General [WAR] War of the Spark
- Thread starter Velrun
- Start date
Having drafted the set a few times on Arena now, I'm a little concerned about all the passives on the planeswalkers. People forget about them CONSTANTLY, and in a cube environment we don't have a computer to enforce the rules. I can't count how many times people (including me) have tried to make me sac stuff with Tamiyo out, or draw a ton of cards with Narset out, or hold up removal with Kasmina on the board and then get real confused as to why they can't cast the spell.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Truth, Ihad this at the prerelease, where we both realized we fucked up the game state because I cast a Band Together eot that I couldn't actually pay for thanks to Dovin, Hand of Control. I then cast it on my turn, only to have my opponent realize, as he was moving his creature to his graveyard for the second time, that he also had The Wanderer out. Years of planeswalkers with activated abilities only have conditioned us to ignore them while evaluating lines of play, other than "how can I remove that walker asap?" I feel this is the biggest "problem" on the walkers that have a static ability that hinders the opponent. I've not once see anyone make a mistake with, say, Saheeli, Sublime Artificer or Vraska, Swarm's Eminence. Moreover, I think the problem is exacerbated by the sheer number of planeswalkers in War of the Spark. I expect this will be much less of a problem in our cubes. I don't think we should shy away from putting the static ability planeswalkers into our cubes, as long as we keep an eye on their as fan a bit.
That has probably something to do with the players’ mind set. On Arena people are not truly ‘there’ and are often not totally focused on the game. Maybe a TV show is running in the background etc.
During a draft where you have an actual human being sitting in front of you = Total devotion to the game. Take a sip of your Coke and them back to the battlefield and hand.
I am not worried about enchantment effects when playing with real people.
During a draft where you have an actual human being sitting in front of you = Total devotion to the game. Take a sip of your Coke and them back to the battlefield and hand.
I am not worried about enchantment effects when playing with real people.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
My example happened at the local prerelease. Where both players where paying attention, and both players missed not one, but two! static planeswalkers abilities.
I'm just thinking that maybe MaRo was on to something with this limiting board complexity thing. Incidentally, Magic was just officially declared the World's Most Complex Game.
LSV said something interesting about the planeswalkers on the Limited Resources first impressions show: many of the walkers, especially at uncommon, have abilities that let your opponent cast their cards but then the cards don't work. Narset and The Wanderer are the two main culprits I can think of, but there's a couple of others that are bit more niche, like Tamiyo and Ashiok. He was not a big fan of this, and preferred stuff like Dovin (well, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben was the example used, but close enough) where if you forget his ability it at least just stops you casting your card, it doesn't let it resolve and do nothing.
Incidentally, after 5-6 drafts in, Dovin has gone way up in my expectations. I thought he was barely playable but I'd now consider him similar to something like Gideon's Lawkeeper, and he gets exponentially better the more planeswalkers you have as he protects them so well. I do keep forgetting that his -1 prevents damage from and to the targetted creature, so I -1 on their flier then attack in with mine, but luckily my opponents seem to forget that's the case too and let me through!
Incidentally, after 5-6 drafts in, Dovin has gone way up in my expectations. I thought he was barely playable but I'd now consider him similar to something like Gideon's Lawkeeper, and he gets exponentially better the more planeswalkers you have as he protects them so well. I do keep forgetting that his -1 prevents damage from and to the targetted creature, so I -1 on their flier then attack in with mine, but luckily my opponents seem to forget that's the case too and let me through!
Dovin is an interesting design. He's different than a normal pacifism effect because he actually makes it harder to attack through a blocker and he goes away eventually. His tax effect also becomes less relevant the longer the game goes on. But he is fantastic at what he does, which is slowing the game down. If all you want to do is survive to hit your land drops so you can get a big swing turn later in the game, Dovin is your guy. He is even extra easy to cast, to maximize your chances of getting him down when he can most effect the game. He is almost a pure control card, as befits his personality.
I had a big discussion with it.
The title is extremely misleading. Imagine that I gave you my grade 12 math homework and you scored 100%. I then declare you the smartest person in the world because you scored 100% on my math homework. Not only that, but I've given the same test to other before and dozens have also scored 100% on the test. Wouldn't you be willing to call bullshit?
Magic has been shown to be able to replicate an Universal Turing Machine. Gross simplification: When you do so, you can essentially code anything, in fact, you can even represent a well known computer science problem that is known to be undecidable (the halting problem). This means that computers can't solve it, no matter the amount of processing they do. They argue that since that problem is undecidable, magic as a whole has the same complexity class.
Here are a few issues:
1. I am not an expert, but I don't think this is the highest "complexity class". (I think it sort of does transcend complexity classes as this is just undecidablility, using complexity classes at this point is a bit... wrong?)
2. This is a small subset of magic. This article makes it seem like regular games of magic fit this "World's Most Complex Game". This is only true in games that start like this (from this PDF, badly copy pasted https://arxiv.org/pdf/1904.09828.pdf):
This is the game state:
Alice has no choices throughout this process: she does control one land, but it remains permanently tapped because of Choke (“Islands don’t untap during their controllers untap steps”), so she is unable to cast any of the spells she draws except via Wild Evocation’s ability. Neither player is able to attack because they both control a Blazing Archon, “Creatures can’t attack you.” Bob has no cards in hand and controls Recycle, which reads (in part) “Skip your draw step”. This prevents Bob from losing due to drawing from an empty library.
Using these cards (with their purpose): [page 7 of the above link]
4 Ancient Tomb Bootstrap 1 Rotlung Reanimator Logic processing 1 Xathrid Necromancer Change state
4 Lotus Petal Bootstrap 1 Cloak of Invisibility Logic processing 1 Mesmeric Orb Change state
4 Grim Monolith Infinite mana device 1 Infest Logic processing 1 Coalition Victory Halting device
4 Power Artifact Infinite mana device 1 Cleansing Beam Logic processing 1 Prismatic Omen Halting device
4 Gemstone Array Infinite mana device 1 Soul Snuffers Logic processing 1 Choke Halting device
4 Staff of Domination Draw rest of deck 1 Illusory Gains Logic processing 1 Recycle Remove choices
1 Memnarch Make token copies 1 Privileged Position Logic processing 1 Blazing Archon Remove choices
1 Stolen Identity Make token copies 1 Steely Resolve Logic processing 1 Djinn Illuminatus Simplify setup
1 Artificial Evolution Edit cards 1 Vigor Logic processing 1 Reito Lantern Simplify setup
1 Olivia Voldaren Edit cards 1 Fungus Sliver Logic processing 1 Claws of Gix Simplify setup
1 Glamerdye Edit cards 1 Dread of Night Logic processing 1 Riptide Replicator Set up tape
1 Prismatic Lace Edit cards 1 Wild Evocation Forced play device 1 Capsize Set up tape
1 Donate Edit card control 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon Forced play device 1 Karn Liberated Cleanup after setup
1 Reality Ripple Edit card phase 1 Shared Triumph Infinite tape device 1 Fathom Feeder Cleanup after setup
to get something resembling this: [page 5 of the above link]
Whenever an Aetherborn dies, create a 2/2 white Sliver q1 −→1 ←−1 1 Rq1 Whenever a Basilisk dies, create a 2/2 green Elf q1 ←−1 c2 Lq1 Whenever a Cephalid dies, create a 2/2 white Sliver q1 −→1 1 1 Rq1 Whenever a Demon dies, create a 2/2 green Aetherborn q1 ←−1 1 −→1 1 Lq1 Whenever an Elf dies, create a 2/2 white Demon q1 b ←−b Rq1 Whenever a Faerie dies, create a 2/2 green Harpy q1 −→b ←− b 1 Rq1 Whenever a Giant dies, create a 2/2 green Juggernaut q1 ←−b b Lq1 Whenever a Harpy dies, create a 2/2 white Faerie q1 −→b 1 b Rq1 Whenever an Illusion dies, create a 2/2 green Faerie q1 ←−b 1 −→b 1 Lq1 Whenever a Juggernaut dies, create a 2/2 white Illusion q1 b2 b3 Lq2 Whenever a Kavu dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Leviathan q1 b3 −→b 1 Lq2 Whenever a Leviathan dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Illusion q1 c −→1 Lq2 Whenever a Myr dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Basilisk q1 −→c ←−c Rq1 Whenever a Noggle dies, create a 2/2 green Orc q1 ←−c −→c 1 Lq1 Whenever an Orc dies, create a 2/2 white Pegasus q1 −→c 1 ←−c 1 Rq2 Whenever a Pegasus dies, create a tapped 2/2 green Rhino q1 ←−c 1 HALT Whenever a Rhino dies, create a 2/2 blue Assassin q1 c2 ←−1 Rq1 Whenever a Sliver dies, create a 2/2 green Cephalid q2 1 ←−1 Rq2 Whenever an Aetherborn dies, create a 2/2 green Cephalid q2 −→1 ←−1 Rq2 Whenever a Basilisk dies, create a 2/2 green Cephalid q2 ←−1 −→1 Lq2 Whenever a Cephalid dies, create a 2/2 white Basilisk q2 −→1 1 ←−1 1 Rq2 Whenever a Demon dies, create a 2/2 green Elf q2 ←−1 1 1 Lq2 Whenever an Elf dies, create a 2/2 white Aetherborn q2 b b2 Rq1 Whenever a Faerie dies, create a tapped 2/2 green Kavu q2 −→b ←−b Rq2 Whenever a Giant dies, create a 2/2 green Harpy q2 ←−b −→b Lq2 Whenever a Harpy dies, create a 2/2 white Giant q2 −→b 1 ←− b 1 Rq2 Whenever an Illusion dies, create a 2/2 green Juggernaut q2 ←−b 1 −→b Lq2 Whenever a Juggernaut dies, create a 2/2 white Giant q2 b2 b Rq1 Whenever a Kavu dies, create a tapped 2/2 green Faerie q2 b3 ←− b 1 Rq2 Whenever a Leviathan dies, create a 2/2 green Juggernaut q2 c ←−c Rq2 Whenever a Myr dies, create a 2/2 green Orc q2 −→c ←−c Rq2 Whenever a Noggle dies, create a 2/2 green Orc q2 ←−c −→c Lq2 Whenever an Orc dies, create a 2/2 white Noggle q2 −→c 1 c2 Rq2 Whenever a Pegasus dies, create a 2/2 green Sliver q2 ←−c 1 c2 Lq1 Whenever a Rhino dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Sliver q2 c2 c Lq2 Whenever a Sliver dies, create a 2/2 white Myr
Alice has no choices throughout this process: she does control one land, but it remains permanently tapped because of Choke (“Islands don’t untap during their controllers untap steps”), so she is unable to cast any of the spells she draws except via Wild Evocation’s ability. Neither player is able to attack because they both control a Blazing Archon, “Creatures can’t attack you.” Bob has no cards in hand and controls Recycle, which reads (in part) “Skip your draw step”. This prevents Bob from losing due to drawing from an empty library.
Using these cards (with their purpose): [page 7 of the above link]
4 Ancient Tomb Bootstrap 1 Rotlung Reanimator Logic processing 1 Xathrid Necromancer Change state
4 Lotus Petal Bootstrap 1 Cloak of Invisibility Logic processing 1 Mesmeric Orb Change state
4 Grim Monolith Infinite mana device 1 Infest Logic processing 1 Coalition Victory Halting device
4 Power Artifact Infinite mana device 1 Cleansing Beam Logic processing 1 Prismatic Omen Halting device
4 Gemstone Array Infinite mana device 1 Soul Snuffers Logic processing 1 Choke Halting device
4 Staff of Domination Draw rest of deck 1 Illusory Gains Logic processing 1 Recycle Remove choices
1 Memnarch Make token copies 1 Privileged Position Logic processing 1 Blazing Archon Remove choices
1 Stolen Identity Make token copies 1 Steely Resolve Logic processing 1 Djinn Illuminatus Simplify setup
1 Artificial Evolution Edit cards 1 Vigor Logic processing 1 Reito Lantern Simplify setup
1 Olivia Voldaren Edit cards 1 Fungus Sliver Logic processing 1 Claws of Gix Simplify setup
1 Glamerdye Edit cards 1 Dread of Night Logic processing 1 Riptide Replicator Set up tape
1 Prismatic Lace Edit cards 1 Wild Evocation Forced play device 1 Capsize Set up tape
1 Donate Edit card control 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon Forced play device 1 Karn Liberated Cleanup after setup
1 Reality Ripple Edit card phase 1 Shared Triumph Infinite tape device 1 Fathom Feeder Cleanup after setup
to get something resembling this: [page 5 of the above link]
Whenever an Aetherborn dies, create a 2/2 white Sliver q1 −→1 ←−1 1 Rq1 Whenever a Basilisk dies, create a 2/2 green Elf q1 ←−1 c2 Lq1 Whenever a Cephalid dies, create a 2/2 white Sliver q1 −→1 1 1 Rq1 Whenever a Demon dies, create a 2/2 green Aetherborn q1 ←−1 1 −→1 1 Lq1 Whenever an Elf dies, create a 2/2 white Demon q1 b ←−b Rq1 Whenever a Faerie dies, create a 2/2 green Harpy q1 −→b ←− b 1 Rq1 Whenever a Giant dies, create a 2/2 green Juggernaut q1 ←−b b Lq1 Whenever a Harpy dies, create a 2/2 white Faerie q1 −→b 1 b Rq1 Whenever an Illusion dies, create a 2/2 green Faerie q1 ←−b 1 −→b 1 Lq1 Whenever a Juggernaut dies, create a 2/2 white Illusion q1 b2 b3 Lq2 Whenever a Kavu dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Leviathan q1 b3 −→b 1 Lq2 Whenever a Leviathan dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Illusion q1 c −→1 Lq2 Whenever a Myr dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Basilisk q1 −→c ←−c Rq1 Whenever a Noggle dies, create a 2/2 green Orc q1 ←−c −→c 1 Lq1 Whenever an Orc dies, create a 2/2 white Pegasus q1 −→c 1 ←−c 1 Rq2 Whenever a Pegasus dies, create a tapped 2/2 green Rhino q1 ←−c 1 HALT Whenever a Rhino dies, create a 2/2 blue Assassin q1 c2 ←−1 Rq1 Whenever a Sliver dies, create a 2/2 green Cephalid q2 1 ←−1 Rq2 Whenever an Aetherborn dies, create a 2/2 green Cephalid q2 −→1 ←−1 Rq2 Whenever a Basilisk dies, create a 2/2 green Cephalid q2 ←−1 −→1 Lq2 Whenever a Cephalid dies, create a 2/2 white Basilisk q2 −→1 1 ←−1 1 Rq2 Whenever a Demon dies, create a 2/2 green Elf q2 ←−1 1 1 Lq2 Whenever an Elf dies, create a 2/2 white Aetherborn q2 b b2 Rq1 Whenever a Faerie dies, create a tapped 2/2 green Kavu q2 −→b ←−b Rq2 Whenever a Giant dies, create a 2/2 green Harpy q2 ←−b −→b Lq2 Whenever a Harpy dies, create a 2/2 white Giant q2 −→b 1 ←− b 1 Rq2 Whenever an Illusion dies, create a 2/2 green Juggernaut q2 ←−b 1 −→b Lq2 Whenever a Juggernaut dies, create a 2/2 white Giant q2 b2 b Rq1 Whenever a Kavu dies, create a tapped 2/2 green Faerie q2 b3 ←− b 1 Rq2 Whenever a Leviathan dies, create a 2/2 green Juggernaut q2 c ←−c Rq2 Whenever a Myr dies, create a 2/2 green Orc q2 −→c ←−c Rq2 Whenever a Noggle dies, create a 2/2 green Orc q2 ←−c −→c Lq2 Whenever an Orc dies, create a 2/2 white Noggle q2 −→c 1 c2 Rq2 Whenever a Pegasus dies, create a 2/2 green Sliver q2 ←−c 1 c2 Lq1 Whenever a Rhino dies, create a tapped 2/2 white Sliver q2 c2 c Lq2 Whenever a Sliver dies, create a 2/2 white Myr
3. There are MANY more games that are also shown to be able to replicate UTMs: Little Big Planet, a Generalized Minesweeper, Dwarf Fortress, some Mario Games, Minecraft, Braid, Terraria, so on.
Imagine an article saying "Minesweeper has been officially declared World's Most Complex Game". I'd call bullshit.
I actually am interested in making a follow up article calling out the previous one. "Prior article is wrong, Minecraft was actually the world's most complex game."
This kind of stuff is my pet peeve.
Having studied my fair share of complexity theory, here's my two cent:
Turning complete is literally the highest complexity class. It might not be a satisfying lower bound, but it is. If one could have a computing device which could solve the undecidability problem, you'd be able to compute the solution to any problem ever, including the undeciability problem. Hence why it's "the most complex." I will admit "World's Most Complex Game" is a dubious, but not incorrect title. I think a more fair title might be "Magic belong to a class of games that are the Most Complex Games".
I can't tell if you're peeved about complexity theory or if you're peeved about media headlines.
Thank you for the correction, I'm assuming all the talk about "super Turing"/Hypercomputation are simply stating what we'd need to be able to solve these types of problems, but not that we have problems that we'd consider more complex?
I think I have a big issue with headlines/media.
As for this:
Stating that "12 year old find in his basement Hardest Object on Earth" is misleading if he found one of the many diamonds in existence in his basement (assuming we didn't have anything harder yet). I'd consider it almost an outright lie.
"Magic belong to a class of games that are the Most Complex Games" is actually true though, and would be a much better article title.
I think I have a big issue with headlines/media.
As for this:
Stating that "12 year old find in his basement Hardest Object on Earth" is misleading if he found one of the many diamonds in existence in his basement (assuming we didn't have anything harder yet). I'd consider it almost an outright lie.
"Magic belong to a class of games that are the Most Complex Games" is actually true though, and would be a much better article title.
Well, remember, complexity proofs almost always proceed by a reduction to SAT or a Turing reduction (or some similar strategy) so they are "the same" in a more formal way than two diamonds are... But you're definitely right, the word "Complex" is being used here (misleadingly) in a formal sense, but not in a way meaningfully related to how we use the word in every day language. The theory that would more closely match the way you're thinking about "complex" would come from approximate dynamic programming/optimal control (or if you're hip you call it "reinforcement learning" these days).
That usually just means you're smarter in the ways that count lol.
I am not saying this is true but here goes: Maybe it was just you and your opponent who didn’t pay proper attention to the battlefield?
Do you think I should worry about adding these four to my cube?
I didn’t worry up until now. But maybe I should?
I am not saying this is true but here goes: Maybe it was just you and your opponent who didn’t pay proper attention to the battlefield?
Do you think I should worry about adding these four to my cube?
I didn’t worry up until now. But maybe I should?
Where's your cube list? Are you doing a rebuild?
I would only worry about Liliana, Dreadhorde General, the other three are just generally pretty fun. Teferi seems really powerful, but he isn't all that oppressive. Hero of Dominaria and Venser are way worse in that regard.
Saheeli is just slightly more flexible Young Pyromancer
I think all of the 3 CMC options are fine to run, I'm a little more wary about Liliana though. That static ability changes it from a decent card into something that can completely warp the game around her. I do think she has interesting play to her, but I'm not exactly sure where her power level is at. She's not quite on the level of Elspeth, Sun's Champion, but she's pretty high up there. I'd put her somewhere firmly in the middle of Noxious Gearhulk and Grave Titan on my first impression. I think she's a good fit for a powerful cube environment and Black is kind of starving for a big finisher at 6+ CMC, but this is one to keep an eye on.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Well, that's my point. I don't know how experienced my opponent is, exactly, but I've seen him at various prereleases for a few years now, and he plays well enough. As for me though, I'm a tcg fan, playing other games like Hearthstone and Eternal, besides Magic. I've been a rules advisor (when the entry level for judging still was a non-judge title) in the past, and while I'm by no means a pro, I do consider myself aware of the game state. I'm the guy reminding players that "you can't do that" or "that doesn't work the way you think it does" in our Commander games. And I missed both of those static abilities. Because they're in a spot where you don't expect them *and* because they're not on your cards but on your opponent's. Keeping track of The Wanderers of this set (i.e. the detrimental static abilities on planeswalkers your opponents control) seemed to require more mental attention than I could muster, and I consider myself above average as far as keeping track of what's going on on the battlefield goes.
Do you think I should worry about adding these four to my cube?
I didn’t worry up until now. But maybe I should?
Are you worrying about power level or about people missing the static ability? If the latter, Liliana and Saheeli are completely fine. As I mentioned (I think), I didn't see people trip up over positive static abilities that affected the owner themselves. Teferi and Ashiok are in the "oops, I forgot it did that too" category, though I wouldn't exclude them just because of that. Just don't include too many of them.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
A lot of the passive apply more in tournament magic /arena / modo as well, where you can't take something back.
Like I'd you duress your opponent when they have new tamiyo in play, it just goes to your graveyard and does nothing. Probably should have attacked and killed her first.
Now when you're cubing with someone, I usually just go "that doesn't work because of tamiyo, feel free to take it back"
Tefri is good but not insane. Take a look at how many instants only work on you opponents turn (counterspells duh, but also wing shards or flash creatures, etc). His plus is cool and not oppressive in any way,and you'll likely be happy anytime someone does something cool with it.
Ashiok is a lot like the last time around: it wins you the game singlehandedly if they can't deal with it. It's easier to deal with this time, but I don't love cards like that on the best of days. The passive is irrelevant given how powerful this much mill is in limited.
Sahelli is awesome. Highly recommend, and also recommend the adorable new servo tokens from this set
Like I'd you duress your opponent when they have new tamiyo in play, it just goes to your graveyard and does nothing. Probably should have attacked and killed her first.
Now when you're cubing with someone, I usually just go "that doesn't work because of tamiyo, feel free to take it back"
Lili seems more powerful than noxious gear hulk but below grave titan. Maybe worse if boards are regularly 2-3 creatures total (Removal density, tokens, etb guys can all contribute to this)I am not saying this is true but here goes: Maybe it was just you and your opponent who didn’t pay proper attention to the battlefield?
Do you think I should worry about adding these four to my cube?
I didn’t worry up until now. But maybe I should?
Tefri is good but not insane. Take a look at how many instants only work on you opponents turn (counterspells duh, but also wing shards or flash creatures, etc). His plus is cool and not oppressive in any way,and you'll likely be happy anytime someone does something cool with it.
Ashiok is a lot like the last time around: it wins you the game singlehandedly if they can't deal with it. It's easier to deal with this time, but I don't love cards like that on the best of days. The passive is irrelevant given how powerful this much mill is in limited.
Sahelli is awesome. Highly recommend, and also recommend the adorable new servo tokens from this set
This Ashiok, like the last ashiok, can win the game on its own. In a cube, I'm sure it's somewhat less capable, but it's felt pretty obnoxious to me in draft and I don't see any upside to including it in a cube.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
It only mills 20, I don't see how that equates to winning on its own? I think new Ashiok is pretty sweet as part of a mill package that doesn't run the risk of handing your opponent all kinds of goodies through graveyard recursion on their part. I know I'm not alone in this sentiment in my playgroup either.
If you milled 20 with ashiok, you opponent also drew at least 4 cards during that time. Assuming they kept a 7 card hand they're already down to 9 cards in their library. Most decks also want/do draw a few cards on top of their 1 draw per turn. Stalling a game for a few more turns in the WAR format isn't that hard from what I've seen. It's often rather slow. I've been decked by Ashiok and I've decked people with Ashiok with no additional mill cards. A board stall turns into a slow, miserable death for the receiving player. You could argue the semantics of whether or not that's "Ashiok on its own" if you want.
In general I really don't see the appeal of mill in (especially retail) limited. 40 card decks are just too small. Clearly opinions differ, though, so if your players want to mill, try Ashiok, I guess. It certainly mills.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Note that the new Ashiok also work really well in a self-mill deck. While it always exiles your opponent's graveyard, it actually mills any target. Laboratory Maniac fans rejoice! 
Okay here goes:
Starting deck size: 40
Starting hand: 7 cards = 33 cards left
Ashiok cost: 3 = 30 left
Mills for 5x4: 20 = 10 left
10 cards in the library when Ashiok resolves. This is useless against aggro but can be game-winning against control if they cannot deal damage to Ashiok. This is a sideboard card against control and the reason why I want it in my cube.
Also any planeswalker that gets to stay on the board for five turns mean trouble for the opponent. Aggro can directly attack walkers and control can target them with removal. If you have neither then you are in trouble no matter what.
Starting deck size: 40
Starting hand: 7 cards = 33 cards left
Ashiok cost: 3 = 30 left
Mills for 5x4: 20 = 10 left
10 cards in the library when Ashiok resolves. This is useless against aggro but can be game-winning against control if they cannot deal damage to Ashiok. This is a sideboard card against control and the reason why I want it in my cube.
Also any planeswalker that gets to stay on the board for five turns mean trouble for the opponent. Aggro can directly attack walkers and control can target them with removal. If you have neither then you are in trouble no matter what.