General Stale Cube - What Do You Do To Refresh It?

Hi all. My cube is getting a bit stale and I haven't really updated it with the last few sets. It feels lost, not very cohesive, and I'm not sure how to approach its repair.

I'm curious to see how people approach this problem with their own cubes. I'm not asking for advice on my specific cube, but thought it would be great to brainstorm with all you creative peeps on how you approach this situation - and hopefully help some others out there in the same situation.
 

Laz

Developer
I know the feeling. It is probably why I have rebuilt my list from scratch multiple times. I find it is really valuable to take a step back, think about what is working, what isn't working as well, what you want to try out, etc. and throw all of these through the gauntlet of building from the ground up.

Each time I do it, sacred cows are slaughtered, but I always feel I am a little bit better off.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Don't know if it's really any help, because I don't have this problem. If anything, I have to many cards to add each set. I can only tell you what helps in my case, and hopefully it's of some help to you as well!
  • Make sure your cube is bigger than 360 (450 or so will do), so you don't draft the same cards over and over again. This is especially true if you regularly draft with 8 people.
  • Each new set, identify a handful of cards you think might play well and/or be fun to play and force yourself to put them in your cube, even if it means cutting good cards. You can always put the old cards back in if the new ones don't work, but at least you're not playing with the same cards each time.
  • Lower the power level of your cube. If you're power maxing, it's very hard to justify adds from new sets, because there will be very few cards that can compete with what's already in your cube.
  • Don't draft your own cube all the time. When you draft other people's cubes, you break the monotony of playing the same cards over and over again. You might play with and like cards that you hadn't even considered yourself, and use this inspiration to spice up your own cube.
  • From time to time identify theme's that don't perform as well as you liked, or conversely perform way too good, and cut them completely, replacing them with a new theme that you think might be fun. Because themes only work in volume, you can often cut a lot of cards this way and really freshen up your cube.
 
Another thing I think can be a good practice that I haven't gotten the chance to do myself is to try and sit down, build as good decks as you can with your cube and then playtest those. That way you can get some insight in what some raw gameplay is actually going to be like, and get a feel for what cards does or doesn't contribute to whatever it is you want to get going.

For example, let's say you've got the riptide style aggro package of recursive black (gravecrawler, bloodghast etc), human weenies and the like. You also want to do something about your control decks, since they feel lacking. Build as good as a representation of the aggressive decks as you can, and then build "drafty" control decks to beat those! Only when you've got a control list that really feels good against the aggro decks (or whatever gauntlet deck you're building) do you move forward with incorporating it into the main list.

When building the "deck under test", that you're pitting against your cube gauntlet, I'd suggest feeling free to try whatever cards you have lying around. Try to stick to singleton and simulate something that looks like it's actually been drafted, but otherwise feel free to do whatever you want.

The reason I'm bringing this up is, when doing such a big overhaul I think it's easy to get stuck in an idea of what the cube should become after you're done, and then running the risk of getting disappointed when it turns out you're still ending up with the problems you had before.

Ultimately you want to build a cube that has really great gameplay, and I think playtesting the decks you actually want people to end up drafting is a good way to start in the right end, namely the actual magic games. The drafting can then be a layer that comes in after you have some playtesting done, where you actually know things about the format and can make judgement calls based on something more solid than just mere speculation.

  • Don't draft your own cube all the time. When you draft other people's cubes, you break the monotony of playing the same cards over and over again. You might play with and like cards that you hadn't even considered yourself, and use this inspiration to spice up your own cube.

I think this is sound advice, and to reconnect with the stuff I wrote about above, why not look at other draft formats (cubes or retail) and build decks from those and play test? Ask a friend to join you in just battling out with some decks, either in paper or on some online client, and really get a feel for different drafts.
 
YOU MUST DESTROY YOUR WORLD TO CREATE A NEW ONE FROM ITS ASHES!
I think that was from Code Geass or something? Anyway if my list gets boring but I don't have a clear path forward to revise it, I just open up a blank spreadsheet, then make a new list with a new set of themes without even looking at my current list.
(Of course at this point I don't cube enough for any format to get stale, but actually just last night I converted my 450 experimental BFZ update into a 300 high-powered list designed for 4 drafters and multiplayer formats, so I feel that Cube ennui too.)
Sometimes though, you just gotta take a break from cubing heavily and try some other stuff!
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Just out of curiousity - when you say your cube is stale, is that your own opinion as a cube designer, or have you been getting this feedback from your playgroup? I ask because I've been in that rut a few times before, and I questioned whether it was worth continuing to run my cube sessions, or whether I should tear it down and start anew. But then I'd run a cube draft with my group, get lots of feedback - both positive and negative - and generally witness people having a good time. That would tend to renew my fire to keep building the best cube possible, and would get me reinvigorated to put in the time and effort to cube design.

If your playgroup is complaining that your cube is stale, I would follow Onderzeeboot's advice to tweak the power level - both going down or up are fine, cause either way, there's a shake up - and to design new themes and archetypes around the new sets that have been released. If it's just you that thinks your cube is stale, though, that could be just you viewing things from the lens of a cube designer, where it's sometimes tough to get out of the nitty gritty depths of tweaking your cube and view it for the fun experience that your players see it as. In this case, chances are, your playgroup might be able to better evaluate whether your cube is actually in a rut, or is playing just fine.
 
Just out of curiousity - when you say your cube is stale, is that your own opinion as a cube designer, or have you been getting this feedback from your playgroup? I ask because I've been in that rut a few times before, and I questioned whether it was worth continuing to run my cube sessions, or whether I should tear it down and start anew. But then I'd run a cube draft with my group, get lots of feedback - both positive and negative - and generally witness people having a good time. That would tend to renew my fire to keep building the best cube possible, and would get me reinvigorated to put in the time and effort to cube design.

If your playgroup is complaining that your cube is stale, I would follow Onderzeeboot's advice to tweak the power level - both going down or up are fine, cause either way, there's a shake up - and to design new themes and archetypes around the new sets that have been released. If it's just you that thinks your cube is stale, though, that could be just you viewing things from the lens of a cube designer, where it's sometimes tough to get out of the nitty gritty depths of tweaking your cube and view it for the fun experience that your players see it as. In this case, chances are, your playgroup might be able to better evaluate whether your cube is actually in a rut, or is playing just fine.


That's a good point. It isn't from feedback from my group, but a self-diagnosed problem. I've done some ad-hoc changes along the way, and to me it now feels disjointed. I'm still going to play with a list (half the fun for the cube designer) but speak to my group before making the changes.

(Of course at this point I don't cube enough for any format to get stale, but actually just last night I converted my 450 experimental BFZ update into a 300 high-powered list designed for 4 drafters and multiplayer formats, so I feel that Cube ennui too.)
Sometimes though, you just gotta take a break from cubing heavily and try some other stuff!


I would love to see your experimental list - I am making a 2nd cube of similar foundations.

Don't know if it's really any help, because I don't have this problem. If anything, I have to many cards to add each set. I can only tell you what helps in my case, and hopefully it's of some help to you as well!
  • Don't draft your own cube all the time. When you draft other people's cubes, you break the monotony of playing the same cards over and over again. You might play with and like cards that you hadn't even considered yourself, and use this inspiration to spice up your own cube.
I think that is a really good point. It is easy to get stuck in specific pool of cards, and forget about other cards that might actually be what you are looking for.

Thanks all. Would love to hear from more people if they have their own ideas.
 
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