General CBS
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
Incidentally, there's this game called Blue Moon that bears some minor similarities to MtG, but had a less predatory business model. Now that it's (sadly) complete and there's no new cards coming out for it, every single card from it has been reprinted in one box!
Wouldn't it be rad if WotC did something like that when things rotate out of Standard? Just a big ol dead-block-box!
Wouldn't it be rad if WotC did something like that when things rotate out of Standard? Just a big ol dead-block-box!
I'll look it up!
Hey anyone know the ostensible reasoning behind mythic rarity? That seemed like the most obv mercenary thing they've done since I was gone. What was the last straw for me was must-play dual lands that would come out in new sets and were often like ten bux a pop that added a lot of cost to each new deck, especially in multicolour stressed formats.
Hey anyone know the ostensible reasoning behind mythic rarity? That seemed like the most obv mercenary thing they've done since I was gone. What was the last straw for me was must-play dual lands that would come out in new sets and were often like ten bux a pop that added a lot of cost to each new deck, especially in multicolour stressed formats.
I think I read about this in one of the many MaRo articles I had to dig through. It was a really, really preachy article that was along the lines of "See, in hindsight we were right about a bunch of things you didn't like, so you should've trusted us all along! And you should always trust us! (Even though we've made plenty of huge mistakes, and these decisions looked like more of the same at the time.)"
There already were multiple classes of "rare" from the beginning of time. This confused people, because inexplicably some rares were harder to come by and more expensive for reasons not always related to card power level. (explained better here) In part, Mythic Rare just makes it clearer: no really, this is the REAL rare, this thing that doesn't show up at least once per pack. Like a slot machine or a Skinner Box, random rewards are VERY important for drivingaddiction people to be excited about buying new packs.
Edit: Oh, and the "complete everything every card" edition of Blue Moon is called Blue Moon Legends.
There already were multiple classes of "rare" from the beginning of time. This confused people, because inexplicably some rares were harder to come by and more expensive for reasons not always related to card power level. (explained better here) In part, Mythic Rare just makes it clearer: no really, this is the REAL rare, this thing that doesn't show up at least once per pack. Like a slot machine or a Skinner Box, random rewards are VERY important for driving
Edit: Oh, and the "complete everything every card" edition of Blue Moon is called Blue Moon Legends.
Speaking of MaRo, this is of interest to Lucre:
"asked: Due for a revisit.
Cycling.
asked: Richard Garfield
Cycling.
asked: Ingenious
Cycling.
asked: Favorite
Split cards."
Mythic Rares are inarguably "good for the game" by the metrics that MaRo/WotC care about. They drive cravings, which drive sales, and sales correlate to player investment/retention which correlates to people bringing their friends into the fold, etc etc.
And those metrics are indirectly important to us players because it gives us more people to play with. Living under capitalism as we all currently do, there's no system to get more people into the game without either a: giving it away for free, or b: making it more appealing for people to drop cash.
There's nothing on the Mothership, however, that explains how chase cards (of any rarity) are of use in a situation where two players of relatively equal skill wish to duel, but they hail from vastly different income strata. For that, we have to get the rich player to invest in a cube, set arbitrary deckbuilding restrictions, or sink money into FNM booster drafts.
Aside: it's really ironic how often Reddit's MTG community recommends booster drafts to players who can't come up with the cash to make a competitive Standard deck. Booster Draft cards for the poor player go into a shoebox, 100% bleed, because she can't afford the cards that are necessary to convert her draft leftovers into a playable deck, while the rich player actually can put the cards to use. It's like Rent-To-Own furniture and the inevitable repo men all over again!
"asked: Due for a revisit.
Cycling.
asked: Richard Garfield
Cycling.
asked: Ingenious
Cycling.
asked: Favorite
Split cards."
Mythic Rares are inarguably "good for the game" by the metrics that MaRo/WotC care about. They drive cravings, which drive sales, and sales correlate to player investment/retention which correlates to people bringing their friends into the fold, etc etc.
And those metrics are indirectly important to us players because it gives us more people to play with. Living under capitalism as we all currently do, there's no system to get more people into the game without either a: giving it away for free, or b: making it more appealing for people to drop cash.
There's nothing on the Mothership, however, that explains how chase cards (of any rarity) are of use in a situation where two players of relatively equal skill wish to duel, but they hail from vastly different income strata. For that, we have to get the rich player to invest in a cube, set arbitrary deckbuilding restrictions, or sink money into FNM booster drafts.
Aside: it's really ironic how often Reddit's MTG community recommends booster drafts to players who can't come up with the cash to make a competitive Standard deck. Booster Draft cards for the poor player go into a shoebox, 100% bleed, because she can't afford the cards that are necessary to convert her draft leftovers into a playable deck, while the rich player actually can put the cards to use. It's like Rent-To-Own furniture and the inevitable repo men all over again!
I'm glad that joke is catching, maybe I'll have to find some for you kittens as well.
Though I can't imagine I complain more about management of wizards more than a number of people here have ^ evidently.
I'm sure responding to it at all has given your the encouragement you'd need to continue for another couple of weeks, even at my cruelest here I've never been interested in seeing any of you squirm.
On second thought maybe I'll just play along, time for a makeover?
Though I can't imagine I complain more about management of wizards more than a number of people here have ^ evidently.
I'm sure responding to it at all has given your the encouragement you'd need to continue for another couple of weeks, even at my cruelest here I've never been interested in seeing any of you squirm.
On second thought maybe I'll just play along, time for a makeover?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
You know, I don't think its really necessary for this game to be expensive for people to enjoy it: both pauper and peasent are fine formats, which can become much better with a few simple card tweeks or erratas for local groups (e.g. evolving wilds that dosen't CIPT). Budget cubes can offer very sophisticated gameplay, and you can always bulk purchase commons and uncommons to recreate a more authentic drafting experience.
The amount you are expected to pony up to play this game is kind of unbelievable.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
To be fair, duals and other "you pretty much need four of me"-rares have become cheaper, and that was one of the main goals of introducing mythic rares, if I remember correctly. The idea being that a player with a tighter budget should still be able to compete, and a good mana base is essential for that. Mythicless decks certainly have become cheaper to assemble. That said, the ultimate and unspoken goal of course was to push sales and earn more money, and what do you know, it works!
Anyway, I'm not against Magic's business model. Yes, it's incredibly expensive if you want to compete in standard, but hey, it's your money, spend it whichever way you want. Meanwhile it's still running strong after more than 20 years on the inherent strength of the game design. It's simply an awesome game, so please WotC, take my money. I won't complain! (Though don't expect me to cough up €300 to complete my double cycle of fetchlands.)
Anyway, I'm not against Magic's business model. Yes, it's incredibly expensive if you want to compete in standard, but hey, it's your money, spend it whichever way you want. Meanwhile it's still running strong after more than 20 years on the inherent strength of the game design. It's simply an awesome game, so please WotC, take my money. I won't complain! (Though don't expect me to cough up €300 to complete my double cycle of fetchlands.)
...okay i don't even want to touch this one
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Holefiller 4 life!
Magic is indeed a really well-designed game - by Richard Garfield. WotC's just a publisher, which now employs a few dozen custom set creators who are busy riffing on Garfield's elegant mana system and color pie that provide the great tension between greedy and focused decks to this day!
Netrunner Classic/Android, Spectromancer, King of Tokyo/New York, Robo Rally, The Great Dalmuti, SolForge... this guy just prints money for various publishers both digital and non. If on the merits of one of these games you were to choose to buy a random WotC or FFG product, you'd have a bad time! But if you follow around a strong designer like Garfield, Bauza, or Knizia you'll strike gold very often!
The touching is already well in hand by now.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
That's not entirely fair to the team at WotC. While the original game design is Garfield's (and props to him for designing this awesome game), the game is undoubtedly at a better place right now, in most areas, than 20 years ago. MaRo had a great article recently where he pretended to go back in time to talk with Garfield about all the improvements on the original design. An enjoyable read, though obviously MaRo's POV is skewed
Edit: Here it is: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/starting-over-2015-01-26
Chris Taylor
Contributor
That was possibly the cringiest article I've ever read on the mothership.
Yeah putting the rarity on the card was great, but god damn I've seen webcam sites with less public masturbation than is contained in that single article
Yeah putting the rarity on the card was great, but god damn I've seen webcam sites with less public masturbation than is contained in that single article
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh, totally, but he makes a number of good points and the overview is pretty insightful. He should have started with "I apologize for tooting our own horn in advance, but when you've been doing great shit, you have to congratulate yourselves sometimes!" of course, but come on, no one is perfect
Someone made new templates based on the article: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2u4ouo/after_reading_about_how_maro_would_change_the/
Can you say awesome?
Prove it.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
That seems remarkably difficult (Also I'm at work)
CML
Contributor
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/poisoned-heart-2015-04-08
Silumgar's court was not the busy place that Sidisi had imagined it in her youth, rising through the ranks of Naga in her attempts to gain power. She had imagined one day being a trusted advisor for the dragon, that she could use her influence to smite her enemies, making her the wealthiest of all Naga.
i yearn for patrick rothfuss
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Would you guys stick to sorcery speed removal if there was no dedicated pants deck in your enviornment? (Eg: Double Strike, Heroic, anything that wants to ride 1-2 creatures to victory)
I've had the volcanic hammers in for so long I've forgotten what it feels like otherwise.
I've had the volcanic hammers in for so long I've forgotten what it feels like otherwise.
If I was going to do that I'd at least want to make sure it was very efficient, that is Chain Lightnings instead of Volcanic Hammers.
I don't know honestly. I feel like instants add valuable decision points in the game. Options are good. I want more options because it gives players opportunities to outplay each other as opposed to having the game dictated by the draw.
Not all removal is good though. Like the "free" stuff is really swingy (snuff out / contagion). I really don't see the problem with Incinerate though (other than it's a boring card - but not every card has to be super interesting. Some players like playing straight forward decks).
Not all removal is good though. Like the "free" stuff is really swingy (snuff out / contagion). I really don't see the problem with Incinerate though (other than it's a boring card - but not every card has to be super interesting. Some players like playing straight forward decks).
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
That and you don't really need to switch to sorcery speed removal to accommodate aggro decks whose strategy revolves around perceived pressure: I think the quickest way to lose to fabled hero is to try to bolt it on the attack step.
What I like about instants is that I get to make a decision that is not black and white. Do I use it now on my turn when you are tapped out (where its unlikely that I'm going to get surprised by something)? Or do I hold it and see what you do on your turn and maybe have to cast it when you have lands untapped? With a sorcery, that choice is made for me.
As-fan is a lot easier to calculate in cubes than in sets, however if you want a calculator to do it for you, here it is.
http://yeefbear.com/as-fan/
http://yeefbear.com/as-fan/
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Sweet