Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I didn't calculate an ideal ratio.
General Spells Matter: Astonished With a Freedom
- Thread starter Karn Cuberated
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Delver also suffers from the much higher land counts you tend to have in limited. If you look at RUG Delver in legacy, it plays 18-19 lands in a 60 card deck; if you're playing 17 in your 40 card deck that's about a 10% increase. You'd need to run a 12-13 land deck to get the same ratio, which usually isn't possible as your cube deck will inevitably have a higher curve.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
All I can say is as far as deck building goes, less spells than you think. Still need to kill people after all
Depends on how much weihght your payoffs can carry I would say. In my meta, a big Rise from the Tides or a Talrand or Charmbreaker Devils, if they survive a few turns, can usually win a game on their own (with spells obviously).
Just from my mind, I would say I'd like to have around 13-16 instants/sorceries and 4-5 payoffs at least, although some payoffs (like RftT) can be spells themselves. This would leave you with a few slots to create a smooth curve and play some value creatures/artifacts/enchantments.
On a related note, I am going to test out this guy:
Accelerates you pretty nicely and continues to do so while turning into a 3/4 prowess. I have good hopes for him being my spells matter tarmogoyf.
Just from my mind, I would say I'd like to have around 13-16 instants/sorceries and 4-5 payoffs at least, although some payoffs (like RftT) can be spells themselves. This would leave you with a few slots to create a smooth curve and play some value creatures/artifacts/enchantments.
On a related note, I am going to test out this guy:
Accelerates you pretty nicely and continues to do so while turning into a 3/4 prowess. I have good hopes for him being my spells matter tarmogoyf.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Also, except for spells matter and hard control, decks ideally run at least 12 creatures, preferably more, which only leaves room for so many spells. The creature to spells ratio in most of my colors reflects this, it's approximately 3:2, except in blue and the blue multicolor slots, which is where I expect these two decks to show up, where it is nearly 1:1.
Depends on how much weihght your payoffs can carry I would say. In my meta, a big Rise from the Tides or a Talrand or Charmbreaker Devils, if they survive a few turns, can usually win a game on their own (with spells obviously).
Just from my mind, I would say I'd like to have around 13-16 instants/sorceries and 4-5 payoffs at least, although some payoffs (like RftT) can be spells themselves. This would leave you with a few slots to create a smooth curve and play some value creatures/artifacts/enchantments.
On a related note, I am going to test out this guy:
Accelerates you pretty nicely and continues to do so while turning into a 3/4 prowess. I have good hopes for him being my spells matter tarmogoyf.
Thanks, I'll try to use your strategy.
I played Homunculus in some casual deck in "kitchen" magic with my friends, it was funny) But in my cube it will die to removal the turn I play him. I don't understand, how people can even think about killing this cute guy
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I tried the Homunculus, and it didn't do much before, but I still have some hopes for it. Tell me if it plays well and I might give it another shot!On a related note, I am going to test out this guy:
Accelerates you pretty nicely and continues to do so while turning into a 3/4 prowess. I have good hopes for him being my spells matter tarmogoyf.
By the way, how many draw spells (maybe, also on a stick) can be run in 360-card cubes? I usually see not more than 5, but how control decks then will get CA?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Well, this is one of the reasons blue can get away with less creatures, because it has the superior draw spells. That said, you want to spread the love around. In my 450 cube the following cards draw more than one card (so, real card advantage) green has almost as many options as blue, and blue has to jump through some hoops to get to the true card advantage, which means I run more Chart the Course and Thopter Spy Network type of cards than Fact or Fiction style cards.
Thanks, I'll try to use your strategy.
I played Homunculus in some casual deck in "kitchen" magic with my friends, it was funny) But in my cube it will die to removal the turn I play him. I don't understand, how people can even think about killing this cute guy
If my 2-drop eats a removal spell, I'd be pretty okay with it most of the time. The same could happen to young pyro or baby jace, so that's not what makes a spells matter 2-drop bad I guess.
I tried the Homunculus, and it didn't do much before, but I still have some hopes for it. Tell me if it plays well and I might give it another shot!
To be fair, quite a few of my payoffs would be a little weaker in your list, or not? I'd say yours is slightly higher powered over all.
I guess, you do it for the sake of synergy) I like and run both cards you mentioned, but Chart a Course is, maybe, more tempoish, and sometimes Control needs some unconditional draw. But it's not so interesting. That's the problem I can't solve. But, maybe, it's forgivable to run just a few of dedicated draw spells?
That's true, our cube's power level is higher. And that's true again, some of your suggestions are just too weak for our environment.
Nevertheless, I start to understand, what kind of cards are typically needed by archetypes, so, your experience is definetely useful for me)
And Homunculus is just a piece of nostalgia for me)) But we don't consider including it right now.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Certainly, I do run some, I simply make sure blue's card draw options aren't all raw card advantage, that blue's not the only color with good card draw options, and that blue's card draw suite is not head and shoulders above the other colors.
That's reasonable, I like your point
What are you're thought on spells matter future sight?
Looks like it would be able to generate lots of CA in any deck with 13+ instants/sorceries. Also exiling top deck lands or unneeded stuff in the late game is not bad either.
I'm going to use this post as a jumping off point to ask for insight on a subtheme I've been thinking about running within UR spells (that doesn't include Precognition Field, but which reminded me of it).
To speak in cards:
Basically, I was looking at Bloodwater Entity, which I already run, and thinking it would be fun to leverage the fact that it puts the card on top of your library by running some miracles. The four listed above that I might want to run are, I think, pretty fair, in that they are either inherently not too swingy or they're situational enough that randomly topdecking them won't necessarily be useful, incentivizing the drafter to try and set up an ideal situation with the other pieces.
Ancestral Knowledge seems great in a Baron archetype as well. Library of Leng may be a stretch, it would require pretty consistent access to self-discard to work even in this mini-miracles deck, but I'm intrigued by the possibility. Has anyone ever run a low power miracles package like this? Am I underestimating the power level of these cards? Reforge the Soul in particular is a kind of card I've never played with, so maybe it's bonkers and I'm not seeing it?
Again, this wouldn't be a primary theme in UR, but kind of a mini-theme that can fit into the already existent spells archetype if the drafter picks up on it.
I had some thoughts about a theme like this, but I have never had played it.
In my cube I run Bonfire of the Damned, but I doubt if it will be good in my environment.
This guy could play well with that massive rummage card and draw spells mentioned above - Reforge the Soul
Probably, also you'd like to recycle your graveyard back to your library or utilize cards which fell down (reanimate/Grim Lavamancer), but, maybe, it's a subtheme incide a subtheme
The idea is great, some people here also tried to run it. It would be better to hear someone's else opinion on it)
In my cube I run Bonfire of the Damned, but I doubt if it will be good in my environment.
This guy could play well with that massive rummage card and draw spells mentioned above - Reforge the Soul
Probably, also you'd like to recycle your graveyard back to your library or utilize cards which fell down (reanimate/Grim Lavamancer), but, maybe, it's a subtheme incide a subtheme
The idea is great, some people here also tried to run it. It would be better to hear someone's else opinion on it)
Bonfire of the Damned is absurdly strong, and by most standards is either too good or just feels miserable to lose against.
As for counts of creatures vs spells, it depends on the overall power level of your environment, and especially the power level and frequency of ETB creatures. My cube is nearly a 1:1 ratio to spells and creatures, and this is achieved by being highly careful with the number and power level of ETB creatures, as well as adding a variety of non-creature spells that produce creature tokens.
As for counts of creatures vs spells, it depends on the overall power level of your environment, and especially the power level and frequency of ETB creatures. My cube is nearly a 1:1 ratio to spells and creatures, and this is achieved by being highly careful with the number and power level of ETB creatures, as well as adding a variety of non-creature spells that produce creature tokens.
Probably, Bonfire is out, because ramp decks might be able to make it too insane.
Thank you for your tips!
I'm going to use this post as a jumping off point to ask for insight on a subtheme I've been thinking about running within UR spells (that doesn't include Precognition Field, but which reminded me of it).
To speak in cards:
Basically, I was looking at Bloodwater Entity, which I already run, and thinking it would be fun to leverage the fact that it puts the card on top of your library by running some miracles. The four listed above that I might want to run are, I think, pretty fair, in that they are either inherently not too swingy or they're situational enough that randomly topdecking them won't necessarily be useful, incentivizing the drafter to try and set up an ideal situation with the other pieces.
Ancestral Knowledge seems great in a Baron archetype as well. Library of Leng may be a stretch, it would require pretty consistent access to self-discard to work even in this mini-miracles deck, but I'm intrigued by the possibility. Has anyone ever run a low power miracles package like this? Am I underestimating the power level of these cards? Reforge the Soul in particular is a kind of card I've never played with, so maybe it's bonkers and I'm not seeing it?
Again, this wouldn't be a primary theme in UR, but kind of a mini-theme that can fit into the already existent spells archetype if the drafter picks up on it.
Other cards that might lend some crossover appeal into other colors:
I'm not even sure if ramp is necessary for it to be insane. Seems like in most cubes, randomly topdecking this with access to four or more mana is pretty much going to be game over, and once you get into the late game it becomes the quintessential "oops, I win" card.
This video tells you everything you need to know about Bonfire of the Damned:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Topdeck a Lightning Helix: Greatest topdeck in the history of Magic!
Topdeck a Bonfire of the Damned: Miracles really suck!
Dear friends, are there some good cards in blue and white to build a spells deck around? Snapcaster and Torrential Gearhulk are already included. I'd like it to be not a Control/not only a Control, because we already have Control Spells Matter in UR.
The thing is I've just decided to cut U/W Blink from our cube, and now UW needs some another theme.
What comes to my mind is Myth Realized and Monastery Mentor, they were already mentioned
The thing is I've just decided to cut U/W Blink from our cube, and now UW needs some another theme.
What comes to my mind is Myth Realized and Monastery Mentor, they were already mentioned
