Card/Deck The Mill Thread

So I've been reading through the mtgcube blog that was posted in the Midrange vs Combo thread and stumbled on this article: http://mtgcube.blogspot.com/2016/06/aggro-mill.html?m=1

At first blush, my thought is that this is really fucking poisonous. However, is there a way to make it not? Like, is there a way to seed in a self-mill archetype or reanimation theme so there are multiple ways to use the cards. Like, maybe throw in Bridge from Below or Laboratory Maniac or some kind of Dredge shell? I'm not a fan of tri-color cards, but could Sidisi, Brood Tyrant work here too? There's also stuff like Nephalia Drownyard and Sphinx's Tutelage which could go in this deck and double as control win-cons.

Thoughts?
 
Mill seems like it would be just as poisonous and unfun to play against as storm is. Your opponent spends the entire game putting cards into your graveyard and they either win or lose regardless of what you did. ie. I'm not a big fan of Breaking / Entering -> Mind Funeral -> Glimpse the Unthinkable -> GG

I think mill can be fine as a sort of goofy wincon with things like Nephalia Drownyard, Oona, Queen of the Fae, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver and Blue Sun's Zenith. I think if you want to play out of your graveyard things like Satyr Wayfinder and Grapple With the Past are a lot less poisonous and much more interesting. I can't really envision a deck where I'd rather Mind Funeral myself over something like one of the previously mentioned spells.

I'm not a big fan of the archetype but don't let that discourage you.
 
I'm with Fulcrum on this. Self mill is actually really cool though if you can make it worthwhile. Graveyard as a resource is a great mechanic to build around. But milling an opponent is on/off. Either it straight up wins or it does nothing. So a bit lame.

Storm is more gray area for me. I get the one turn storm win is not interactive for both players, but there are varying levels I feel. Empty the Warrens is more value play than a combo win (outside 100% storm builds). Sequence some stuff and get 6 dudes for 4 mana, etc. I'll concede brain freeze to avoid sounding like a complete hypocrite though. :)
 
Someday I'm going to build novelty cubes where a single given card is available in unlimited quantities to all drafters. Gravecrawler cube is one of 'em, Mesmeric Orb is the other.

More substantially I'll say that Increasing Confusion is one that can work by itself. X=7, flashback for 8 is 23 cards milled, x=8 and then 9 mills 26.

Depends on your suite of blue cards I guess, but mine has a spot for a goofy win con like Confusion.
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member

Goddamn it. That is my line...
I really do love this card. RBM talks about why this card is great and I couldn't say it any better myself.
Mesmeric Orb is pretty much the quirkiest, easily-playable buildaround in my list, and it's loads of fun. It's colourless, so that's obviously a huge boon, and being {2} means you can run it out fairly easily at any time. There are a few scenarios to consider it for, though there's a lot of overlap among them and the list is by no means exhaustive.
  • Control-Mill: This is the purest and most wild version of the deck. Here, you're looking for additional effects to force draws, mill extra, and tap-down, as well as board clog effects like Whirler Rogue and Meloku the Clouded Mirror. There's a lot of tools I've tried on and off over the ages, dialing back down and back up as the strategy intrigues me. Good enablers for mill include Dakra Mystic, Mindshrieker, Altar of Dementia, Reforge the Soul, Magus of the Wheel, and, typically, running a few extra cards in your deck as some extra-super-sneaky tech; even like 3 more cards can help a lot imho (but no more than 5 extra, you still need to draw into your mill!)
  • Living Death/reanimator: less combo win, more value win. This one can get much more complex and would really like for tools to make sure that your reanimated board is best if you're using Living Death, and can sometimes wind up being more of a straightforward reanimator package, though things like Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, and Mardu Woe-Reaper can help keep opposing 'yards in check while still being very cube-worthy includes
  • Aggro-Mill: This is a deck I'd like to feature here in my discussion, because it's kind of a quirky brew and I'm not sure if it's a very obvious possibility. The angle of this deck is to drop the Orb as part of a low-curve deck, and if your opponent is midrange/control, they're gonna get wrecked just by trying to commit to the board or remove your paltry threats. Versus control, their usual cadre of draw spells works against them quite wickedly, which makes the Orb worth saving and dropping a bit late sometimes. A nice tutor effect helps the aggro version of this deck a lot; the point here though is that the mill win is primarily an alternative, rather than necessarily the top plan. Think of it like a cool, anxiety-inducing Devil's Play for guaranteeing you can go the distance if you get stumbled, except your opponent will likely misplay themselves into the loss rather than eating it out of nowhere.
These are just a few highlights; the card can do a lot, and needs exploring in your own format to work out. Often, the correct answer can be to just ignore it or race it if the deck isn't built to maximize on it, but most players don't realize that and startFREAKING OUT and playing terribly, which is hilarious and really fun. Usual mill caveat to consider as part of this whole discussion is some people get really whiny facing against mill and you may need to get less boring friendsconsider how this will translate to mill being present in your format.


Re: Sphinx's Tutelage, if you want a 1-card quirk-piece for blue control/durdle wins, I prefer Increasing Confusion, which takes longer to start happening but cleans up the match quick. Also works just fine with draw-more effects like Magus of the Wheel for accelerating the win/digging for the card itself, and ties into graveyard strategies, if you're dead-serious about them.
My favourite part of the Orb is that it is actually a great control finisher. Once you get to a point where the villian is tapped out. You can play this, mill them for a bunch, then just keep removing their threats. It generally costs more to advance your board than it is to play removal. So then the villian ends up in the 'spiral of doom' where they can't play enough big threats to counteract their own library. It is a great card, it is just a shame that people can't see through the symmetry. They assume they will be milling the same as the opponent, but the fact that you have control to when you play it and they are the first one who mills, make it such the tool to make any mill manic happy.
 
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