Dom Harvey
Contributor
I don't see why Barrens vs the Thicket cycle is the comparison rather than Barrens vs Terramorphic Expanse. They do very different things. Does Satyr Wayfinder 'obliterate' Impulse?
General Re-examining The Basic Land Box
- Thread starter Aoret
- Start date
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Right, this should be being framed as a simple power judgement, nothing more.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
It's not unequivocally better though! Ash Barrens is always a mana source. Cycling lands are a [CIPT land/random card] split card. The whole appeal of cycling lands is that they fight both mana screw and mana flood.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I agree. But that is again a different framing. Ash barrens doesn't need to be unequivocally better than cycling lands to still manage to be the higher power card.
I think we're all reading a bit too much into sigh's use of the term "obliterate." Lets all be cool here.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I completely missed that that was the original argument, I merely responded to your statement that Ash Barrens completely obliterates the old cycle lands. My gut response to your side of the argument was basically...
That was my angle, and that's why it didn't make much sense to me that you were trying to prove Ash Barrens is the better cards. It does different things, that's all I was pointing out as well. Also, I still feel the old cyclers are more interesting for the synergies they have with different kinds of cards, but yes, if you are going to include a single card in your BLB to help mana fixing, of course Ash Barrens is the pick!
I don't think frequency of use should be used as a proxy for power level.
I wasn't using frequency of use as a power level indicator, but as an indication of it being "better". (Grillo put forward the notion that we should look at power level only). The debate wasn't about that originally either. My original supposition was:
whydirt put forward a solid argument that I wasn't correct, and the single-color mana cyclers work better in both cases, flood and screw.
I hyperbolized that Ash Barrens wins the argument of "best for the BLB" solidly now, though it didn't exist to be in contention for the spot back then
RTL, myself included, went nuts???
I think thecost ones are the best for the BLB cuz they can mitigate both flood and color screw.
whydirt put forward a solid argument that I wasn't correct, and the single-color mana cyclers work better in both cases, flood and screw.
I hyperbolized that Ash Barrens wins the argument of "best for the BLB" solidly now, though it didn't exist to be in contention for the spot back then
RTL, myself included, went nuts???
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Unfortunately, because you said that barrens "obliterated" the old cycling lands, it makes everyone stop and instantly start thinking of all the ways that this might not be true.
When your head is filled with 50 ways to disclaim a truth, the truth becomes disclaimed, regardless of what was actual reality.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
tbh it was the use of 'obliterated'
why not 'jokulhaups'd'
(cf. "YOU JUST GOT JOKULHAUPS'D M8")
why not 'jokulhaups'd'
(cf. "YOU JUST GOT JOKULHAUPS'D M8")
I kind of want to make a rule that all basic lands have cycling
So asking here 6 months later.. how did it go?
That joke got Annihilated to a certain Decree (Oh come on even has cycling!)
So asking here 6 months later.. how did it go?
Uh......I might have to get back to you on that one.
Man I haven't cubed in ages.
I usually run 25 of each- that's enough to hedge the possibility that there is a monocolored player on top of one or two other players who are fighting over the color. I can't imagine youd need more than that, and tbh you're probably fine with 20 of each.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
For a more technical discussion, refer to this post on MTGSalvation:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...42-official-basic-land-discussion?page=8#c182
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...42-official-basic-land-discussion?page=8#c182
I run 30 of each land. This hasn't led to any issues with an abundance of fixing. The only time this was a problem was when I had 25 of each and was running Worldknit for a while. That drafter had picked up Koth of the Hammer and decided to just pick up Mountains as the basic of choice. We were short by like 3 lands that night.