Chris Taylor
Contributor
Time for the real combo
Sigh, again?
- Thread starter sigh
- Start date
All that talk of spells decks in nanonox's thread and lo, my cube decided to spit out a cool deck that showcases the bridge between lands and spells that I'm working to promote/permit. Only a couple cards off the ideal of what I'm looking for, and turns out those cards were actually.... pretty compellingly drafted by a bot. So can't complain I guess, as that tension would be something you could absolutely face in a real draft.
What I really would have loved to fully tie the themes together is a life from the loam at least, I had a Seismic Assault in the SB I could've brought in to pair with it. Even more ideal would've been adding the flame jab for maximum triggers, but turns out that the draft bot "next" to me actually drafted that pair. I'm not going to get to excited and say that it was a purposeful pairing on the part of the bot, but hey, it was neat that it happened and who knows, maybe there is a synergy linkage that the bot picked up on, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
A snip of that bots deck. Just from this snip I wouldn't be able to say this isn't a human drafter:
Cards that stand out for me:
(Dragon's Rage Channeler)
I'm really loving this include from MH2. A Young Pyromancer style trigger that isn't [add token] but also a body that fits into how I like spells decks to play (looking at the game that's happened prior and/or after, not just after). I think I will be hard pressed to ever find a reason to remove it.
this card really lives up to expectations as an archetype bridge. A spells trigger that works the lands angle. Perfect. I feel like this alone could power a flame jab or other retrace spell, and just really like the effect in general for it's help with draw smoothing, fixing, etc.
Probably one of the less critical cards for this particular deck, and would've been cranked to 11 with a loam package (infinite Flame Jab mana! With Quandrix Apprentice it would potentially be able to chain through the entire deck's worth of lands.)
I'm not convinced that I need three color cards, even though I like having some, but song of creation sure does look fun in this deck. Kinda makes the deck a little stormy, and makes the end step baller with Badgersaur. Deck really could use a GY shuffle effect though, since the draw isn't optional!
I love triomes, and this just adds to my reasons why. That is a damn creative way to turn a fetch that is in 1 color of the deck into a fetch that is in all three colors of the deck. Bonus points for possibly bumping converge to 4 for Kaleidoscorch!
I like having a mind control effect in U as a way for U decks to deal with otherwise troublesome creatures, but I'm not in love with the fact that it's an enchantment that doesn't really play well with other spells-matter stuff. I'm thinking maybe trying one of the spells that can gain control?
Does anybody have experience with spells like this? I'm also wondering if the effect is really necessary in general, in which case this can simply be some more typical blue permission like repeal etc.
Not in the deck (nor the cube), but man it would be a pretty strong card in this deck. I just have no idea what I would swap out for it at this point.
I think a three color card that I don't really need. My spells decks aren't turning out to be Jeskai all that often, since I've excluded basically all of the payoffs that white has (monastery mentor etc.). Still only one slot in the entire cube, so I'll probably leave it for now, but I can see searching for another option here. Maybe another
card would be a better choice...
| | | | | |
| |||||
What I really would have loved to fully tie the themes together is a life from the loam at least, I had a Seismic Assault in the SB I could've brought in to pair with it. Even more ideal would've been adding the flame jab for maximum triggers, but turns out that the draft bot "next" to me actually drafted that pair. I'm not going to get to excited and say that it was a purposeful pairing on the part of the bot, but hey, it was neat that it happened and who knows, maybe there is a synergy linkage that the bot picked up on, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
A snip of that bots deck. Just from this snip I wouldn't be able to say this isn't a human drafter:
Cards that stand out for me:
(Dragon's Rage Channeler)
I'm really loving this include from MH2. A Young Pyromancer style trigger that isn't [add token] but also a body that fits into how I like spells decks to play (looking at the game that's happened prior and/or after, not just after). I think I will be hard pressed to ever find a reason to remove it.
this card really lives up to expectations as an archetype bridge. A spells trigger that works the lands angle. Perfect. I feel like this alone could power a flame jab or other retrace spell, and just really like the effect in general for it's help with draw smoothing, fixing, etc.
Probably one of the less critical cards for this particular deck, and would've been cranked to 11 with a loam package (infinite Flame Jab mana! With Quandrix Apprentice it would potentially be able to chain through the entire deck's worth of lands.)
I'm not convinced that I need three color cards, even though I like having some, but song of creation sure does look fun in this deck. Kinda makes the deck a little stormy, and makes the end step baller with Badgersaur. Deck really could use a GY shuffle effect though, since the draw isn't optional!
I love triomes, and this just adds to my reasons why. That is a damn creative way to turn a fetch that is in 1 color of the deck into a fetch that is in all three colors of the deck. Bonus points for possibly bumping converge to 4 for Kaleidoscorch!
I like having a mind control effect in U as a way for U decks to deal with otherwise troublesome creatures, but I'm not in love with the fact that it's an enchantment that doesn't really play well with other spells-matter stuff. I'm thinking maybe trying one of the spells that can gain control?
Does anybody have experience with spells like this? I'm also wondering if the effect is really necessary in general, in which case this can simply be some more typical blue permission like repeal etc.
Not in the deck (nor the cube), but man it would be a pretty strong card in this deck. I just have no idea what I would swap out for it at this point.
I think a three color card that I don't really need. My spells decks aren't turning out to be Jeskai all that often, since I've excluded basically all of the payoffs that white has (monastery mentor etc.). Still only one slot in the entire cube, so I'll probably leave it for now, but I can see searching for another option here. Maybe another
card would be a better choice...
I think the blue control spells are just so inefficient. There could be an argument for Lullmage's Domination since your format is pretty GY oriented. I'm not a fan of the casting cost, but late game it should be manageable.
The only other option I have in mind is Tempted by the Oriq, but its targets are limited and still has the triple blue mana cost.
What I play in my format is stuff like Rapid Hybridization or Reality Shift which answer most cards, but at the cost of giving a creature. My format is MP so a 3/3 is less impactful. Probably too much of a downside for regular cubes.
I think having a few 3 color cards is fine. Sure, most drafts they won't get played, but they allow some nice shenanigans sometimes. In the 3 color spells matter cards, I love Kess, Dissident Mage. It's less all in than the others, but just as potent. Slow card advantage/recursion machine for spells.
Love the deck you shared. Low to the ground with a ton of interaction, but also synergies!
I think we are reaching a critical mass of intersecting cards that allow for some nice crossovers. By that I mean that I think there are enough payoffs and enablers that you are able to weave in several themes in the same deck without them sticking out.
Self-mill, discard, spells, tokens and lands are all there.
Artifacts, +1/+1 counters and sacrifice are getting close, but are still a little more isolated IMO.
casting cost, but late game it should be manageable.The only other option I have in mind is Tempted by the Oriq, but its targets are limited and still has the triple blue mana cost.
What I play in my format is stuff like Rapid Hybridization or Reality Shift which answer most cards, but at the cost of giving a creature. My format is MP so a 3/3 is less impactful. Probably too much of a downside for regular cubes.
I think having a few 3 color cards is fine. Sure, most drafts they won't get played, but they allow some nice shenanigans sometimes. In the 3 color spells matter cards, I love Kess, Dissident Mage. It's less all in than the others, but just as potent. Slow card advantage/recursion machine for spells.
Love the deck you shared. Low to the ground with a ton of interaction, but also synergies!
I think we are reaching a critical mass of intersecting cards that allow for some nice crossovers. By that I mean that I think there are enough payoffs and enablers that you are able to weave in several themes in the same deck without them sticking out.
Self-mill, discard, spells, tokens and lands are all there.
Artifacts, +1/+1 counters and sacrifice are getting close, but are still a little more isolated IMO.
I'm basically in the same headspace on these. Still not entirely sure what direction to take, but it might be as simple as another bounce spell. Mono-I think the blue control spells are just so inefficient. There could be an argument for Lullmage's Domination since your format is pretty GY oriented. I'm not a fan of the
The only other option I have in mind is Tempted by the Oriq, but its targets are limited and still has the triple blue mana cost.
isn't a thing in the format, so really it's not the most critical function anyways. UR is probably the most apt to want that sort of effect, but there are X burn spells to scale up to larger creatures if needed. I might add an Unsubstantiate back in.I like Kess quite a lot too, but I'm trying to keep my three color cards in the same colors as the triomes for a bit of consistency. Also Kess can get quite strong in my format, which is slower on the single player side of things, giving her time to really pile on advantage. Still, I might be swayed one day if the play patterns of another gold card are just better for a deck than keeping the structured approach intact. It'll probably be 5 years at least until The other Triomes are printed lol...
Thanks! And agree, WotC has done a really decent job of broadening the scope of some of their play concepts to enable this cross-pollination. I think the much more common occurrence of colored artifacts in new sets will really help tie that theme in further. +1/+1 counters being a bit isolated is something that I've struggled with in building this cube out, but I've started to find kinda a separate chunk of overlapping themes with stuff like equipments, and small creature recursion. Honestly feeling a bit like sacrifice themes are the most isolated of themes overall, since they operate on a totally different spectrum than most decks do (purposefully killing my own creatures as opposed to the general strategy of keeping them as alive as possible).
Meant to cover this a bit ago, but here we are. Thanks to @Erik Twice for the draft of a sweet deck. https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/60deef85182e215a769f2b34
Of particular interest to me is how much this deck feels like a blink deck. I think this is very close to what I believe @blacksmithy has described as the black style of death-blink. This package of cards really contributes to a recycling of effects that I like to see.
Along with the major sac that Bontu can bring. This deck feels like one that can really lean into blocking because there is so much staying power on that ETB creature suite. The (tiny) lands package seems like absolute gravy, which is sweet. Lotus Field in particular seems to shine here as both Fetchable by the Reclaimer and also able to power the reclaimer and Knight.
All in all, I'm seeing a lot of what I want my Abzan to be doing. I could see a sac outlet of some kind turning this up to 11. Are there sac outlets that play well into long-game strategies?
Eric, was there anything you felt like was missing from the draft or resulting list that you would've liked to have seen?
| | | | | |
| |||||
Of particular interest to me is how much this deck feels like a blink deck. I think this is very close to what I believe @blacksmithy has described as the black style of death-blink. This package of cards really contributes to a recycling of effects that I like to see.
Along with the major sac that Bontu can bring. This deck feels like one that can really lean into blocking because there is so much staying power on that ETB creature suite. The (tiny) lands package seems like absolute gravy, which is sweet. Lotus Field in particular seems to shine here as both Fetchable by the Reclaimer and also able to power the reclaimer and Knight.
All in all, I'm seeing a lot of what I want my Abzan to be doing. I could see a sac outlet of some kind turning this up to 11. Are there sac outlets that play well into long-game strategies?
Eric, was there anything you felt like was missing from the draft or resulting list that you would've liked to have seen?
Last edited:
I don't remember it too well but I think I started with Liliana, Languish and Persist and eventually moved into this recursive deck as the draft pushed me to it. My initial idea was to build an Orzhov deck which is why a few of the cards are not quite as good in the shell as one could hope. For example, Persist is not very good in this shell and the fixing can't actually support three colours. But it should work.
If you like this kind of decks, it's pretty similar to Birthing Pod builds. Still, it was the deck that pushed me into finally adding Bontu to my cube.
If you like this kind of decks, it's pretty similar to Birthing Pod builds. Still, it was the deck that pushed me into finally adding Bontu to my cube.