trumangc cube

[trumangc]

These are the goals of my cube:

1. the fun decks are the good decks
2. drafting is never on rails

Here I have outlined the core balance issues I am facing with these goals in mind:

• I’ve spent a lot of time playing the various iterations of the cubes on MTGO. What I’ve found, even as an admittedly average player, is that it is quite easy to go infinite if you just eschew the entertaining and funky decks in favor of the boring ones.
• For as long as I could stand it, which was maybe 20 or so drafts in a row, I only drafted blue control, green ramp, and red aggro in last year’s vintage cube. In the swiss queues (and often enough, the 8-4s), this basically guarantees a 2-1 or 3-0 because so many people love the bad storm decks.
• The reason why storm and similar combo decks fall by the wayside is that the boring decks are much more consistent and lower risk; they care about individual card quality more than the specific interactions between cards, so they can easily adapt to the sorts of cards they are opening or being passed, whereas a storm player has to take on the risk that they might not get the critical mass of enablers and payoff cards necessary for their deck to even function.
• Even if you’re not building literal storm decks into your cube, any sort of combo or heavy synergy strategy is usually difficult to incorporate, especially without making a great concessions in terms of the draft experience.
• The MTGO cubes are obviously terrible, but this is something I often think about when reviewing much more thoughtfully designed cubes: that the fun, synergistic decks simply aren’t worth going after.
• This perception can be caused by a lack of support for those fun decks, or the impression that the payoffs in the fun decks are not powerful enough relative to whatever else is going on in the environment.
• In addition, drafting a deck which is based around synergies is naturally riskier than one where the cards are individually good; you might not open, get passed, or draw the proper enablers and payoffs in the correct ratio or density.
• Back to the goals of my cube: I want as many cards in as many packs as possible to be reasonable picks no matter what archetype a drafter is going for. The way I can accomplish this is to compose my cube primarily of versatile, goodstuff cards.
• At the same time, I want to make sure that fun, synergistic strategies are not only viable, but optimal. Such decks require case-specific cards which are often worthless to other archetypes. This makes drafting more shallow.
• The solution is to determine which archetypes are effortlessly supported by cards that are good enough to play in any case and which as many drafters as possible will be interested in, but are not so rawly powerful that they end up pushing thoughtless goodstuff decks to the top.
• Simply, the less parasitic, more widely applicable, and thereby better for draft a card is, the more it endangers fun, synergy driven strategies and biases my cube in favor of boring decks.
• Take Birthing Pod for example: It’s easy enough to drop a couple Birthing Pods in your cube, and playing and building a deck based around them is possible and enjoyable as long you have a reasonable number of value creatures in your list, but making the Birthing Pod deck actively worth seeking out over traditional goodstuff midrange from the perspective of a minmaxing player is difficult; the upside to warping your draft around Birthing Pod has to make up for the power you give up in some number of individual picks as well as the chance that your deck doesn’t quite get there.
• To fulfill this requirement and maintain a reasonable draft environment, I must figure out which creatures are versatile enough that multiple drafters in multiple archetypes might be interested in them, but are not goodstuffy to the point that the required density of them to support a deck like Birthing Pod ends up invalidating that strategy.

Here is the list I have after a year and a half of irregularly scheduled 4 and 6 person drafts and several revamps: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/54454
This cube, especially since a recent overhaul with these specific design goals, turns out a good few of the cool and fun decks I am looking for mixed in with some boring old goodstuff decks. The two genres seem able to compete with one another in games well enough. The current list restrained by what I own in paper as I don’t like to proxy more than just duals and fetches. I’m generally against customs and rewriting the rules of draft as I want to maintain a baseline of accessibility, but I freely break singleton. There are a number of cards currently in the list, mostly from new sets, which will probably have a short life-span in this cube because I suspect they are either too powerful or too narrow, but I’m still interested in testing them.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Welcome!

This looks really solid.

 

[Dom Harvey]

Drafted a few decks, really like it so far!

 

[shamizy]

I like the ideas and the base you're working off, most of us are likeminded in our approach to cube here, but there were a few issues I noticed when looking over the list + a few drafts I did. The first thing to note is that a good, balanced environment will fall along a power band. If you want more picks to be viable from a given pack or pool of cards, you need them to fall across the same min/max spectrum of power. You do not have any especially bomb-y curvetopping cards, but there are disparities along the curve. For instance, these cards:



Hellrider is an extremely pushed aggressive card that is meant to be a premier curve topper in Red Aggro. Ideally, the Hellrider turn should net you somewhere between 7-8 damage through triggers and certain attackers getting through. Where do Morph creatures fit in here? Will a drafter actually have the luxury of being able to take off T3 to play a 2/2 for 3? Do they have the necessary tools to combat an especially aggressive curve in that strategy? On first glance, I would say that the answer is no. There's also confusion here of what I should be expecting in UG if I see an Icefeather Aven. I would normally assume that there's a morph subtheme there, but I don't seem to see enough support to make that realistic. If I can't ever find an opening to actually play and later flip it, it's kind of a wasted gold slot at that point.

I would also be wary of narrow enablers/payoff cards, specifically these:


Is there a density of morph/manifest cards to make this be a relevant effect? It was very good in Limited and in that one GW Morph deck a while back, but does it translate here? It seems like the ideal scenario is T2 this, T3 morph, T4 unmorph, etc. It seems that morphs are mostly in Bant colors and I'm not sure if they enough interaction currently to be able to actually find the openings to deploy these cards and durdle in the face of efficient threats.


I think I only saw two total energy producers? The other one was Voltaic Brawler who most likely won't be in the same deck ever. If you're using it as just a Mind Control variant that's fine, but as a drafter if I see this card I would think that there's some Ux Energy theme present or another way for me to utilize excess energy.


A fine finisher, but I didn't seem to see a lot of cards with leading up the curve into it. It can definitely function if the drains is for 2-3 life, but people are mostly looking for that big 5-6 point swing to stabilize their board in most cases. Your earlier plays in black all through the 4 drop slot seem to encourage more aggressive shells than grindy ones that would let Gary shine.


I guess this actually works with Gary from before, I could see that shell coming together more here. However, let's say that someone else gets the Merchant for their black deck. Are there enough ways to reset, destroy or bounce the pact? Which shell actually wants it? It's a great grindy card, but decks might not be able to find the opening to safely deploy a 4 mana do nothing until next turn card if they don't have a really nice 5 mana follow-up (or 2 smaller spells) to help stabilize.


These seem like part of some RG Lands package. I don't think there are enough ways to bring back lands in hand for the Vortex (Like Life From the Loam) and Restore in my experience reads and looks way better than it actually plays. You need certain things to happen for an optimal Restore or else it's kind of a waste. The idea of being able to Restore an opponents fetch or something like a Wasteland is awesome, but in most cases its just kind of shitty narrow recursion.


I don't think there's enough of a density of enchantments for this to work as a real engine or payoff type card. You want to be able to interact with enchantment I don't see any real finishers or cards that I would want to work towards. BG would be the best shell (and it was the one with most support from THS block), but you seem to be pushing more towards graveyard oriented decks there with Spider Spawning. It does look like you're going for that theme a little more in GW, but still missing larger payoff cards. If you can't really maximize it in any way, it just ends up being a Striped Bear.
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There is some tuning to be done here and there, but you definitely have the basic shell of ideas to build upon and flesh out. I definitely saw certain themes clearly represented when I drafted it on Cubetutor. Tweaking here and there and analyzing cards on an individual basis should get you to the environment you really want with clear synergistic payoffs and more open-ended drafting. Feel free to ask any questions, most of us are pretty seasoned at this. Hell, most of what we do here is theorycraft anyway

 

[safra]

This is a fun cube and you should be proud of it. I'd play any of these three decks I drafted any day.

 

[trumangc]

Thanks for the feedback and drafts everyone. First, I should probably clarify some of the general strategies I am explicitly trying to support:
Bx Sacrifice
Bx Reanimation/Graveyard
Gx Lands
Gx Birthing Pod
UR Spells
Wx Tokens
I would like to expand this list, but these are the archetypes I have found so far which fit well with the parameters of my design. If anyone has themes to suggest, I’d love to hear them



There are also some A+B sorts of combos which can heavily influence the build of a deck, like Crush of Tentacles+Eternal Witness/Den Protector, Demonic Pact+Bounce/Enchantment Removal, Temur Battle Rage+Become Immense, etc.
Crush+E-Witness is the best kind of these combos, I think, because both cards involved are independently great and a player might even end up with this combo in their deck on accident. Pact is more questionable and I think its playability is dependent on how many bounce effects I can reasonably include. I’ve played a deck with Pact once, and Pact was fantastic, but the card typically ends up in the bottom of a pack. Battle Rage and Become Immense are maybe good enough? The payoff is that you kill your opponent on the spot, but I’m not sure if either card is playable without the other. I’ve tried to tone down cheap, instant speed, targeted removal, as well as the density of burn spells that go face, but I’m not sure how far I need to push in this direction or if it's even worth doing so.


Regarding Shamizy’s specific points:
You’re right about the power band. Icefeather Aven probably sucks, Hellrider is certainly too good. Falkenrath might be too ridiculous, but she is multicolor and she does support sacrifice. I think Stratus Dancer is just a totally playable card in general and she’s been great so far

I’m interested in a potential morph theme, though I wouldn’t say that I’m actively trying to support it right now. The amount of mana that needs to be invested in Mastery before it becomes a good rate is probably just too high unless you really need a control finisher or want to break a midrange or control mirror

Here are creatures with morph I either already have or wouldn’t be embarrassed to run:

I don’t think there’s enough payoff for there to be a ‘morph deck,’ but I could certainly see a grindy GW or GB being spiced up by a Deathmist package

Right now, I’m just testing Confiscation Coup because I’m interested in incidental artifact and enchantment hate. Energy is another mechanic that I think is worth testing, though

As an aside, I’ve briefly toyed with the idea of a bounceland/scryland/fastland/Aether Hub mana base, but I’m not sure if the idea has merit yet

I might be wrong, but I think Gray Merchant is fine to play along with the more aggressive cards as well as the reanimation (especially Living Death). I’m worried about putting cards with strict mana requirements in the 2 and 3 slots, it’s possible that Gray Merchant isn’t worth playing otherwise, though

As I said earlier, you’re correct, Demonic Pact likely requires a higher density of bounce than I currently have

Vortex is kind of loose and it’s been in and out of my cube a couple times, but I think it’s playable in Rx aggro as well as a more dedicated lands strategy

Restore is also questionable, but I’ve had great success with Deathrite and I like the idea of a ramp card that isn’t dead in the late game (can recur a fetch for Titania, bring back a Blighted Cataract). It might be better to just cut it/play more Explores or Edge of Autumns though

Eidolon’s not great. The only other decent constellation card is Doomwake Giant and I think I would need a pretty unconscionable amount of enchantments to make either a reasonable payoff. Probably getting cut soon.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I don't know, it looks pretty reasonable to me: I don't even think the power band is that big of an issue here. There are some lower power cards, but not a big enough density to actively hurt the draft experience, and I don't see any titans or oppositions or other ridiculous cards. There isn't even any sower or glen elendra archmage, which is refreshing. The power band itself seems pretty reasonable, and it seems like you've been both conscious of it, as well as actively working to keep it within reason (probably based off of play results).

Sure, there are maybe some pet cards/themes, or experiment cards, or maybe cards seen from other lists that don't quite fit, but thats normal, and the list looks like its within the usual % of effects like those (if anything its probably doing better).

I was actually pretty excited to see confiscation coup being ran. Energy ineloquence aside, its a unique control magic variant that strikes a good power balance. Its costed reasonably and can pressure the midrange strategies (which tend to dominate this style of cube) but its ceiling is capped, and won't punish players for taking a slightly different approach of investing in single large threats, rather than leading them to sub 3cc threats or 4-6cc ETBs to get around efficient removal.

I would cut the morph cards, and just build a low power, budget cube that incorporates them (or a grid!). This style cube does a particular thing well, showing off a specific set of game elements, and your task is going to be to bring out those elements for your players. When you add in cards disparate to that goal, it gets in the way of achieving the full player experience.

I can tell the format follows riptide principles very closely, to the point where I would be shocked if it came out actively bad. That being said, it suffers from some of the usual holes, and was disappointed that the card population seems to promise a lackluster UG experience, though if you have any decklists I would love to be proven wrong.

I like that you appear attentive of R/G color identity, though I always worry about the viability of the lands deck against its U/x competition, seeing as blue can become overpowered in a format so easily. You don't seem to really have the usual blue offenders (but ponder/preordain!) so maybe everything is fine.

Would like to see a B/W deck, though it looks like you're fine with the caw blade strategy.

 

[trumangc]

http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/54454

I’ve barely drafted my cube or played any magic in more than 6 months, but I’ve been changing things around for the past month or two based on the couple of 4 person drafts and solo playtesting I’ve managed. Broad strokes changes involved removing some of the lingering overpowered stuff from previous builds, and cutting a ton of one drops. Removal of overpowered cards doesn’t need anymore explanation. I’m sure there are still some I should probably get out (Smuggler’s Copter, Zealous Conscripts, Fiery Confluence, Cloudgoat Ranger, and Dragonlord Silumgar are a few). I removed a couple types of one drops: mana dorks and stuff that was only good in aggro. Mana dorks left because they occasionally lead to unbeatable openings, and are useless in the late game. In their place, I have a few more Rampant Growth effects, since some of those (Edge of Autumn, Explore) can cycle in the late game, and playing a four drop of turn three isn’t quite as bad as a three drop on turn two, followed by four drop on turn three. This sort of card is also better support for the big mana, land-centric green decks I’m interested in pushing. Lots of aggro one drops were axed due to narrowness. I left those which I felt had the most application to other archetypes.

I’ve added lots of support for a Wx blink deck with Glimmerpoint Stag, Felidar Guardian, Vizier of Deferment, Panharmonicon (this one’s likely too narrow), etc. I think this deck is reasonable, as most all the cards involved are, I believe, playable individually. Most other additions have been in service of improving already existing archetypes in this cube.

Here are some individual cards I have opinions on:


I had two copies of this card in my cube for a long time. I never saw a deck come together around Birthing Pod. I think this card requires to the drafter to jump through too many hoops for far too little gain.


I really don’t think this card is broken at all. I guess that it could have something to do with my particular environment, but I had this card in my cube through a lot of revisions and I never saw it do anything close to unfair. Regardless, I cut it because it doesn’t contribute to the strategies I’m pushing in any unique way. I could see bringing it back in at some point.


Always fun to play with or against. Highly recommend this over FoF at most power levels.


I like this one. I think I’m at least close to the requisite number of enablers for it to be actively good. The last couple sets have added some more cubable enchantment removal, which helps a lot.


This card is really cool and actually quite strong, though I probably run an above average number of high-end instant and sorcery cards. I think this card deserves more attention in any case.



Converge is great mechanic for fixing-heavy cubes because it makes people interested in lands that only have one of their colors. I want to try out more converge cards and I hope it comes back soon.