Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
It sure is. He became Atlas.
Sets [THB] Theros Beyond Death *SPOILER*
- Thread starter Mondschwein
- Start date
It sure is. He became Atlas.
Yeah. In Theros 1 Heliod took Elspeth in and made her his champion. Heliod used Elspeth and among other things had her kill Polukranos. In the end he feared her growing strenght so much that he actually stole her weapon Godsend and killed Elspeth. In Theros 2 Heliod has been up to no good here as well in trying to gain more power by trying to vanish the other gods’ devotion or followers. Elspeth escaped the underworld and while doing so she kept shouting warcries (She is a knight of Bant) like ‘The weapon Heliod has is fake and I have the real one’ etc to lower Heliod’s devotion. I am not 100 % sure on what happens then because the story hasn’t been fully told yet but somehow Elspeth got to Heliod and now he has been dethroned to a mere humble servant of Theros and is no longer allowed into Nyx (where the Gods live). He is the new Alkmenos that you see on Weight of the Underworld. Heliod is not dead but is being punished into non-godhood while learning to be selfless. His real punishment will be when he returns to Nyx as a god and realizes (unless he already has realized it) that almost all of his followers are gone because few mortals will worship a God who was once a slave.
.Aaaand now the entire story is up. They skipped some information and added some extra. Allow me to quote Wizards (You can just skip this if you don't care about lore)
The story of Theros Beyond Death
"Elspeth was dead.
But we must begin far before that, centuries ago. Before the gods of Theros rose to power, the titans—horrific primal urges made flesh—roamed the mortal realm, sowing death and destruction in their wake. The mortals, powerless to defend themselves, turned to prayer in their hour of need. From this prayer, this concentrated devotion, sprang forth the gods themselves.
Imbued with incredible power by the faith of mortals, the gods sealed the titans away in the Underworld. Klothys, the god of fate, volunteered to act as jailer and sequestered herself in the Underworld for eternity. While Erebos rules this realm beyond death, it was Klothys who acted as eternal seal, ensuring the titans remained trapped.
And so, the gods ruled, confident in their position that they had so rightfully earned, until the satyr Xenagos presented a new threat. By harnessing that same power of devotion, he ascended to godhood himself, revealing an unsightly truth to the gods—they were replaceable.
The sun god Heliod sent his champion, the Planeswalker Elspeth, to destroy Xenagos—and she succeeded. However, the fact that Xenagos ascended at all haunted him. If the people of Theros looked up to Elspeth more than Heliod himself, she would surely take his place in the pantheon. Fearful, Heliod struck Elspeth down in her moment of triumph, casting her into the Underworld to be forgotten.
Elspeth was dead.
But her story was not yet over. Another Planeswalker lurked in the shadows of Theros—the nightmare mage Ashiok. Ashiok lived for fear, believing it to be the great equalizer of all things. Thus, while Elspeth should have received eternal rest in Ilysia, the Underworld haven of fallen heroes, she was instead visited by constant nightmares from her past. Of Daxos, her former love, whom she was tricked into killing. Of Heliod, striking her down with the spear she had wielded in his name. And of her childhood torment at the hands of the wretched Phyrexians.
Two things came of this. Ashiok's visions are more real than most, and in one of them, Elspeth seized Heliod's spear Khrusor. When the vision had passed, a twisted version of the spear remained, dripping with darkness and power. Secondly, Ashiok learned of the Phyrexians' existence and promptly planeswalked away to learn more of these true living nightmares.
Meanwhile, the god Heliod contemplated the fragility of his immortality. He would not allow anyone to take his place in the pantheon—not even the other existing gods. To that end, he pulled the soul of the oracle Daxos and transformed him into his champion in the mortal realm. Now a demigod, Daxos was instructed to remove all trace of the other gods from the great city of Meletis.
The other gods, refusing to stand for such an affront, called upon their own champions from the Underworld; with this, the gods were at war. And when gods clash, mortals suffer the consequences. One such consequence took the form of rifts to the Underworld from which countless monsters poured forth. Erebos, the god of the Underworld, was consumed by this conflict. He hated Heliod most of all, and in his rage, he neglected to keep a tight grip on the souls under his purview.
News travels fast, even in the afterlife, and Elspeth heard talk of rifts to the mortal realm. Realizing her work in the Multiverse was not yet done, Elspeth gripped her shadow spear and headed toward a hidden exit in Erebos's palace—but she wasn't the only one seeking escape.
Klothys was furious. When Xenagos attempted to take her place in the pantheon, she was understandably upset. When countless souls dared defy fate to reverse their own deaths, she was livid. She dispatched countless agents of fate to stop these souls from seeking new life. But for Elspeth's, a Planeswalker's soul, she needed something special. So Klothys weaved her masterpiece—an agent of fate she called Calix. Created solely to carry out the will of Klothys, Calix headed off in pursuit of Elspeth in order to preserve that which should be.
As Elspeth headed toward freedom, she gathered allies. Along her journey, she faced many battles and powerful foes, and she fought them all off. After each victory, she raised her spear high and proclaimed: "Behold, the true Khrusor! Heliod wields a fake!"
She also clashed repeatedly with Calix, emerging victorious every time. After all, she was a seasoned warrior, and he was freshly made. But with each battle, Calix did a little better—he was learning his foe as he learned himself. Still, she defeated him one final time as she reached the exit. Where Heliod awaited her.
Through Daxos, Elspeth's former love, Heliod had learned of her attempted escape. Past the point of reason, Heliod stood in Elspeth's way, refusing her passage out of the Underworld. She could not be allowed to escape. She would be the end of him. She was the cause of all this. Ranting under his breath, he charged Elspeth with his spear Khrusor . . . which promptly shattered in his hands.
For each time Elspeth repeated that her shadowspear was the true Khrusor, the onlooker souls believed her. And it was the power of that belief, that devotion, that caused her lie to simply become truth. Staring down the point of a spear that was no longer his, Heliod yielded. And Erebos laughed.
In Erebos's centuries of existence, no sound had ever pleased him quite like the sound of Heliod's surrender. And Erebos simply took the defeated sun god and placed him beneath a giant boulder, where he would suffer for all eternity, or until he was forgotten by his worshippers above. As for Elspeth, Erebos gifted her his eternal gratitude—and safe passage back to the mortal realm.
After a brief reunion with Daxos, Elspeth planeswalked away. Calix looked on, his very being in agony. It was his purpose to return Elspeth to where she belonged, and now he could no longer reach her. But in his darkest hour, a strange idea sparked within him—and he simply planeswalked after her."
To be continued. This is one of the shortest stories we've ever had from a set. At least there is a story.
The story of Theros Beyond Death
"Elspeth was dead.
But we must begin far before that, centuries ago. Before the gods of Theros rose to power, the titans—horrific primal urges made flesh—roamed the mortal realm, sowing death and destruction in their wake. The mortals, powerless to defend themselves, turned to prayer in their hour of need. From this prayer, this concentrated devotion, sprang forth the gods themselves.
Imbued with incredible power by the faith of mortals, the gods sealed the titans away in the Underworld. Klothys, the god of fate, volunteered to act as jailer and sequestered herself in the Underworld for eternity. While Erebos rules this realm beyond death, it was Klothys who acted as eternal seal, ensuring the titans remained trapped.
And so, the gods ruled, confident in their position that they had so rightfully earned, until the satyr Xenagos presented a new threat. By harnessing that same power of devotion, he ascended to godhood himself, revealing an unsightly truth to the gods—they were replaceable.
The sun god Heliod sent his champion, the Planeswalker Elspeth, to destroy Xenagos—and she succeeded. However, the fact that Xenagos ascended at all haunted him. If the people of Theros looked up to Elspeth more than Heliod himself, she would surely take his place in the pantheon. Fearful, Heliod struck Elspeth down in her moment of triumph, casting her into the Underworld to be forgotten.
Elspeth was dead.
But her story was not yet over. Another Planeswalker lurked in the shadows of Theros—the nightmare mage Ashiok. Ashiok lived for fear, believing it to be the great equalizer of all things. Thus, while Elspeth should have received eternal rest in Ilysia, the Underworld haven of fallen heroes, she was instead visited by constant nightmares from her past. Of Daxos, her former love, whom she was tricked into killing. Of Heliod, striking her down with the spear she had wielded in his name. And of her childhood torment at the hands of the wretched Phyrexians.
Two things came of this. Ashiok's visions are more real than most, and in one of them, Elspeth seized Heliod's spear Khrusor. When the vision had passed, a twisted version of the spear remained, dripping with darkness and power. Secondly, Ashiok learned of the Phyrexians' existence and promptly planeswalked away to learn more of these true living nightmares.
Meanwhile, the god Heliod contemplated the fragility of his immortality. He would not allow anyone to take his place in the pantheon—not even the other existing gods. To that end, he pulled the soul of the oracle Daxos and transformed him into his champion in the mortal realm. Now a demigod, Daxos was instructed to remove all trace of the other gods from the great city of Meletis.
The other gods, refusing to stand for such an affront, called upon their own champions from the Underworld; with this, the gods were at war. And when gods clash, mortals suffer the consequences. One such consequence took the form of rifts to the Underworld from which countless monsters poured forth. Erebos, the god of the Underworld, was consumed by this conflict. He hated Heliod most of all, and in his rage, he neglected to keep a tight grip on the souls under his purview.
News travels fast, even in the afterlife, and Elspeth heard talk of rifts to the mortal realm. Realizing her work in the Multiverse was not yet done, Elspeth gripped her shadow spear and headed toward a hidden exit in Erebos's palace—but she wasn't the only one seeking escape.
Klothys was furious. When Xenagos attempted to take her place in the pantheon, she was understandably upset. When countless souls dared defy fate to reverse their own deaths, she was livid. She dispatched countless agents of fate to stop these souls from seeking new life. But for Elspeth's, a Planeswalker's soul, she needed something special. So Klothys weaved her masterpiece—an agent of fate she called Calix. Created solely to carry out the will of Klothys, Calix headed off in pursuit of Elspeth in order to preserve that which should be.
As Elspeth headed toward freedom, she gathered allies. Along her journey, she faced many battles and powerful foes, and she fought them all off. After each victory, she raised her spear high and proclaimed: "Behold, the true Khrusor! Heliod wields a fake!"
She also clashed repeatedly with Calix, emerging victorious every time. After all, she was a seasoned warrior, and he was freshly made. But with each battle, Calix did a little better—he was learning his foe as he learned himself. Still, she defeated him one final time as she reached the exit. Where Heliod awaited her.
Through Daxos, Elspeth's former love, Heliod had learned of her attempted escape. Past the point of reason, Heliod stood in Elspeth's way, refusing her passage out of the Underworld. She could not be allowed to escape. She would be the end of him. She was the cause of all this. Ranting under his breath, he charged Elspeth with his spear Khrusor . . . which promptly shattered in his hands.
For each time Elspeth repeated that her shadowspear was the true Khrusor, the onlooker souls believed her. And it was the power of that belief, that devotion, that caused her lie to simply become truth. Staring down the point of a spear that was no longer his, Heliod yielded. And Erebos laughed.
In Erebos's centuries of existence, no sound had ever pleased him quite like the sound of Heliod's surrender. And Erebos simply took the defeated sun god and placed him beneath a giant boulder, where he would suffer for all eternity, or until he was forgotten by his worshippers above. As for Elspeth, Erebos gifted her his eternal gratitude—and safe passage back to the mortal realm.
After a brief reunion with Daxos, Elspeth planeswalked away. Calix looked on, his very being in agony. It was his purpose to return Elspeth to where she belonged, and now he could no longer reach her. But in his darkest hour, a strange idea sparked within him—and he simply planeswalked after her."
To be continued. This is one of the shortest stories we've ever had from a set. At least there is a story.
All the cards from Theros Beyond Death are up:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/theros-beyond-death
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/theros-beyond-death
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
My first though about Sentinel's Eyes was that it is creepy as fuck. That art makes me want to not run it.
Also, I don't think it's all that good, but as a recurring aura it's hard to evaluate.
Also, I don't think it's all that good, but as a recurring aura it's hard to evaluate.
I'm a bit disappointed. I was hoping for some nice escape cards in red and green that are worthy for madness aggro, but I don't find a single one. And the black devotion cards also aren't really interesting. In the end I'm jamming Mire Triton and testing Slaughter-Priest of Mogis and that's it :/
If Woe Strider should be too strong, I'd try the vanilla escape creatures like Underworld Charger or Voracious Typhon. Phoenix looks good, Polukranos does so, too.
I also like Sweet Oblivion and Sleep of the Dead.
That's a whopping 7 Escape cards I'll try, although I'm not sure if the vanillas will make the cut.
I also like Sweet Oblivion and Sleep of the Dead.
That's a whopping 7 Escape cards I'll try, although I'm not sure if the vanillas will make the cut.
How unfortunate that this is all we're getting lore-wise from this set. This is the most compelling story that they've had in a while and there's a lot they could have worked with, but they chose to forego it entirely after the WAR debacle. You've got a compelling story, the classic hero's journey, a base from the original Theros block to work off, and an actually compelling character in comparison to your vanilla core cast to follow. But nah we fucked up in our last block narratively so we can't possibly work this one correctly.
WOTC's incompetence to everything tertiary to the card game itself continues to impress and astound me. I was actually looking forward to the lore for the first time in years and they just botched it completely. Amazing.
He would be fitting, but he's sadly a bit too pushed for my cube, I feel like. I was thinking over these:
But the Spider just isn't an aggro card and I don't think it can compete (in that particular deck) with something middling even like Mother Bear. The hound could fit well, but it just doesn't beat any of my 2-drops and just as a madness payoff, there are better things in red I don't run already.
Um... all of the escape cards are good at their respective power level- it's one of the most powerful mechanics in recent memory in my opinion. At the very least, I think your cube would be serviced by running at least Underworld Rage-Hound and Phoenix of Ash. Voracious Typhon is also just a good magic card.
You're not always going to find new cards that are perfect for a very specific niche archetype like G/R madness. That doesn't mean that good cards can't help shore up any holes. Underworld Rage-Hound is a really powerful dork for aggro decks of any kind, and the fact that your madness theme can help you always cast it from the graveyard is gravy. Given the choice between something like Mogg Flunkies or Battlefield Scavenger and the Rage Hound, Hound is usually the card that makes it into the deck, regardless of what archetype my deck technically fits into.
TL;DR: The Escape cards are flexible threats that can go into a variety of decks. They are worth considering even if they aren't exactly what one deck needs because most decks can make use of them.
Heck, even the card game itself they had an issue with last year:
They have changed their product a lot in the last couple of years, they are riding this Arena train pretty strong. I know you need to introduce new players to your game, but don't leave the enfranchised behind.
Heck, even the card game itself they had an issue with last year:
They have changed their product a lot in the last couple of years, they are riding this Arena train pretty strong. I know you need to introduce new players to your game, but don't leave the enfranchised behind.
Don’t forget this one
The card that totally dominated and made sure Oko, Thief of Crowns was nowhere to be seen. Until after it was banned and players started playing Oko.
Do you mind sharing a list of cards you’ve cut? Or a (ci) visual list here?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Why though, was it really that bad? Sure, I can understand why Vorthos is disappointed in the lack of story content with Theros, but there is no lack of story. The set obviously is obviously built on consistent and expanded (compared to the previous time we visited Theros) lore. There's just more blanks to fill, more of your own imagination to use. To me it's a bit like a D&D campaign, where the DM (and the players) tell a lot of the story, but it isn't a fantasy epic like Lord of the Rings where everything is described in detail. It's rough around the edges, but more than serviceable enough as a vehicle for a tcg's world building aspect. We've just gotten a bit spoiled.
As for the set design in the past year, I think it's been stellar. Obviously mistakes were made, and constructed formats have "suffered" for it (though bans have been reasonably adequate, I think?), but I'ld rather they push the envelope and correct mistakes that slipped through the cracks, than that they play it safe and we get another Mercadian Masques. 2019 has been full of exciting cards, and the same goes for Theros. Will every design stick? Of course not, but there should be plenty of cards in every set, including commons and uncommons, that are worth exploring. I did a quick count, and currently 73/450 cards in my cube were first printed in 2019. That's over 16%, a significant impact.
I mean, it's just my opinion, but I don't think we should get carried away by overly negative emotions. WotC is adjusting their approach, and though we have hit some bumps in the road along the way, overall it seems like the game is heading in a more exciting direction from a gameplay perspective, and isn't that what we're here for in the end?
Wheres train masters adds thread? :*
So far I haven't seen any cards that caught my eye. It does seem the overall power level is low. In fact, there are a lot of janky-looking cards in this set. Pehaps it's just that I'm seeing the spoiler but I'm surprised at how...questionable some of the designs are. But I'm sure those "janky rares" already existed in other sets, I just didn't notice.
I'm also not sure of how fun the constellation mechanic is (never played with it). I had some store credit for winning a L5R tournament so I was thinking of spending it in drafting but I think I might get sleeves instead.
I'm also not sure of how fun the constellation mechanic is (never played with it). I had some store credit for winning a L5R tournament so I was thinking of spending it in drafting but I think I might get sleeves instead.
All I meant by some getting cut is that I've initially added 26 cards. So, now my list is like 23 cards too large, and I have to cut something. It's likely that some of the THB cards come back out due to space constraints, but I wanted to see everything together before I make that determination. That said, it's likely a lot of those THB cards stay in. Devotion and graveyard stuff is so good for me.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh ha! I totally interpreted that line as you reacting to some of the posts above lamenting the state of the game, and saying you expected someone, as in one or more WotC employees, to get cut, i.e. sacked. My bad!
I really don't get why people are so upset about this set. Like, even looking at just the white section, there's a bunch of cards that I think could see play at various power levels. Even something as lowly as Nyxborn Courser I can see a use for simply because it's a well statted, devotion fuelling 3 drop that also happens to be an enchantment. I think Daybreak Chimera is one of the sleeper cards of the set. In the right deck it's a 3/3 flying for
, at common! Should be a Pauper/Peasant cube staple at the very least! A lot of these cards don't mesh well with my cube, because it has a multicolor focus at a medium power level (meaning Daxos is too color intensive, Elspeth and Heliod are too powerful, and Eidolon of Obstruction doesn't have enough impact, just to name a few), but even for me there's a few great options.
I like how there's a lot of selfmill, and enchantments that are going to the yard. Makes me want to revisit the Delirium mechanic.
I like how there's a lot of selfmill, and enchantments that are going to the yard. Makes me want to revisit the Delirium mechanic.
That’s a great idea. Expand upon that!