck, just not quite as good.
2. Master really isn't that great, so it's not a huge loss losing him.
3. Whirler is going to be better outside the devotion deck making it more playable than Master
4. Making dudes unblockable is powerful and I want me some more of that.
5. Having too many token producers makes that strategy oppressive in a midrange dominant environment, so swapping instead of adding another is the correct move for my meta.
Click to expand...

6. Protection from red is a dumb ability that randomly hoses a quarter of your opponents for no good reason.
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Pretty much agree with the consensus on Whirler Rogue instead of Master of Waves although I was never on the devotion train to begin with so I'll have to find a slot.

I cubed yesterday and got to play with Jace Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound for the first time. Before playing with the card, I was so unsure of it that I almost didn't even give him a shot (while Lili OTOH was an instant inclusion). I'm happy to report back that Jace is the real deal. There was actually a moment in one game where I used a Vryn's prodigy activation to bin a JtMS and I'm pretty sure it was actually the correct play.

Highlight of the day though was brainstorming a terminus to the top of my library EOT, taking my draw step, miracling the terminus, responding to my own spell by looting and letting Jace do his best sailor moon impersonation before the world ended.




tl;dr lost the match to garruk, relentless because my control deck was too durdly/fair and lacked sufficient creature pressure :p
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Skrap said:
Highlight of the day though was brainstorming a terminus to the top of my library EOT, taking my draw step, miracling the terminus, responding to my own spell by looting and letting Jace do his best sailor moon impersonation before the world ended.
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That... is awesome :)

Too bad I don't cube DFC's because it's really annoying/confusing for my less experienced playgroup.
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
I felt really clever until I lost the match anyway with like 8 cards in hand and a graveyard full of cool control spells :D I spent the rest of the evening trying to figure out whether I'm shitty at control or whether I've pushed recursive graveyard decks too far. Pretty sure it's the former!

And yeah, I've contended since the beginning that DFCs are kind of a shark jump. I did notice something interesting though! Yesterday one of my least experienced players looked at Vryn's Prodigy from across the table (too far to read the text) and asked "oh, is that a flip card?".

Now, granted she's played before with werewolves and such, but apparently the messaging is strong enough on the card frame that people who have seen/played with flip cards intuitively understand when they see one. She had no reason other than the frame itself to think he would flip and it was her first time seeing the card. As a web developer who isn't great at UI/UX it just stood out to me how strong the messaging was (particularly given my aforementioned strong feelings about flip cards being kinda stupid).

Without descending too far into madness here (too late), I should also mention that I was playing against this garruk proxy render and as an opponent it helped a TON to be able to remind myself what the modes where on the flip side without indicating to my opponent that I was thinking about it. People talked a lot of shit about that render being a wall of text when I introduced it, but it helped a lot in actual gameplay. God help me, I may consider moving all my flip cards to single-faced renders.
 
Lucre

Lucre

Skrap said:
Pretty much agree with the consensus on Whirler Rogue instead of Master of Waves although I was never on the devotion train to begin with so I'll have to find a slot.

I cubed yesterday and got to play with Jace Vryn's Prodigy // Jace, Telepath Unbound for the first time. Before playing with the card, I was so unsure of it that I almost didn't even give him a shot (while Lili OTOH was an instant inclusion). I'm happy to report back that Jace is the real deal. There was actually a moment in one game where I used a Vryn's prodigy activation to bin a JtMS and I'm pretty sure it was actually the correct play.

Highlight of the day though was brainstorming a terminus to the top of my library EOT, taking my draw step, miracling the terminus, responding to my own spell by looting and letting Jace do his best sailor moon impersonation before the world ended.




tl;dr lost the match to garruk, relentless because my control deck was too durdly/fair and lacked sufficient creature pressure :p
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Play both with a side of tradewind.

Actually it's super annoying that blue gets as good army in cans as white or green etc.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
yeah, at this point, i'm convinced that green is dead last in army-in-a-can spells... which is a real shame as it's supposed to be the "creature" colour, and a lot of people (myself included!) try or tried at some point to support G/X tokens, usually with zero success
 
Lucre

Lucre

I'm trying to think of more green creature rewards I can wish for or design. Convoke, a better aura and green version of something like sorin or elspeth 4 cum 2 mind.
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I have decided that Sphinx's Tutelage is a legitimately awesome blue wincon. It works basically like Jace, Memory Adept, except tuned sensibly.

By itself, it gives inevitability. You can play it, then try to be the control deck and eventually win.

But if that's too slow, that's fine! By simply doing normal blue things like casting brainstorm or tapping a looter, you are speeding up that clock and putting pressure on the opponent. And its probably a lot more pressure then you might think in a 40 card format.

However, if you combine it with other deck accelerating effects like Jace Beleren, Horn of Greed or Hedron Crab you can actually even go nuts be aggressive with it. Not quite red deck full of cacklers and bolts aggressive, but aggressive nonetheless.

I was looking for another blue win con and a way to improve Hedron Crab decks (they probably still suck, but I refuse to give up on him!) and it looks like there was a 2 for 1 staring at me this whole time.

The fear is that like Jace, Memory Adept it turns out that this card is still complete bullshit in 40 card formats, but we'll see.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Yeah, having just won four games by the skin of my teeth in a Magic Origins draft off Sphinx's Tutelage, I can attest to how much fun it is for both the pilot and the opponent. There's a whole lotta tension in the reveals - goddamn you and your artifacts!! - and it encourages the player to draft more durdly air cards that they already were inclined to take. What's that - Hydrolash not only netted you a two-for-one, but it also got you four cards closer to a mill victory? Sign me up!
 
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