Well I guess you need to consider do wizards actually do anything specifically (in a generic sense?), that makes them a wizard? or are they just the blue version of shaman/cleric/druids?
To me it seems like the latter. That means to get to the critical mass of wizards should be easy, because in most scenarios you would change what traditionally would be say a shaman, to a wizard creature.
The other end of the spectrum is that you could develop a key word or mechanic that ties them together.
I personally think it would work better as an incidental tribal type in a cube, but maybe drop a few anchor cards in that firm up the tribe ala xathrid necromancer etc.
Return to weird plane (ie Homelands) More gothic horror I guess but there's tonnes of room there because it's so old now. Remains of Rath could also be possible
Empty world of mysterious ruins (nothing here but spirits and the humans that are discovering it and like animal and plant life) Archeology etc
World that is special for some reason being fought over by iconic mana aligned monsters. Another good devotion world. Scheming demons, meddling djinn, avaricious dragons.
World where wizards rule, ivory towers, very gamey mechanics. Pomp and circumstance
Sword and sorcery savage land sort of world. Dinosaurs? Barbarians? Land mechanics? Combat? Equipment?
Afterlife World. This would be great for a central character odyssey. purgatory, demons, angels, spirits, prisons, graveyards, exile. Lots of classic material and traditions to draw upon
Dungeon Crawl. Not exactly Zendikar. Make overt references to gamey shit. Could also be a great way to tell a heroic odyssey. Could also find use for class tribal. I'm sure if you have a rogue type guy in play some spells or something could be better.
Swashbuckling tropics and dread seas. Trade and burglary. Sunken treasure. Waterworld even!
Planar Hub World. Like some sort of city of gates. You could find yourself in all kinds of situations there.
Some sort of crazy wizard's arena. Tonnes of episodes like this in classic SF.
That seems like a good idea. Being the riptide labs custom cube, I almost feel like wizards and riptide lab has to be central to it. I don't know the backstory behind it in the actual MTGO universe though.
I really like the empty world of ruins idea; maybe with flashback representing the secrets from the ruins being discovered, maybe lots of library peeking to represent the idea of exploration and discovery. Also, landfall.
Lots of sweet directions to go. Thinking of the game flavorfully rather than mechanically is a lot of fun.
Creature Cycle, Wizard
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a <minotaur/zombie/drake/beast/griffin> and put it on top of your library.
<minotaur/zombie/drake/beast/griffin>'s you control get EFFECT.
(one creature type for each color. maybe it's dumb, but I like the idea of Wizards as semi-conjurers of creatures. also cross-tribal synergies are way cooler than within-tribe synergies.)
Voidpond
Land : Add to your mana pool , : Return target land to it's owner's hand a sacrifice Voidpond.
(This could probably also cost 2 and tap)
Generic0 and James were talking about a return to zendikar after the eldrazi were done with it.
You guy should totes talk about all my awesome cards on the other page though.
If you think ignoring and being consistently curt is making me want to contribute I guess we'd both be a little wrong.
Why don't you focus on something other than what you can complain about Jason, there's usually a lot in my posts.
Sometimes less is more. If people aren't engaging with your content it's because you didn't tickle their fancy. None of the designs really inspired me, but I'm not going to make a post dissecting why because that feels like work and leads the thread in a direction I don't want to take it.
Not trying to flame, but people have seen it, they'll engage with it if they want to.
going back to the beginning of the thread: what do people think about cascade?
or maybe what about cascade X instead of being tied to the original spell's mana cost. so bloodbraid would have Cascade 4 (or 3? if that's easier to understand).
could this be the right place for flame javalin style grey hybrid?
i merged bits of a few posts here as what i'm responding too
Lucre said:
Habitat - When you control X or more lands (or less etc) something happens.
I know Anotak loves coloured artifacts. What fantasy landscapes have a lot of artifact creatures? I guess Arthurian or Savage fantasy could have a lot of colourful equipment and the like. I know you guys also love graveyards. What story themes work well with graveyards and lands?
Two mechanics I saw on MTGS years back I liked a lot:
You may spend no coloured mana other than [Colour] to cast this spell.
If you payed only [Colour] mana to cast this spell some bonus happens (I think the original involved copying it's effect)
These are mechanics that make your mana base more interesting somewhat and add more decision depth to it in the right environment.
I really want some lands that care about or move between different zones without being a damning drawback like karoo lands. I like that since this is a closed environment we have a lot of room to make lands that break the rules and also risk warping the way we play magic. Spell lands, super duals and exploring irregular curves are something I'm really curious about. Imagine a format where all the spells cost 1-3 mana and then you are just expected to figure out how to do tricks with your lands, play more than one spell a turn or use some kicker mechanic to give the mid and lategame depth, instead of a steady progression.
Return to weird plane (ie Homelands) More gothic horror I guess but there's tonnes of room there because it's so old now. Remains of Rath could also be possible
Empty world of mysterious ruins (nothing here but spirits and the humans that are discovering it and like animal and plant life) Archeology etc
World that is special for some reason being fought over by iconic mana aligned monsters. Another good devotion world. Scheming demons, meddling djinn, avaricious dragons.
World where wizards rule, ivory towers, very gamey mechanics. Pomp and circumstance
Sword and sorcery savage land sort of world. Dinosaurs? Barbarians? Land mechanics? Combat? Equipment?
Afterlife World. This would be great for a central character odyssey. purgatory, demons, angels, spirits, prisons, graveyards, exile. Lots of classic material and traditions to draw upon
Dungeon Crawl. Not exactly Zendikar. Make overt references to gamey shit. Could also be a great way to tell a heroic odyssey. Could also find use for class tribal. I'm sure if you have a rogue type guy in play some spells or something could be better.
Swashbuckling tropics and dread seas. Trade and burglary. Sunken treasure. Waterworld even!
Planar Hub World. Like some sort of city of gates. You could find yourself in all kinds of situations there.
Some sort of crazy wizard's arena. Tonnes of episodes like this in classic SF.
habitat is interesting, i used something similar on some of those i just posted, but i don't know if it is actually fun enough.
the reason i don't like panglacial wurm:
7/15/2006: While searching your library, you must keep your library in the same order until you shuffle it. This order could matter if you tap Millikin for mana, for example, to pay for a Panglacial Wurm you cast from your library.
as far as colored artifacts and graveyards go, i've gone really deep into those mechanics for some of my other project, i personally would vote against them even though they are near and dear to my heart.
the mana cost mechanics, idk, they one are just too much a monocolor / colorless bonus for my book and we just came off of theros's monocolored theme.
lands that care about moving between zones sounds really sweet potentially. the weird mana curves idea, not so much because it just seems like doing it because it hasn't been done before, as opposed to for reasons.
flavory stuff:
we could tie the life payment stuff into some kind of forbidden 'black magic', not as in the mtg color black (though that's related), but the traditional forbidden magic concept.
lucre's list:
return - idk, being constrained by existing flavor is very difficult and i dont think any of us really know that much about the existing flavor, i certainly don't
mysterious ruins - could be interesting, but isn't this a bit like zendikar pre-roe?
special world - isn't every world special? don't get it
world where wizards rule - i don't see this tying into the lands theme well, but it has potential if we can figure that out
sword and sorcery savageness - ok, sounds cool, but again, isn't this zendikar pre-roe?
afterlife world - this could be cool, but how does this fit lands and life payment?
dungeon crawl - i like this idea a lot and i have a few ideas for it, me and ct brainstormed some before but i don't know how this could be land related without being zendikar 2.
pirate world - this could be really cool if done right but really bad if done wrong because it is prone to cheese
planar hub world - i like this, but i don't think it fits here
crazy wizard's arena - vague, i dunno where this goes
i can be down with this. wheres that terrible 4c legacy wizards deck i saw on an scg stream once
silasw said:
Mechanic dump incoming:
Trickster (This creature can be blocked by tapped creatures, but not untapped creatures.)
Encourages aggression in an interesting way. When I used it, I put it in red and blue.
Test subject [COST] (You may cast this spell for its test subject cost. If you do, put a 2/2 colorless creature token onto the battlefield. This spell targets that token.)
Basically living weapon for instants/sorceries. Note, the token itself is put onto the battlefield upon casting, so it basically has split second.
Growth # (At the beginning of your upkeep, if this creature's power is less than #, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
Might not be worth keywording at all. Not sure if it's interesting on more than a couple cards.
Practice (When you cast this spell, copy it for each card with Practice in your graveyard. You may choose new targets for the copies.)
More parasitic storm-like mechanic made by a friend. Good with graveyard stuff, but the cube would need a critical mass of Practice cards for it to work.
Unity (This creature can't attack or block unless all creatures you control with Unity attack or block.)
Drawback mechanic, can be used for token generators and such.
Smuggle (This creature can't be blocked if there are any unblocked attackers without Smuggle.)
This might cause rules issues, not really sure.
Even more mechanics:
Hidden Suspend
Like Suspend, but face down. The spell turns face up when you cast it. We would have to work out a good cost and number for the suspend that's fair on a lot of different spells.
Suspendback
Suspend, but only from the graveyard.
Overloadback
Flashback, but the flashbacked version is overloaded.
Entwineback
You get the idea.
Stash [COST] ([COST], Reveal this card from your hand: Exchange it with the bottom card of your library.)
Cycling variant, if you have multiples you can retrieve a card you stashed, interactions with scry and shuffling.
Defiant - Whenever an opponent casts a spell that targets this creature, [EFFECT].
Reverse heroic. Kind of like a milder/more interactive Hexproof.
Vindictive - Whenever an opponent casts a spell that targets another creature you control, [EFFECT].
Feels white, it represents a creature protecting/avenging your other creatures.
trickster - it feels confusing and weird, is it really worth it
test subject - weird, perhaps can you give an example of where to use it?
growth - hmmm, this could be useful in an rtr-type environment with a lot of simpler keywords, but what does it do here
practice - this is very scary and too hard to develop into something fair imo
unity - idk, feels weird
smuggle - this is interesting, plays well with ninjutsu, but wrong place for it?
hidden suspend - out of place here again, also i don't like the complexity issue with suspend unless there are really good reasons to use it
suspendback - does it exile like flashback or what? memory issues again
overloadback - idk, seems weird
stash - doing too much with the bottom of the library is physically annoying
defiant - not enough to be a whole set mechanic imo. the name is neat though
vindictive - i like this, but might not be enough for a whole set either. if we did adventurers world, this could be a good paladin mechanic
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, you may search your library for a <minotaur/zombie/drake/beast/griffin> and put it on top of your library.
<minotaur/zombie/drake/beast/griffin>'s you control get EFFECT.
(one creature type for each color. maybe it's dumb, but I like the idea of Wizards as semi-conjurers of creatures. also cross-tribal synergies are way cooler than within-tribe synergies.)
habitat is interesting, i used something similar on some of those i just posted, but i don't know if it is actually fun enough.
the reason i don't like panglacial wurm:
7/15/2006: While searching your library, you must keep your library in the same order until you shuffle it. This order could matter if you tap Millikin for mana, for example, to pay for a Panglacial Wurm you cast from your library.
I feel like we can avoid those sorts of problems with the wurm pretty easily lol. Does milikin have a similar problem with say future sight? Why don't we just forget milikin hahahahahah
flavory stuff:
we could tie the life payment stuff into some kind of forbidden 'black magic', not as in the mtg color black (though that's related), but the traditional forbidden magic concept.
lucre's list:
return - idk, being constrained by existing flavor is very difficult and i dont think any of us really know that much about the existing flavor, i certainly don't
mysterious ruins - could be interesting, but isn't this a bit like zendikar pre-roe?
special world - isn't every world special? don't get it
world where wizards rule - i don't see this tying into the lands theme well, but it has potential if we can figure that out
sword and sorcery savageness - ok, sounds cool, but again, isn't this zendikar pre-roe?
afterlife world - this could be cool, but how does this fit lands and life payment?
dungeon crawl - i like this idea a lot and i have a few ideas for it, me and ct brainstormed some before but i don't know how this could be land related without being zendikar 2.
pirate world - this could be really cool if done right but really bad if done wrong because it is prone to cheese
planar hub world - i like this, but i don't think it fits here
crazy wizard's arena - vague, i dunno where this goes
Okay well we've got a little confusion here. Firstly with the "Special World" I just called it that because it didn't matter so much what they were fighting over, we've got tonnes of room to play with that, it's more that there are iconic and colourful powers at work fighting over it. Big characterful turmoil is a great backdrop to get many kinds of mechanic effects through. Like how important was it that zendikar be cheeseball adventure world when the eldrazi invaded, more or less not at all.
Mysterious "Empty Ruins Plane" was actually a remnant of a forum game I participated in. I designed the set as sort of refugees from dominaria going to this new world and no one was there but ghosts and ruins and it was ominous and spooky. I think the mechanics the participants decided on were Dig, Recover and Threshold. It was looking kinda neat, but there's tonnes of room there. Archeology?
Okay you like citing zendikar a lot as being representative of a lot of these themes, but while that's true, it was kinda very spread out and diluted. My impression of it so far was more "World of Warcraft" gamey tropey adventuring and missing any essential genre character of most classic adventure or low fantasy settings. I guess the magic spin of it did a little of that but I think many of these facets could be and would deserve to be explored a little more. Like for "Savage World" Think Conan, think The Lost World, think guys riding dinosaurs and a woman sitting a throne with two tigers chained up to it. Don't think level up and zendikons etc.
I think both "Wizard City" and "Afterlives" could work with the lands theme because the lands in these areas are sorta inherently non basic and subject to weirdness. Some wizard univeristy type deal would have a lot of magic fueled civilization about it and probably be fucking with it a lot. I think the afterlife, things are a lot less firm and are probably more subject to change as say the narrative changes, theres some fundamental unrealness to it that would let you play with it more and stories have often taken a character past many places in their journey through death. Life payment is easy in an after life based set, tonnes of soul/blood themes to go by, and lots of existing lore about using souls as currency in the afterlife. Wizards could practice blood magic, but thats pretty low fantasy.
"Dungeon Crawl" was another remnant of savlation. I think my idea was a dumb set wizards released in line with D&Ds anniversary and it completely fed off existing tropes of dungeon crawling and typical roleplaying situations. I think it's easy to fit most themes into this shell but it's kinda a really demanding idea if you wana be thorough with it. You could just just go with something similar to zendikar that's way more true to depicting adventuring parties / enemy encounters / puzzles and traps / exotic dangerous locales. I imagine a friendly bartender's advice might let you draw and discard some cards.
I think the appeal to going to an explored plane is that some of the flavor has been fleshed out but the mechanics don't have to be. We've gotten tonnes of mileage out of dominaria and various places the weatherlight has revisited. Plus can you imagine how much time has passed on what remains of Rath or Ulgrotha or Mercadia since the last time we've been there. You could explain anything with the central crux of the arc.
Yeah I love that stuff too, I'm just waaaaay worse on thinking of story corrections on my feet than a couple of my more improvy mates. Plus I'm supes distractable in DMing and you want someone that keeps the PCs moving and doesn't mind cracking the whip right? I'm totally down to try to put together a Riptide D20 thing on Roll20 some time though. We can run afoul of a mummy or something.
Ugh Jason and Generic Zero. Yeah I get it. I agree with both of you. I guess I was proud of my ideas, I thought they did interesting shit with the work that was already up here and I was hoping someone would be helpful enough to look at them in reference to the work currently being done. For instance, I think Panglacial type cards would be really fascinating interacting in a cube with any self mill or that was attempting to overwork it's top of library (and land triggers) with fetchlands and shuffle effects. I'm also clearly hunting for easy and generic ways to care about lands in hand and to shift them between zones (not just caring about etb landfall triggers). I do wish Jason was as interested in interacting with my content as he is in remarking on my methods, but you know, I like Jason for Jason so whatever has been working so far.
Lastly I dreamt up this bullshit earlier, I think wizards is the perf vehicle for contract:
Wind Master
Creature - Human Wizard
Flying
Contract - , Discard Wind Master from your hand: Change the target of target spell or ability with a single target.
2/4
Probz needs tooling but you get the idea right? A similar black wizard might do anything from murdering a guy, raising dead (Great with contract), or cremating while being an efficient intimidating body to create tension. Think of the possibilities.
Anotak: I do love me some Cascade. Landstorm excites me more at the moment, and they're both competing for the maximal "one free-spell mechanic per set" slot.
Study Session
Instant
Draw two cards then discard a card from your hand.
Whenever you search your library you may play Study Session from your library as though it was in your hand.
