General CBS

Dom Harvey

Dom Harvey

Contributor
TANGENT: There is no acceptable way of playing Delver in Constructed. Either people clumsily remove the card from the sleeve to flip it over and resleeve it (and then have to do it again when it inevitably dies), or they put Delvers over sleeved checklist cards which just looks awkward, or they do the awful Spreading Seas-esque thing where they put the sleeved card to the side somewhere and just use the Delver, or they leave it half-sticking out of the sleeve. It's by far the most tilting thing about Legacy coverage.
 
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Goldenpineapple

Goldenpineapple

Dom Harvey said:
or they put Delvers over sleeved checklist cards which just looks awkward
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This one always seemed fine to me. Granted I don't watch much legacy coverage but if they actually cover the checklist with the delver what's the problem? Or do they leave the checklist vertical when they turn delver sideways? That sounds gross.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
In constructed I mind less since both players are likely going to know what the other side of a given card is. I've certainly been asked a few times what a flipped test subject does (At which point I usually show them the little P/T line on the front side and they're onboard :p)
 
Jonas

Jonas

When I run transform cards, I've found some proxies that have both sides of the cards that I sleeve up, and they can put the original over that when it comes into play. It saves a lot of questions during the draft as well, and is the best way I have found so far.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Goldenpineapple said:
So how do you guys implement transform cards? Do you just have them in the cube and make your players unsleeve to flip it? Do you run the placeholder cards and have the real cards with your tokens? Have proxies that flip kamigawa style? I've seen all three and while I've forced transform out of my cube to keep things newbie-friendly (don't want to have them all unsleeving a card to look at both sides mid-draft etc.) I feel like if I had the cards in the token pile for everyone to look at (clear sleeves are cool) things would go a-ok.

That said, what transform stuff do you guys run? I'm looking at the following:



Thoughts?
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I think these are all great. Keep in mind that transform cards, in their limited environment, were created to provide an incentive for people to play spells. If you are looking for a slower more card advantage feel in your format, they may be a poor choice. Some commentary on each of them though:

Cloistered Youth: Good card (edit, thought it was something else)
Delver of Secrets: My favorite card, but will be a poor choice if your cube can't support a spells matter theme.
Ludevic's Test Subject: Another card I really like, but may be a poor choice if there is a lot of removal in your format to kill it, since it punishes people for spending the mana and time to "level up."
Bloodline Keeper: Really well designed card, but may be too slow for some formats.
Reckless Waif: Great aggressive card
Instigator gang: Gread for wide aggro strategies
Wolfbitten Captive: Great aggressive mana sink, but may be a poor choice if you want your green decks to curve out. There is a tension between pumping captive and adding to the board.
Daybreak Ranger: Great card, but may not be high enough power for some formats.
Gatstaf Shepherd: Good evasive attack, great if you are worried about board stalls.
Garruk Relentless: Great card
Huntmaster of the Fells: Great card.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I just jam them in there with a card behind them because I have bad sleeves. It's never really caused a problem.
 
Jonas

Jonas

VibeBox

VibeBox

Contributor
Jason Waddell said:
Joining the two topics here, back in standard I played a halimar depths pyromancer ascension list that played treasure hunt. Fun times.
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i played some halimar depths and treasure hunts in swans combo. treasure hunt was outright broken in that deck.
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
It's such a satisfying synergy. I wonder how far you would have to push library manipulation to make it playable in a traditional cube.
 
Goldenpineapple

Goldenpineapple

Jonas said:
When I run transform cards, I've found some proxies that have both sides of the cards that I sleeve up, and they can put the original over that when it comes into play. It saves a lot of questions during the draft as well, and is the best way I have found so far.
Click to expand...

This is actually what I meant by kamigawa-style flips. The examples you showed have them both facing the same way, though.
Grillo_Parlante said:
Cloistered Youth: Since it leaves behind a creature, may be a poor choice if you are worried about board stalls.
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I think you're thinking of loyal cathar, which I also like but my WW love-slot is currently held by precinct captain, who I like a whole awful lot.

Daybreak ranger is iffy but for some reason I've just always loved the card. I'm worried less about board stalls and more about keeping things like bitterblossom and such in check, so this stuff seems to all be fine, I guess.
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Diakonov said:
Yes!! Looks like you got it from the same guy I got mine from. I love it so much.

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can you send this guys info along?
 
CML

CML

Contributor
Dom Harvey said:
TANGENT: There is no acceptable way of playing Delver in Constructed. Either people clumsily remove the card from the sleeve to flip it over and resleeve it (and then have to do it again when it inevitably dies), or they put Delvers over sleeved checklist cards which just looks awkward, or they do the awful Spreading Seas-esque thing where they put the sleeved card to the side somewhere and just use the Delver, or they leave it half-sticking out of the sleeve. It's by far the most tilting thing about Legacy coverage.
Click to expand...


i wonder if cruise is the card that makes delver in legacy go from "fun interactive mtg" to "hgjdfjgdfk"

prob not since RUG and its mana denial are just straight up unplayable now
 
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