Hello everyone! I didn't see a dedicated thread on this archetype before. So, how do you guys support so called Spells Matter in your cubes? I'm thinking of it as of a primary strategy for Izzet Section, but, of course, it isn't limited by it. Which deck type (Aggro, Tempo, Midrange, Control), you think, is more relevant for which colour combination? There're so much variants to choose from that I just can't do anything, I even don't have some specific game plan for this sort of deck in my mind.
General Spells Matter: Astonished With a Freedom
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I run a spells matter archetype in 
in my cube, and I used to run it in Jeskai, when that was still a thing in my cube. The archetype gets picked up often, is a blast to play, and can be succesful, so I can at least show you what works in my cube!
I'ld say the main cards that draw a player into this archetype are:
I run double Pyromancer, by the way. I'ld say it's a perfect card to double up on!
Then there's a bunch of support cards that can flesh out a deck while strengthening the theme:
I've tried one card in the past that looks cool but is an absolute trap:
Problem is, Delver is never going to carry you to victory on its own. Pyromancer diversifies the threats, so if they deal with the Pyro, you've still got the tokens. Delver is just a 1/1, that might flip into a slightly faster threat that can still easily be dealt with, and then you've got only your spells. It simply does not generate enough value if it does trigger, and it's downright miserable when it doesn't.
in my cube, and I used to run it in Jeskai, when that was still a thing in my cube. The archetype gets picked up often, is a blast to play, and can be succesful, so I can at least show you what works in my cube!I'ld say the main cards that draw a player into this archetype are:
I run double Pyromancer, by the way. I'ld say it's a perfect card to double up on!
Then there's a bunch of support cards that can flesh out a deck while strengthening the theme:
I've tried one card in the past that looks cool but is an absolute trap:
Problem is, Delver is never going to carry you to victory on its own. Pyromancer diversifies the threats, so if they deal with the Pyro, you've still got the tokens. Delver is just a 1/1, that might flip into a slightly faster threat that can still easily be dealt with, and then you've got only your spells. It simply does not generate enough value if it does trigger, and it's downright miserable when it doesn't.
I really like Pyromancer, too, although it is quite fragile. As for Monastery Mentor, I have some doubts. It seems to be nice, but some people say it's slow. We personally haven't tested it yet.
Pyromancer's Goggles are definetely in our list, the mechanic itself is cute
Snapcaster - auto-include.
I saw Dynavolt Tower played in a UR control spells heavy deck, but I can't imagine who else will be interested in taking it. Maybe, midrange?..
Haven't you had any experience with Charmbreaker Devils or Goblin Dark-Dwellers? They are, probably, some sort of card advantage on a stick, seems sweet.
Also, could looting-effects like Looter il-Kor be used in Spells Matter? I just don't know where they could do their best)
And a bit of an offtop: how do you find Aeon Chronicler? Is it worth running?
Pyromancer's Goggles are definetely in our list, the mechanic itself is cute
Snapcaster - auto-include.
I saw Dynavolt Tower played in a UR control spells heavy deck, but I can't imagine who else will be interested in taking it. Maybe, midrange?..
Haven't you had any experience with Charmbreaker Devils or Goblin Dark-Dwellers? They are, probably, some sort of card advantage on a stick, seems sweet.
Also, could looting-effects like Looter il-Kor be used in Spells Matter? I just don't know where they could do their best)
And a bit of an offtop: how do you find Aeon Chronicler? Is it worth running?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Goblin Dark-Dwellers I cut. It wasn't the most interesting addition, and the big payoff spells for the spells matter archetype are already expensive, so it often gets cut. In the end I felt that slot was better spent on a red five drop that helps out the Wildfire archetype, I believe I swapped it out for Charging Monstrosaur. I have't tested Charmbreaker Devils. It's probably the bee's knees when it works, but you have to wait a full turn before it does anything, and up to that point it's a really, really expensive 4/4. I never tried it out because the feel-bad-potential is a bit too high for my liking.
Looter effects are great in any blue deck, spells matter is no exception, though you do have less room for creatures if you want to run a critical mass of spells.
I have no idea what to think of Aeon Chronicler, it's been a long while since I've seen that card, but it was quite a sweet value card in TSP drafts I imagine it's a little bit too slow for most cubes.
Looter effects are great in any blue deck, spells matter is no exception, though you do have less room for creatures if you want to run a critical mass of spells.
I have no idea what to think of Aeon Chronicler, it's been a long while since I've seen that card, but it was quite a sweet value card in TSP drafts
I imagine it's a little bit too slow for most cubes.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
This card has been clutch in making spells matters successful in my cube.
Oh, right! I just added that in my last update as well. What do you run to support it, because it's been slightly lackluster in testing for me?
I like spells matter a lot. I shifted from tempo to a more control oriented deck lately and I'm happy about that. Delver/Kiln Fiend is just more of a narrow deck imo. Here are the pay-off cardsI'm running currently.
Really happy with them:
Considering to replace:
Like I said, I shifted this archetype more towards a control version, where this doesn't fit. It's still fine for aggro decks, but maybe something else could be more interesting (for multiple archetypes).
Has been fine, but also suffers a bit from the more controlish version of this deck being dominant now.
On a related note: Waht are peoples opinions on these cards:
Which one is the best effect? For us folks that don't run Snapcaster for power and/or budget reasons that is.
Really happy with them:
Considering to replace:
Like I said, I shifted this archetype more towards a control version, where this doesn't fit. It's still fine for aggro decks, but maybe something else could be more interesting (for multiple archetypes).
Has been fine, but also suffers a bit from the more controlish version of this deck being dominant now.
On a related note: Waht are peoples opinions on these cards:
Which one is the best effect? For us folks that don't run Snapcaster for power and/or budget reasons that is.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Thermo-Alchemist and Aberrant Researcher are not showing for me in your post, not sure why.
Your point on Swiftspear is interesting, it was feeling a bit meh for me as well, and I think you are spot on in your analysis. The spells matter archetype is indeed a more controlling one in my cube as well, and Swiftspear just isn't as interesting in that.
Your point on Swiftspear is interesting, it was feeling a bit meh for me as well, and I think you are spot on in your analysis. The spells matter archetype is indeed a more controlling one in my cube as well, and Swiftspear just isn't as interesting in that.
Gelectrode is gas. Huge pull into the deck, works in fast- and slow-game decks, and is a color-pair anchor to boot.
This is the card I've replaced Swiftspear with, and it works very well in the spells deck. Obvs doesn't directly interact with spells, but one of the major foundations of my UR decks is the draw-discard suite. I also find Menace much more generically useful than haste most of the time.
This is the card I've replaced Swiftspear with, and it works very well in the spells deck. Obvs doesn't directly interact with spells, but one of the major foundations of my UR decks is the draw-discard suite. I also find Menace much more generically useful than haste most of the time.
Probably some others.
This is a great backbone for u/w a spells tokens prowess mashup that’s way more successful in my experience than the izzet version with young peezy (can always be splashed)
Yeah, it's quite expensive. Probably, it might be played in a more control-oriented or midrange deck (in fast matchups, where you plan to play slowly anyways). As you told, it really seems sweet, but I doubt if it's worth it. That's why I asked) Maybe, we'll test it, but its low speed should be considered.
Thank you for a suggestion, but we decided not to include cards from unglued, -hinged and -stable)
This card has been clutch in making spells matters successful in my cube.
I like almost all of those cards, but what I'm upset about is they are likely not fast enough for our environment. And what I definetely take is Runchanter's Pike and Enigma Drake. As for Gelectrode... There was a post below, where sigh said it's great. But it's so fragileI like spells matter a lot. I shifted from tempo to a more control oriented deck lately and I'm happy about that. Delver/Kiln Fiend is just more of a narrow deck imo. Here are the pay-off cardsI'm running currently.
Really happy with them:
Is it really worth that gold slot in UR? Sorry, I just haven't ever played it)I'm also interested in this category of cards, would like to hear some opinions about which diggers are good (not necessarily from this trinity) and which amount is healthy for 360-cards cube.On a related note: Waht are peoples opinions on these cards:
Which one is the best effect? For us folks that don't run Snapcaster for power and/or budget reasons that is.
Thank you for your thoughts on Swiftspear, my Spells Matter happend to be midrange-control, too)
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
As sigh said, Gelectrode is gas. I love splashing for it in enrage decks, but that's my particular environment
enrage decks, but that's my particular environment As sigh said, Gelectrode is gas. I love splashing for it in
Thank you, we'll discuss it with my playgroup.
And one more card I remembered: Soulfire Grand Master. How do you, guys, like it? It seems to be good, but a bit awkward, don't know why exactly.
Isn't it narrow? I mean there must be some sort of a niche strategy like Boros control, maybe, to make it viable? UR deck could splash for it, but to me splashing into a third colour for early drops doesn't seem to be a good idea. Once I was tempted by this card, but now I don't know what to think about it...)
Well, from this point of view, it seems nice) But, as usual, we'll firstly discuss it. Thank you!
Both of these are the best spell recursion creatures imho, with spells decks generally preferring the 0/4 wall body rather than the 1-mana discount for Archaeomancer and a wimpy 1/2. Both are solid, though if you're running Snapcaster Mage, I'd stay you probably just want the Wall, as you really don't want too many of those effects.
Both of these are the best spell recursion creatures imho, with spells decks generally preferring the 0/4 wall body rather than the 1-mana discount for Archaeomancer and a wimpy 1/2. Both are solid, though if you're running Snapcaster Mage, I'd stay you probably just want the Wall, as you really don't want too many of those effects.
Thank you very much!
Also, returning to Metallurgic Summonings. Isn't this one slow? I forgot about this one when we were talking about Charmbreaker Devils. Summonings cause us to wait for a turn as well. Or I missed something?
Summonings isn't as easy to deal with as Charmbreaker Devils, as not every deck is going to have access to an enchantment removal spell. When it sticks on the board, it really runs away with games in a hurry. It's quite a lot more powerful than the Devils; the power level on that is deceptively high.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I've never found it to be that overwhelming. It makes groundbound dorks, you are taking a turn off doing absolutely nothing, and you need the expensive spell to be in your hand the turn afterward to build something that does have impact. In my opinion it's a sweet build around card that isn't as easy to abuse as RBM seems to suggest. When it does get to stick and you're not under any pressure it is indeed sweet though, and it can (and will) certainly win games, but it's definitely not an "I win"-button in my experience!
Summonings is a sizable mana investment for something doesn't immediately impact the board. Cards like Force of Will and Gush would help that a little, but it's always felt more like an EDH card than a cube card to me.
I really like Goblin Dark-Dwellers, for what it's worth. You can do some great stuff with it in Show and Tell decks (Show in the gobbo, flashback Show, put in your bigger threat), it's a solid beater for Rx control decks, which I push in my environment, and it competes with Torrential Gearhulk for best body on a snapcaster variant IMO.
In my Cube, I run double Young Pyromancer to push spells-matter, and Jeskai Ascendancy to push a coherent spells-matter deck that gets to have big swing turns.
In my Cube, I run double Young Pyromancer to push spells-matter, and Jeskai Ascendancy to push a coherent spells-matter deck that gets to have big swing turns.
Then I really can't wait to test Summonings) Thank you!
P.S. When I saw it at first, I didn't pay attention to its Kaladesh sign and thought it was from some Commander Edition. Probably, that's because it feels sweet and, so to speak, massive)
P.S. When I saw it at first, I didn't pay attention to its Kaladesh sign and thought it was from some Commander Edition. Probably, that's because it feels sweet and, so to speak, massive)
Thank you for sharing your experience!