General Untap-Based Ramp

[sigh]

Sure, if you want to take apart the semantics of flexible versus unpredictable and how one leads to the other then that's fine, but the point remains that there are holes in the archetype and that they make the deck unwieldy. My issue with hybrid untap-flash decks is that they're an even more narrow subset of both flash and untap decks, needing one of a very small pool of cards to function as such. That's great as a single-card archetype type of deck, but if you want to make it a tentpole of your format you're fighting an uphill battle.

There really aren't holes, at least the ones you seem to be stuck on. Why does the deck need grade A creatures at every single slot? Or for every single creature in the deck to have flash? Would you have the same concern about the creature curve in, say, a spells-matter deck?

The flash deck I ran in constructed played loxodon smiter, armada wurm, and detention sphere. The flash via things like advent of the wurm and selesnya charm was just one piece of the deck toolbox. A major piece, but still still one piece.

The original point that was being made is that instant speed stuff naturally fits as an outlet for untapping some lands.* Should it be a centerpiece archetype, or should including flash be the centerpiece of that untap archetype? Maybe not. Were you ever trying to make a "tentpole" archetype with this thread though?

*

i think you’re more likely to come up with a working archetype here if you focus less on “untap lands to make big mana” and more on “do something on my turn, untap some lands, do something on opponents turn.”

Basically, usage of untapped mana to cast instant speed stuff on the opponents turn was offered as one solution in a potential suite of solutions alongside X spells, traditional beefcakes, and other things discussed above. I'm confused as to why it seems to have morphed into "flash would need to be the entire workable archetype", and confused why "flash as the entire archetype needs to operate entirely like a curve out midrange deck but instant". Also confused how joining the tools of two deck concepts becomes more narrow than sticking with one.

 

[Zoss]

It's neat that you made a deck for constructed, and the deck sound pretty sweet, too! However, it's not doing what I'm interested in. Thanks for sharing!

There really aren't holes, at least the ones you seem to be stuck on. Why does the deck need grade A creatures at every single slot? Or for every single creature in the deck to have flash? Would you have the same concern about the creature curve in, say, a spells-matter deck?

Because I want the decks to work that way, it's not strictly necessary but I want them to, and yes. Kinda confused myself as to why you'd ever not be concerned with curve to some extent, tbh.

Were you ever trying to make a "tentpole" archetype with this thread though?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking to do with ramp, I just don't like Llanowar Elves and co.

 

[blacksmithy]

i’m not gonna continue trying to flog the dead horse of a flash deck, but if you cast both a 2 mana and 1 mana spell on turn 3, arguably, that’s more powerful than a single 3 mana spell. alternatively you could cast a 2 mana ramp spell (signet or whatever) then use the remaining 2 mana you now have to cast a 2 mana instant spell. there is no rule that says you have to wait to lategame to start double spelling

EDIT: example double spell lines for the Bant deck might include; Clarion Spirit+Abundant Harvest; Jolrael+Cantrip; Snapcaster Mage+Spell Pierce; Stoneforge Mystic+Bonesplitter; Brainstorm+Squadron Hawk…. delicious

 

[sigh]

At the very least I think some additional utility instants should be considered. Things like