Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

[RavebornMuse]

For those of you who are trying it, how has this big hunk of stats been? I keep trying to convince myself it's a conditional Overrun effect on a tolerable spell-body due to the mana cost, but is it just nuts? How does it compare to Wolfir Silverheart?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

For those of you who are trying it, how has this big hunk of stats been? I keep trying to convince myself it's a conditional Overrun effect on a tolerable spell-body due to the mana cost, but is it just nuts? How does it compare to Wolfir Silverheart?

In favor of Gearhulk: Gearhulk is a bigger beater on its own and it has trample. It's also better with Birthing Pod, interacts with the +1/+1 counter theme, and can strategically spread out the bonus. When your opponent kills the Gearhulk, the bonus stays around. It's harder to be blown out by removal. Kill the Silverheart during attacks, and suddenly you're left with an attacking 2/2 that's eaten by their 3/3 instead of a 6/6 that crushes it. Gearhulk doesn't have that problem.
In favor of Silverheart: Wolfir Silverheart isn't vulnerable to artifact removal, and represents 12/12 in stats instead of 8/8. If they (or you, for that matter) somehow get rid of the bonded creature, Silverheart can re-bond to grant its bonus again. It has a creature type that is better supported.

All in all I'ld say Gearhulk is the better card, and it's not necessarily a bad thing that the ceiling on Gearhulk is lower either. I cut Silverheart for being too gross and haven't tried out Gearhulk, so I can't confirm if my intuition is right on this one.

 

[ahadabans]

Silverheart I think will be swingier because it's 12 power instead of 8. But Gearhulk is probably better more often because of the points Ondereeboot made.

I love Wolfir but he was a bit broken in my midrange list. The additional +1/+1 counter support (and slightly lower ceiling) would probably make me want to try Gearhulk in my list instead if I go back to that list.

 

[shamizy]

For those of you who are trying it, how has this big hunk of stats been? I keep trying to convince myself it's a conditional Overrun effect on a tolerable spell-body due to the mana cost, but is it just nuts? How does it compare to Wolfir Silverheart?

In a high powered Riptide list? It's been just fine. If you have enough efficient spot removal/interaction capable of matching up with 4/4 (on avg) threats sprinkled throughout, I don't see it being overbearing. Silverheart was far too swingy back when I had it in my original list 3 years ago, all for reasons that Onder stated. Just dropping 12 power worth of stats and then forcing your opponent to have a quick answer really changed the game state too quickly. In comparison, I've found that the Gearhulk's ability is usually just dispersing the 4 counters across multiple bodies rather than creating a single giant threat. It's usually been jumping the Gearhulk to a 5/5 trample (acceptable) growing one guy by +1/+1 and another guy by +2/+2.

In any case, I think it's just more elegant because there are more lines of play to it than Wolfir's Soulbond. Going all in on growing another attacker versus buffing a developed board present different lines of play versus an opponent who might have a Path to Exile versus a Wrath of God. Both situations came up when I jammed a couple of quilt draft games this past weekend against a WR Aggro list and a UBg Control-y build. The only decks I could see having a problem with a resolved Greenhulk is an R/x deck with the majority of its interaction being centered in burn spells. You just can't deal with a 5/5 or larger threat easily if your spells are mostly dealing 2 or 3 damage without being forced into a 2 for 1. More cards that deal 4 or X damage might be a good fix for that in general though (like Collective Defiance, Stoke the Flames, Exquisite Firecraft, etc.).

The more midrange-y a cube, the more powerful Verdurous Gearhulk will be. If Aggro and Control have enough teeth to keep Midrange in check in your cube, this Gearhulk is perfectly safe to run.

 

[Fulcrum]

This might belong in the Low Power Card Discussion but what do you guys think of Crovax, Ascendant Hero? Ad Nuaseam started in playing it as a sideboard card against infect which is where I initially saw. It feels like it could be a fairer version of Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite that's easier to cast for control decks and a more beatable target for reanimator decks

You don't want to play this against decks that have white creatures but I feel like you can overcome that by either wrathing the board in a control deck or reanimating something else in a reanimator deck.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I always felt it was weird he didn't have flying
I like that he protects himself in a really fair way. Has anyone tried it?

 

[ahadabans]

I believe that was in some power max lists many years ago, so not super lower power honestly (though maybe by today's standards).

My concern with it is that the deck that really wants it (WW) can't generally play it since they usually don't get to 6 mana. As a control card, -1/-1 is pretty conditional and this card would be SUPER BAD against the WW player. 4/4 vanilla isn't stellar as a finisher either.

A 3WW version of that would probably be pretty amazing though. It would probably make a lot of decks.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Though on the other hand we never really considered elesh norn a white weenie card and she did just fine.
Maybe if the anthemn isn't really the selling point?

 

[StormEntity]

As a point of comparison, how do people feel about this card?



The 4/4 body is nice, but it's also a vulnerability, but there's that protection, but unless their creatures are (largely) one toughness they can just clear the Crovax with a removal spell and go back to attacking. I'm not quite sure what you get out of this comparison, but there's something there. Curse seems not-very-playable, and the advantages of Crovax don't seem like they overcome the inherent issues.

 

[Dom Harvey]

Crovax is one of my pet favourites, it belongs more in the Low Power spotlight IMO but it's perfect for that kind of environment

 

[Chris Taylor]

As a point of comparison, how do people feel about this card?



The 4/4 body is nice, but it's also a vulnerability, but there's that protection, but unless their creatures are (largely) one toughness they can just clear the Crovax with a removal spell and go back to attacking. I'm not quite sure what you get out of this comparison, but there's something there. Curse seems not-very-playable, and the advantages of Crovax don't seem like they overcome the inherent issues.

One of the things I like about crovax in the higher powered enviornments is that he turns all your opponent's doom blades into souped up vapor snags since he can bounce himself so easily.
It's a bit conditional on the white player having a few life to spare, so it might not be the most noticeable upside in places where goblin guide is an acceptable turn 1 play, but this can probably be counteracted somewhat by some incedental lifegain cards like Fumigate, Seeker of the Way, Aerial Responder, etc

 

[ahadabans]

Elesh Norn is very clearly a control card though. -2/-2 on your opponents dudes is so much better than -1/-1 for starters. Also, she doesn't have the conditionally super janky "white/non-white" clause, making her effect always in your favor. She also has vigilance and a giant ass, so you can play defense and still attack. All that for 1 extra mana over Hero. It's so so so much more creature.

Being able to return Hero to your hand for 2 life is nice, but if you want a threat that doesn't really go away, there are better choices out there (Eternal Dragon for example). Or just something that can't easily be dismissed (not much like that in white, but other colors obviously have options). If you are looking for a weaker Elesh Norn, it might work I just feel it's going to be frustratingly inconsistent. Your opponent has Resto Angel out or something, your six drop pumps it? Just a hard include unless you want high variability on your top end creatures.

 

[Diakonov]

I somehow never noticed before that good Crovax has Selenia, Dark Angel's ability. I wonder what the story is there.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I somehow never noticed before that good Crovax has Selenia, Dark Angel's ability. I wonder what the story is there.

It's planar chaos, so whatever happened to her happened to him
Mirri the Cursed took his origional place in the story IIRC

 

[shamizy]

I somehow never noticed before that good Crovax has Selenia, Dark Angel's ability. I wonder what the story is there.

From MTGS Wiki:

Crovax was born on the island of Urborg to the noble Windgrace family. He had a poor relationship with his parents and his noble status and the remoteness of Urborg meant that he was largely isolated from the outside world. His only companion was the angel Selenia, who was bound to an artifact to protect the family estate. Over time, Crovax became besotted with the angel, who was unable to return his affections. When the opportunity arose for Crovax to join the Weatherlight crew, he jumped at the chance to leave Urborg behind and explore Dominaria. He took with him the artifact controlling Selenia so that he could be with her.

Crovax later received word that a pair of unstoppable beasts were ravaging Urborg. He convinced the Weatherlight crew to go to the aid of his family and found that the Phyrexian agents Morinfen and Gallowbraid had laid waste to his family’s lands whilst leaving the other nobles untouched. The Weatherlight arrived too late to stop the slaughter of Crovax’s family and soon found themselves locked in battle with the beasts. Rofellos became the first casualty of the battle. In order to win the desperate fight, Crovax summoned Selenia, who defeated the Phyrexians. In the aftermath, Crovax blamed himself for what had happened: his taking of Selenia’s amulet had left his family vulnerable to the attack. In an attempt to make amends, he chose to remain in Urborg to try to restore his family’s heritage.

Whilst in Urborg, Crovax’s love for Selenia became obsessive. Enraged by her inability to return his feelings, he shattered the artifact that bound her in the belief that it prevented her feeling love. Instead, Selenia simply flew away once it was destroyed and again left Crovax’s estate vulnerable to attack. Left with only his family's remains for company, Crovax became more and more unstable. Unbeknownst to him, the act of destroying the artifact had cursed Crovax to a life of misery. He was now destined to destroy all that he loved.

...

In Planar Chaos, it is revealed that there is another reality in which Mirri killed Selenia and became cursed instead. Following his grief for the loss of both of them, Crovax re-emerged as Crovax, Ascendant Hero.
According to the artist Pete Venters, his plumed caped is related to Selenia's wings, and he carries the Sword of the Chosen.

 

[Fulcrum]

Hearing that Rofellos died in battle and then looking at his card art really makes me laugh.



For what it's worth, the mtgsalvation thread on Crovax basically says that Sun Titan, Yosei, the Morning Star, Sunblast Angel, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and Angel of Serenity are all better. (I'm not disputing this. Elesh Norn is 1000x times better.)

It might be one of those things where you have to look at your environment and see how many things he kills, how prevalent nonwhite tokens are, etc. I don't view the anthem as a big selling point, like maybe sometimes your Monastery Mentor or Restoration Angel would get buffed but that's just gravy. I like that the protection ability has a very real drawback so its not something that's impossible to kill like Aetherling.

There's a lot of concern about playing this against decks with white creatures which I think is a super valid concern. It's a big deal but I feel like it's kind of simple to overcome, just remove the creature(s). I know that's not always possible but I think a control deck that wants Crovax would want a way to remove troublesome creatures. I don't want to discredit the argument because again, I do feel like it can be a significant drawback but it feels similar to arguing that Abyssal Persecutor is bad because what if you can't get rid of it?

 

[shamizy]

For the record I think Crovax is a cool card, just not a high enough power level to find a spot in my environment. Aggro will kill you too quickly, Midrange creatures are too resilient with ETBs and the ability to quickly generate value, and Control is looking for cards to close the game out at that cost. 6 mana is slightly more than I want to pay for that kind of effect when matched up against current Magic design. I just don't think he does enough with a 4/4 body and an anthem effect that likely won't be attainable by the archetypes (mostly W/x Aggro and tokens) that would benefit the most from it.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I will say I'm a lot less excited when I noticed he could accidentally be pumping your opponent's creatures.
I think he's probably be fine if he just had elesh norn's wording

 

[Velrun]

I always felt it was weird he didn't have flying
I like that he protects himself in a really fair way. Has anyone tried it?

Could that perhaps be because of this guy?

Crovax, Ascendant Hero is the planesshifted version of his old black self. If the artwork on Evincar has flying, why does the artwork on Hero not have flying?

 

[shamizy]

For anyone that has run/is running this card, how good is it?



I'm looking into solidifying more graveyard centric GB themes in the future and forgot this guy existed till I took a look at my binder. I wasn't all that interested when he was first released around 15 months back, but we've gotten a lot more support since then with things like The Gitrog Monster and Grim Flayer, grave pulses like Vessel of Nascency and Grapple With the Past, and even more ways to discard and accrue advantage like Smuggler's Copter and Collective Brutality. Might be worth a second look nowadays.

 

[GiftsForgiven]

For anyone that has run/is running this card, how good is it?



I'm looking into solidifying more graveyard centric GB themes in the future and forgot this guy existed till I took a look at my binder. I wasn't all that interested when he was first released around 15 months back, but we've gotten a lot more support since then with things like The Gitrog Monster and Grim Flayer, grave pulses like Vessel of Nascency and Grapple With the Past, and even more ways to discard and accrue advantage like Smuggler's Copter and Collective Brutality. Might be worth a second look nowadays.

In the cube I'm currently building, I'm going for "Self-Mill, Sacrifice, and +1/+1 counters." as the things for Golgari to do. He really fits perfectly!

 

[RavebornMuse]

Am I the only one both inspired and terrified by this card? It looks like a really versatile card to mess around with (blanks removal, turns a trade into a profitable block, makes wrath effects one-sided).. But no one seems to have said anything about it, as far as my Search-Fu goes.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Am I the only one both inspired and terrified by this card? It looks like a really versatile card to mess around with (blanks removal, turns a trade into a profitable block, makes wrath effects one-sided).. But no one seems to have said anything about it, as far as my Search-Fu goes.

It didn't make my cube. I did test it, but it's only good (ok, not entirely true, but not entirely false either) against decks loaded with mass removal that don't pressure you so you can afford to keep two mana open at all times. It's such a slow and reactive card really. Would you board in a Naturalize if you know your opponent has only two targets? That's how I felt about this card most of the time.

 

[GiftsForgiven]

Am I the only one both inspired and terrified by this card? It looks like a really versatile card to mess around with (blanks removal, turns a trade into a profitable block, makes wrath effects one-sided).. But no one seems to have said anything about it, as far as my Search-Fu goes.

This card heavily incentivizes and rewards players for manipulating their opponent into a situation where they can 'blow them out by combat,' e.g make their doods indestructible after attacks/blocks. That's a situation that's more common in draft than cube, I think.

It's worth noting that this is great in multiplayer-style cubes, where boardwipes are more common...

 

[ahadabans]

This probably works in a "protect the queen" type of deck.

I don't think you can run that as a combat trick value play and have it be more than filler though. If you instead setup something that has to be answered by your opponent or they lose, then this is essentially a counter spell against whatever your opponent tries to do. Feels pretty narrow.

Combat tricks that tend to work well are ones you can use aggressively. Like Harm's Way. My 2 cents.