General The Pro Tour Sucks
- Thread starter CML
- Start date
Awww. This article makes me feel so sad. Maybe folks here at Riptide can pool our resources to get you some quality hugs, or failing that, some prescription amphetamines!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I've never escaped the comforting clutches of local FNM, prereleases and kitchen table Magic. Attending a Grand Prix (which I assume is similar in experience?) has always been on my bucket list, but each time I have/had the chance to go, I come up with a million ways to better spend my money.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Don Quixote will never laugh at himself
Very, very satisfying article. Well done, CML. As someone who's never attended one, this Gonzo journalism sort of perspective of the Pro Tour is quite illuminating and entertaining.
There were a lot of hilarious gems throughout.
Your final thoughts really resonated well with me. I was a PTQ grinder a couple years ago, and although I did improve immensely, I realized that it wasn't worth all the effort. Driving distances by myself on Saturdays to play Magic against strangers -- with no friends to socialize with -- started to feel more like work than play.
I've been fortunate enough to have made friends with some people through Magic that extended beyond simply playing the game (though this was only true for a period of time during college; I have since made additional friends with whom I only play magic or board games with).
Some of the most fun I've ever had playing Magic was spending weeks with friends developing and testing metagame-hungry Vintage decks, and then "playtesting" the night before a giant Vintage tournament in a hotel somewhere. Usually the playtesting process rapidly deteriorated into vicious drinking games sometimes followed by aimless excursions beyond the hotel. We were pretty hardy back then so the first 6 rounds or so amidst a hangover were manageable. It was rounds 7, 8, and the top 16 where the real physical and mental struggle set in.
Anyway, even though I wanted to succeed at higher level in Limited, I've never been allured by the marketing of Pro Tour coverage. I'm glad that I eventually realized what truly makes the game worth playing. Without the social component, there wouldn't be enough to keep me interested.
lol
There were a lot of hilarious gems throughout.
I'm happy to see that I'm not alone in doing this! Edit: were you raised Catholic as well?
Your final thoughts really resonated well with me. I was a PTQ grinder a couple years ago, and although I did improve immensely, I realized that it wasn't worth all the effort. Driving distances by myself on Saturdays to play Magic against strangers -- with no friends to socialize with -- started to feel more like work than play.
I've been fortunate enough to have made friends with some people through Magic that extended beyond simply playing the game (though this was only true for a period of time during college; I have since made additional friends with whom I only play magic or board games with).
Some of the most fun I've ever had playing Magic was spending weeks with friends developing and testing metagame-hungry Vintage decks, and then "playtesting" the night before a giant Vintage tournament in a hotel somewhere. Usually the playtesting process rapidly deteriorated into vicious drinking games sometimes followed by aimless excursions beyond the hotel. We were pretty hardy back then so the first 6 rounds or so amidst a hangover were manageable. It was rounds 7, 8, and the top 16 where the real physical and mental struggle set in.
Anyway, even though I wanted to succeed at higher level in Limited, I've never been allured by the marketing of Pro Tour coverage. I'm glad that I eventually realized what truly makes the game worth playing. Without the social component, there wouldn't be enough to keep me interested.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Well that was great.
Since starting to regularly read magic content/watch videos its amzing how sterile and anti-social it all is. Video commentary is bland, devoid of personality, and as hyper technical as the nit picky comments viewers leave behind. For a game thats shifted so much towards interactivity in its mechanics, MTGO does little to nothing to facilitate social interaction; as if stuck in a past where the social media revolution never happened.
Since starting to regularly read magic content/watch videos its amzing how sterile and anti-social it all is. Video commentary is bland, devoid of personality, and as hyper technical as the nit picky comments viewers leave behind. For a game thats shifted so much towards interactivity in its mechanics, MTGO does little to nothing to facilitate social interaction; as if stuck in a past where the social media revolution never happened.
I had a hearty chuckle.
That article was great. A couple times I had no idea what you were talking about (something about the content on major sites?), but I think this is my favorite article by you.
So much wrong with 'pro level' magic. Never been impressed with... any, really, of wizards' marketing. Their PR is such a mess.
Part of cube's appeal to me is the generally high skill ceiling + extremely casual, fun games.
The jab at Chapin meeting no response would've been the backbreaker for me as well. Come on, guys.
Part of cube's appeal to me is the generally high skill ceiling + extremely casual, fun games.
The jab at Chapin meeting no response would've been the backbreaker for me as well. Come on, guys.
CML
Contributor
Thanks guys. Upvote this shit below and I'll achieve my greatest fame since Archy of Thune preview
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/34hwp8/this_pt_tournament_report_might_be_the_most/
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/34hwp8/this_pt_tournament_report_might_be_the_most/
1. I remember your TCGplayer writing days. I was a newbie but you were my favorite writer. I missed you when you left.
2. I've visited DC twice and it was nice. Couldn't possibly be as bad as you make Brussels sound.
3. This article was quite the read, and once again left me wondering if I somehow need to work on improving myself to some great degree cuz your snooty to craft interesting tales with intricate words trumps my own abilities. But then again, you do have dat college degree.
EDIT: Almost every reddit commenter bitching about the article or CML in general just reads like this to me:
"WAT IS DIS NO PRAISE OF GRATE TIEM? NO HAPPY GAEM TALEZ? Y SO MUCH SAD MTG IS NO SAD SO I HAET DIS PILE OF CAH-CAH! U IS BAD ELITIST TYPE OF WRITER/PLAYER SO GO B MOAR LIEK MASTER FRANK LEPORE, KTHNX BYE NAO"
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I thought Brussels was quite nice by the way, but then again, I went there on a city trip and saw only the nice parts I guess.
it isn't even this, it's worse. The idea (as i parse it) is that people who are abrasive lack fun and joy, and if they had it they wouldn't be abrasive. Assumed corollaries:
-social contact, even with PT grinders, is fun and joyful
-playing Magic is fun and joyful, playing more Magic is more fun and joyful
-this article is salty, not critical, because the most permitted (only permitted?) way to air issues with competitive Magic is within a very Spikey frustration at loss and 'bad beats' (briefly c.f. GSFs 1 and 2)
Also, the story about nobody even acknowledging the joke is just so sad.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
It says a lot about the game's anti-social tendencies when players can't even conceive as to why someone would evaluate the pro tour from the perspective of a social experience.
I think it just goes to show how far people have fallen from being sophisticated, individual thinkers to being easily herded cattle that rather buy into the illusion that they're living the good life and grinding towards the great life instead of accepting that WotC is really just harvesting them for their flesh, sweat, and blood using a very well designed game as their feed of choice. The same could be said for many groups, nowadays. A little bit of Huxley, a bit of Orwell, and that's us. Or at least sadly inching closer and closer. Especially in the world's greatest oligarchy dressed as democracy, the US.
Magic players always want to get in the pithy jab or the last word. They like finding the chink in any armor.
I think a lot of these redditors are intimidated that they have found in CML more than their match when it comes to scathing insight and obscure criticism, it's probably also bad for their confidence that they can't parse large parts of it, so they retreat to attacking his whole premise and motivation for writing.
"Oh CML is just salty, lol he can't have fun like the rest of us! Now to spend another 20 mintues complaining about counterspell in standard or how bad MODO is, or if that fails, complain about people complaining."
I think a lot of these redditors are intimidated that they have found in CML more than their match when it comes to scathing insight and obscure criticism, it's probably also bad for their confidence that they can't parse large parts of it, so they retreat to attacking his whole premise and motivation for writing.
"Oh CML is just salty, lol he can't have fun like the rest of us! Now to spend another 20 mintues complaining about counterspell in standard or how bad MODO is, or if that fails, complain about people complaining."
Dom Harvey
Contributor
'guy puts up mediocre finish at LoL tournament, makes no new friends, comes home and falls asleep crying on his giant pile of money'
which is to say, I liked the article
which is to say, I liked the article
Welcome to the internet. And everybody seems to have a stick up their ass, even me! I can't stand howl up to tight everyone is, I'm up tight about that.
Anyway, my point is, CML is right about everything, and a talented writer who is improving, and anybody who disagrees is an anonymous internet cretin with a stick of up their ass. Thank God for riptidelab where we act like I individuals. Now let's all go gush over some stupid cube idea.
Btw, I don't really know how reddit works. Who posted the original link to C's article?
You might be on to something here James, I do sorta feel like an outlier here lol.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30717_Burnout-Paradise.html
eat your heart out David Foster Wallace
eat your heart out David Foster Wallace
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I thought this guys post was pretty spot on:
When you compare magic with a lot of these emerging games like hearthstone, the mtg structure looks really outdated. Considering the insane investment of time and money that competitive magic requires, you would think the rewards would be proportional, or that the experience of playing at these events would at least be fun.
im a recent returner to mtg, the last time i played significantly was about 10 years ago (played in a single prerelease in that time and nothing else), and i'm amazed at how far the pro tour has come.
and by that, i mean how it has seemingly not progressed at ALL in the 10 years ive been gone. i picked up dota and now hearthstone in the interim, and dotas prize pools for tournies have exploded. it's at the point that even tournies with reasonable prize pools (5 figures) are ignored by many of the big teams because it's not worth their time and there are so many events to compete in now. valve hosts an event every year, the international, with a prize pool of almost 11 MILLION dollars! ELEVEN FUCKING MILLION DOLLARS FOR ONE EVENT!
compare to the prize structure for a PT: $250k total and $40k to the winner, $10k to 5-8. 4 pro tours a year. if you are on the PT and you get top 8 and lose in the first round in EVERY SINGLE EVENT (which is REALLY REALLY RIDICULOUSLY GOOD), you are looking at $40k per year, which is maybe enough for a studio apartment and with enough left over to avoid food insecurity if you live in a major metropolitan area like SF, LA, chicago, etc. you are literally one of the best players alive if you can pull off 4 consecutive top 8 appearances, and your reward for that is enough to not starve (probably).
i dont see why any young people that want to jump onto the oncoming wave of nerd sports that is starting to build would start playing magic professionally. it makes no sense. you can focus on hearthstone instead and it's way cheaper and has better support. they can play dota or lol or hots and be competing for SERIOUS cash. arteezy, a 18 year old canadian kid, has career winnings of probably around $300-400k and that's not including the salary he pulls for being a member of his team. someone has to place FIRST in TEN pro tour events to win that much! that's winning every single PT for two and a half years. for a long time, there was no option for people that wanted to be professional gamers except mtg, quake (and whatever other FPS games have been popular), and starcraft. now there's real competition in the pro gaming scene and if magic doesnt try to keep up, it might fall to the wayside.
i could rant on about a number of other problems i see with the mtg competitive scene, but this is already getting too long.
TLR; left magic 10 years ago, came back, wizards is totally abusing their competitive player base, and it makes me sad to see.
When you compare magic with a lot of these emerging games like hearthstone, the mtg structure looks really outdated. Considering the insane investment of time and money that competitive magic requires, you would think the rewards would be proportional, or that the experience of playing at these events would at least be fun.