Sets WOTC - Shadows over Innistrad Cube All-Stars

genericco

genericco

Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

I think it's generally a good article. Most of her list had me nodding along in agreement, though I don't run double-faced cards, and even if I did Avacyn would still be over my cube's power level. Fevered Visions threw me for a loop, though. Is there something I'm missing here? It reads as Howling Mine you have to pay {1}{U}{R} for with not enough upside to justify the cost.
 
genericco

genericco

I don't think you're missing anything. It's a dubious include in cube lists, I can't imagine it getting drafted on purpose very often and I don't think "what's not to love?" is the right question to be asking about that card in cube. Especially if, as is suggested in the next paragraph, the cube is running the all-time great one-sided blue draw spells.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I have actually looked to include it, but haven't found space yet. I think the card likely plays much better than it reads. If you're the aggressive deck, it stands to reason that you can deploy the extra cards earlier than your opponent, plus it actually gives some (or a lot of) reach because the card deals 2 damage to your opponent each turn as long as she can't keep the number of cards in her hand below three. 2 damage each turn is a lot! And if you drop it early, this card will easily deal 6 damage or more during a game.

...

I'm talking myself into playing this card. Oh gosh, drawing an extra card each turn is so good in the play two spells archetype (Jori En, Ruin Diver, Spellwrithe, Incursion Specialist) which is, coincidentally, already in {U/R}! Which card to cut though...
 
shamizy

shamizy

Fevered Visions is a goofy card for sure and it can definitely backfire on you, but I had a lot of fun proxying up and playing the UR Fevered Visions/Thing In The Ice deck that cropped up after SOI released. It's deceptively strong, that damage does add up over time. I'm not sure of how much worse it is in Cube with lower mana curves and whatnot. You only really get punished if you don't have the necessary interaction for your opponents plays. Otherwise it doesn't really matter the # of cards they're seeing if they can't deploy them all quickly. Sticking it early and dealing with threats one-by-one (or bounce/boardwipe) lets you kind of sit back and chill until they're whittled down to burn range. It's definitely a cool card.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I don't know about just running it in a power max list, but I love the idea of running it in that howling mine control list safra has occastionally written about.
 
Goldenpineapple

Goldenpineapple

genericco said:
It sure seems like cube has been mentioned a lot by WOTC lately.
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Gotta sell those EMA packs. Not even kidding, all of the articles related to EMA mentioned cube- that spoiler season was more cube talk from wotc than all I've seen from them combined.

Personally I find the "archetypes this card is for" lists silly. Duskwatch recruiter is for GR and GW aggro, westvale abbey is for black/white tokens etc.

Cards that didn't really deserve a spot:
Sage of ancient lore
Fevered Visions
Ulvenwald Hydra (Can't really talk about prime time in the same article as this thing)
Cards that probably should have at least been mentioned:
Geier Reach Bandit not getting a tribal mention?
Asylum Visitor not being ANYWHERE on the list??
Heir of Falkenrath same as above, these were like the top 2 picks for so many people
Call the bloodline is my weakest gripe but dammit the card helps so many decks!
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
psly4mne said:
Also no mention of Falkenrath Gorger. Sure, there's not much to say about it, but it's an instant staple.
And Relentless Dead is perfectly playable without tribal synergy.
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Gorger hasn't made my cube. It implies a theme that is not there, and the time that we desperately had to cube every red 2 power one drop is long behind us. If you run a vampire theme despite CML making a pretty convincing argument why that is a bad idea, though that was before SOI, it is a good add (provided discard outlets are available). If you don't run a vampire theme, it's a misleading signal without any late game relevance. Which makes it still fine in red aggro decks, but there are more interesting options imo.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

I haven't had anyone assume that I support Vampire tribal because of Gorger (though I do run enough Vampires and discard that it could come up). There aren't that many red 2 power one drops without drawbacks, and I think a large percentage of cubes are going to want Gorger.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
If you're not willing to break singleton and have 360+ I could see wanting gorger, but that seems kind of bad.

Its baseline is just a savannah lion, the floor implies a theme thats not really there, and the ceiling is a theme that most cubes can't really support effectively. I don't think I would call it a staple so much as a necessary evil, in that context.
 
sigh

sigh

Gorger is meh.

Ulvenwald Hydra is a card that I think definitely should be on the list. Prime time is too much etb, too boring a body. Hydra presents a growing threat that rewards reaching the late game (of personal interest to me), and has a toned down spell effect.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

Yes, I was speaking from a 540 singleton perspective. I'm not sure what you think "seems kind of bad." At that level, red is very happy to have a Savannah Lions with some extra text that will be a rare bonus. You're free to call every card past the first 360 a "necessary evil", but I would disagree on that.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
psly4mne said:
Yes, I was speaking from a 540 singleton perspective. I'm not sure what you think "seems kind of bad." At that level, red is very happy to have a Savannah Lions with some extra text that will be a rare bonus. You're free to call every card past the first 360 a "necessary evil", but I would disagree on that.
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Its a necessary evil because its not a card you really want to run or are excited to run, but are priced into running because of density concerns: aka its a meh card thats only there to fill the aggressive one drop quota. Being in that spot as a design "seems kind of bad" to me, and I would prefer either breaking singleton, or running a custom.

Though, for the record, I'm also comfortable with an interpretation of my post meaning that running a red savannah lion would be bad at any cube size. :p
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
Peter LaCara said:
Nnnooooooo you're doing it to me too....

Fuck it. We're drafting tomorrow. I'll throw it in and see how it plays out.
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Already tried it, card isn't good enough as is in a typical Riptide list. I haven't tried yet but I suspect etb shoot a creature for 1 is enough eratta to make it playable. Card is good but you can't afford the *tempo* hit in our cubes to cast a thing that doesn't affect the board for 1UR.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Aoret said:
Already tried it, card isn't good enough as is in a typical Riptide list. I haven't tried yet but I suspect etb shoot a creature for 1 is enough eratta to make it playable. Card is good but you can't afford the *tempo* hit in our cubes to cast a thing that doesn't affect the board for 1UR.
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Sad.
 
yan

yan

need that jeskai or grixis deck. its fit depends on how prowess ur blue red section is. pretty unexciting in a dictate of kruphix / jace beleren / phyrexian arena way with a conditional sulfuric vortex. drawing cards never feels bad tho. play in deck with a few counters to buffer their good draws. plays like duskmantle seer

thraben inspector - great wall of omens variant
town gossipmonger - more flexible loam lion / kird ape variant
thalias lieutenant - not bad if u stacked champions of parish already
bygone bishop - great
archangel avacyn - cool annoying white control
descend upon sinful - always had delirium for this. autumnal gloom and topplegeist were too early cmc
declaration in stone - journey upgrade

thing in ice - more conditional than ludevics test subject. still like the design
havnt really pulled off the blue zombie deck yet still testing those horrors

indulgent aristocrat - lifelink not worth cost

elusive tormentor - this is a cool card but drained too many resources. maybe i played it too early prob suppose to set it up like morphling. discard doesnt seem to be worth indestructible. could be a backup plan in reanimator. should prob double up on heir of falkenwrath instead

scourge wolf - this had fit well in the prowess deck. average otherwise i like the base / ceiling.

tireless tracker - real great

ulvenwald mysteries - reactive card. i do like it more compared to something like spiritbonds. clue token design on point. this and ongoing investigations have a lot going on need to see if it amounts to anything. dont really want to spend a turn "doing nothing" but im down for some reach insurance that i dont have to leave mana up for

the gitrog monster - ive never actually drafted the crucible deck. maybe preconstruct and test it there

liking skeleton key and westvale abbey. always down to push my aggro in a non anthem way
 
japahn

japahn

genericco said:
I am kind of curious if this signals a future where Wizards markets directly to cube players and desginers like they did for the Commander format.
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EMA seems tailored for cube players. There are a bunch of cards in it which I badly wanted reprinted. Hopefully the trend continues, but cube threatens their business model enough that I don't have high hopes.
 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

That's ridiculous. Cube in no way threatens WotC's business. The percentage of Magic players who even know what cube is is pretty small. The number of people who actually own cubes are even smaller. The secondary market does nothing to help WotC, and card availability helps everyone.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Grillo_Parlante said:
beh...it does conflict with drafting limited sets; I spend a lot less money on packs than I used too because of cube.
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If it wasn't for cube, I wouldn't spend any money on Magic anymore, apart from maybe the prereleases.

Peter LaCara said:
That's ridiculous. Cube in no way threatens WotC's business. The percentage of Magic players who even know what cube is is pretty small. The number of people who actually own cubes are even smaller. The secondary market does nothing to help WotC, and card availability helps everyone.
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Also, I buy my cards from the secondary market (magiccardmarket.eu), but where do you think those sellers get their cards from?
 
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