Card/Deck Creature lands

[Lucre]

I feel like I can use SJW about myself but you probably shouldn't call people that because you sound like a 4chan user and you make it feel like a pejorative lol. You know how you tune out friends who regularly use the term butt-hurt?

Oh god guys he made reference to white-knighting didn't he... If I promise not to sideways call you a neckbeard, fedora, shitlord or fuccboi will you cool it with this horse shit lol? I really would rather not listen to any talking point jargon if at all possible.

and honestly brother, if your point was "lets not talk about this because people aren't making a living wage in many places globally" than I really wana remind you that this is a magic cards forum and if suddenly magic card stuff is unworthy of your attention I'm sure somewhere stupid like avaaz.org could probably use your help but why not talk about the relatively meager political issues that brush into our cube draft discussion group?

no offense or anything I'm just glad no one talks about gamergate anymore but it was starting to smell a little like it for a second.

 

[Jason Waddell]

I think we should make like the Karoo convention and name the type of land after the first one printed. In this case, that's....

Great thing about it? Two artists. One male, one female. Here they are at GenCon at 2007. Presumably the Gen stands for "Gender", but they were trying to chant down on syllables.

I make a motion to refer to them by the elegant and catchy name, Fogliolands.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I feel like I can use SJW about myself but you probably shouldn't call people that because you sound like a 4chan user and you make it feel like a pejorative lol. You know how you tune out friends who regularly use the term butt-hurt?

Oh god guys he made reference to white-knighting didn't he... If I promise not to sideways call you a neckbeard, fedora, shitlord or fuccboi will you cool it with this horse shit lol? I really would rather not listen to any talking point jargon if at all possible.

and honestly brother, if your point was "lets not talk about this because people aren't making a living wage in many places globally" than I really wana remind you that this is a magic cards forum and if suddenly magic card stuff is unworthy of your attention I'm sure somewhere stupid like avaaz.org could probably use your help but why not talk about the relatively meager political issues that brush into our cube draft discussion group?

no offense or anything I'm just glad no one talks about gamergate anymore but it was starting to smell a little like it for a second.

Duly noted, but I don't think I got my point across at all, if that's what you're taking away from my post. I think you got distracted and offended by two words in my post, and for that I am sorry. I think it's very much an interesting topic to debate, and I said so in my post, I just don't think it's worth it to get hung up on the word manland is all. If you want to use something else, by all means, I just think labeling that particular word as politically incorrect is pushing it. If I didn't think the topic was worth dicussing I wouldn't have dedicated so many posts to it.

My end note was meant more as an honest question into the motivations of White Knighting, not an accusation of anyone here being one. There's a big difference between adressing and debating (perceived) political incorrectness like you, I and others here do and being hypercritical of everyone who doesn't agree with you pro-equality worldviews to the letter like the stereotype White Knight does. It just occurred to me that it's really easy to take up a cause on the internet, pretending to be this fantastic virtuous person without really changing the fates of those you claim to defend. I.e. it's much easier to create a picture perfect persona online than to be that person in the flesh.

I think we should make like the Karoo convention and name the type of land after the first one printed. In this case, that's Mishra's Factory.

Also, I think your idea isn't bad at all Jason, but let's call them Factories. Short, catchy, and rooted in Magic history!

 

[blacksmithy]

So now that these are all spoiled (are they out? I haven't been in a store in a bit), i wanna know: is anyone sticking with the custom versions they made before these existed?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

So now that these are all spoiled (are they out? I haven't been in a store in a bit), i wanna know: is anyone sticking with the custom versions they made before these existed?

To be honest, I think I like my customs better.

 

[Tzenmoroth]

Right, exactly my point, thank you. There are far more pressing matters in the world than debating about whether we should relabel gender-non-neutral words. Though here I am, joining the discussion because discussing this stuff is interesting anyway, and much easier than making a real change. Could that be the root of the White Knight phenomenon?

The thing is, using gender neutral words does create progress and does build towards solving the larger issues at hand. You can't just magically go right from where we are today to having things that we all agree are issues (worker/human rights etc) being solved in one magical unicorn-farting-over-a-rainbow leap. If anything, people are realizing that solving large overarching problems means breaking them up into a large number of very small issues for a large group to collectively address. You don't just pick up an entire quarry and plop down the pyramids of Giza in one fell swoop. You break it up into stones so small that a few people can put them into place. Hell, if you look into things like how apartheid and women being property ended, it was millions of people each doing things so small you could argue it was pointless and nobody had a big enough impact on their own to make any change. Clearly a bunch of hopeless "SJWs" who can't make change.

Also, I'm interested in seeing any cycles of creature duals people made. I was thinking about having two full sets in a custom cube because I like them a little too much.

 

[blacksmithy]

There's a couple people on here who've made customs if you're interested. My group doesnt go in for that, but i could see my cube becoming an environment that wants to break singleton on them.

 

[Tzenmoroth]

Yeah, my main cube has no customs but I've been trying to put a custom cube together and I was thinking about doing a sort of Zendikar-like landscapes are ridiculous and alive theme. I was going to do one if not two entire cycles of creature duals, possibly with a cycle of smaller ones (e.g. Treetop and friends) and a cycle of larger grindy ones. Maybe its too much. Maybe.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

It is somewhat troublesome to presume that the term "manlands" is sociality damaging, and that there can't really be tolerated a debate or discussion about that basic premise. Thats a pretty extreme position to take over minor language, especially when it has stylistic meaning. No one wants speech codes, lest of all on a forum, or for English to be anymore of a drear language than it already is.

 

[ahadabans]

We've come a long way as a civilization. As ridiculous as this is, 100 years ago women couldn't even vote. Less than 50 years ago we still had racial segregation. Ridiculous on both counts, but that's how neanderthal we are as a species.

We'll get there eventually but it takes time. And there are always going to be things that that lean one way or the other with men and women in particular because the genders are fundamentally different creatures. Sports for example is largely male dominated because it's largely a male audience that's interested. Taking tennis as an example. Women tennis players want the same pay as men, but they draw fewer people to their matches and play best of 3 instead of best of 5 at slams. I'm all for giving them equal money (or more even) if they get the point where they are a bigger draw and playing on the same level as men. Until then though, it doesn't really make sense. That might sound sexist, but it's simply an illustration of how you can't just make things the same without making them unequal in other ways.

 

[Chriskool]

Yeah, my main cube has no customs but I've been trying to put a custom cube together and I was thinking about doing a sort of Zendikar-like landscapes are ridiculous and alive theme. I was going to do one if not two entire cycles of creature duals, possibly with a cycle of smaller ones (e.g. Treetop and friends) and a cycle of larger grindy ones. Maybe its too much. Maybe.

I kind of like the Urza's Factory idea of making tokens (and not exposing the land to removal), BUT having those tokens exile at EOT. (They could also all have haste, but activating after EOT triggers would effectively give them haste anyway.) The idea would be for each color's land (these are mono-colored) to have some sort of defensive and aggressive application that is meaningful in the late game (and appropriate for the probably 4+ activation cost of the land). Splashy tokens like:

(Note: Aven Fisher only draws cards if it dies, not if it is exiled EOT from the lands effect.)

 

[Chriskool]

Here they are at GenCon at 2007. Presumably the Gen stands for "Gender", but they were trying to count down on syllables.

Ah, but "Con" stands for "Confounds", as all of the attendees were unaware there was any gender distinction within the humanoid classes.

The first year I went to GenCon beyond dropping off friends to PTQ, I managed to irk some Assassin's Creed cosplayer by inquiring, "is that kid dressed up as Jace," within earshot, to which he demanded I pose for a death blow to pay penance for my misspeaking. My sunglasses dropped off my shirt collar without my noticing so the shame could persist through time and be revisited whenever some kind soul brings up the topic in a hobby forum.

 

[GoblinSpy]

Manlands are manlands because they are strong and threatening. It kind of reinforces gender roles, but I don't think any nerd is going to turn into celestial colonade because of it. It's also kind of fun to picture a land with big burly arms, legs and maybe a mustasche. As often is the case with these words you can't beat them by complaining or explaining, you have to find a more fitting and "fun" alternative to replace them with, those are really the only worthwhile criteria for most people. Creature lands and folk lands feels ungenuine because the template for a fun name is stolen and neutered, kind of like those second rate christian covers of famous rock/rap but with all the fun stuff switched out for "appropriate language".

Edit - I don't mean to say that it's impossible to make fun new words as pc, just that the angle is off. Well the angle is ripped off.

 

[ahadabans]

I'm all for getting more women to play this game, so if calling them creature lands instead of manlands helps, I will do it happily.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

It is somewhat troublesome to presume that the term "manlands" is sociality damaging, and that there can't really be tolerated a debate or discussion about that basic premise. Thats a pretty extreme position to take over minor language, especially when it has stylistic meaning. No one wants speech codes, lest of all on a forum, or for English to be anymore of a drear language than it already is.

Thank you for succinctly putting into words what troubles me about this debate.

Edit: I also think GoblinSpy's explanation is poppycock. Manlands are called that because they turn into a dude, as in "ok, I'm turning my dudes sideways". It's just a figure of speech and interpreting it as "male figure" is, well, see Grillo's post. To interpret it as derogatory, demeaning or gender-role-enforcing feels off to me.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I'd love it if we could take a lot of the sexual baggage out of our language. I hate how in order to talk succienctly I usually need refer to people's sex even though its usually more likely to damage the conversation (by bringing up irrelevant connotations) then add to it.

 

[Diakonov]

sexual baggage

Excellent band name

 

[Chris Taylor]

Thank you for succinctly putting into words what troubles me about this debate.

Edit: I also think GoblinSpy's explanation is poppycock. Manlands are called that because they turn into a dude, as in "ok, I'm turning my dudes sideways". It's just a figure of speech and interpreting it as "male figure" is, well, see Grillo's post. To interpret it as derogatory, demeaning or gender-role-enforcing feels off to me.

Wife says this kinda feels like trying to take back the word "Bitch"

 

[Lucre]

Duly noted, but I don't think I got my point across at all, if that's what you're taking away from my post. I think you got distracted and offended by two words in my post, and for that I am sorry. I think it's very much an interesting topic to debate, and I said so in my post, I just don't think it's worth it to get hung up on the word manland is all. If you want to use something else, by all means, I just think labeling that particular word as politically incorrect is pushing it. If I didn't think the topic was worth dicussing I wouldn't have dedicated so many posts to it.

My end note was meant more as an honest question into the motivations of White Knighting, not an accusation of anyone here being one. There's a big difference between adressing and debating (perceived) political incorrectness like you, I and others here do and being hypercritical of everyone who doesn't agree with you pro-equality worldviews to the letter like the stereotype White Knight does. It just occurred to me that it's really easy to take up a cause on the internet, pretending to be this fantastic virtuous person without really changing the fates of those you claim to defend. I.e. it's much easier to create a picture perfect persona online than to be that person in the flesh.

I don't want you to get the wrong idea, I honestly couldn't be less offended, I just felt like you warranted a dressing down, figured I'd spell it out to ya what people might be squicked out by in your behavior because we're all friends here and I owe it to my friends to tell them when they might be tripping up. I see too much of that silly business on weird facebook for it to be anything more than tickling to me.

It is somewhat troublesome to presume that the term "manlands" is sociality damaging, and that there can't really be tolerated a debate or discussion about that basic premise. Thats a pretty extreme position to take over minor language, especially when it has stylistic meaning. No one wants speech codes, lest of all on a forum, or for English to be anymore of a drear language than it already is.

Darling, the thing is, I never came here with any hostility or agenda. I'm a freaking man land apologist. I just know that it feels kinda uncool to some people and I thought I'd ask my trusted forum of pals to see if anyone had a sweet alternative because folklands etc sounds stupid to me. I'm like hyper-tolerant of debate, and as of yet no one here has cited anyone who hasnt been. I gave bootman a little shit earlier but that was for very different reasons lol. Honestly, giving a nod to the issue and then having a chuckle about those crazy sjws and their unreasonable opinions with your boys club sorta misses the point entirely, which was finding soft-spots for small effort to make spaces like these feel more inclusive, more or less just to show that theres effort being made. Plus, as I said, the rhetoric at play here has been hella corny.

If you've had your ears open we do have some pretty progressive / queer people in these boards, I'm not really trying to change anything here, I don't like the idea of making the whole forums narrative something stupid and political or making this any less of a sweet spot to let loose about gaming garbage, but every once in a while I feel like I have to remind people that despite being a mega lazy sjw, I'm still listening and maybe I'm beyond being offended by some things but I can't speak for all my peers and it's just a hot look to be conscious right?

Yeah, my main cube has no customs but I've been trying to put a custom cube together and I was thinking about doing a sort of Zendikar-like landscapes are ridiculous and alive theme. I was going to do one if not two entire cycles of creature duals, possibly with a cycle of smaller ones (e.g. Treetop and friends) and a cycle of larger grindy ones. Maybe its too much. Maybe.

I totes made a cycle of enemy dual-dorks last year and I hope they weren't all in my phone that blew up! Here's a spell land that MC hated just for posterity

Rustling Brush
Land
Rustling Brush enters the battlefield tapped
When Rustling Brush enters the battlefield you may pay to put a 3/3 green beast token onto the battlefield.
:

That one may be a little less than cube worthy but clearly we've got a lot of range yet to play with regarding creature lands.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Honestly, giving a nod to the issue and then having a chuckle about those crazy sjws and their unreasonable opinions with your boys club sorta misses the point entirely, which was finding soft-spots for small effort to make spaces like these feel more inclusive, more or less just to show that theres effort being made. Plus, as I said, the rhetoric at play here has been hella corny.

If you've had your ears open we do have some pretty progressive / queer people in these boards, I'm not really trying to change anything here, I don't like the idea of making the whole forums narrative something stupid and political or making this any less of a sweet spot to let loose about gaming garbage, but every once in a while I feel like I have to remind people that despite being a mega lazy sjw, I'm still listening and maybe I'm beyond being offended by some things but I can't speak for all my peers and it's just a hot look to be conscious right?

Its kind of that attributing to me of a position thats fundamentally opposed to you thats a little troublesome. The boys club language, the subtle suggestion that I am not "pretty progressive"; language that has a tendency to divide people into camps, kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouth, though I don't think you intended so. Its just somewhat endemic in postmodernism itself at this point, and something I've learned to be patient with.

I'm sorry that you interpreted the video as a casual dismissal. As you know, this is a challenging topic, and the questions ahadaban and onderzeeboot were asking were super awkward. I was hoping to address it simply with some levity. Unfortunately, most of my concerns with people that label themselves social justice warriors isn't born from something like Onderzeeboot's frustratingly academic position, but from actual experiences. I don't think you yourself fall into the extreme camp though.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Its kind of that attributing to me of a position thats fundamentally opposed to you thats a little troublesome. The boys club language, the subtle suggestion that I am not "pretty progressive"; language that has a tendency to divide people into camps, kind of leaves a bad taste in the mouth, though I don't think you intended so. Its just somewhat endemic in postmodernism itself at this point, and something I've learned to be patient with.

I'm sorry that you interpreted the video as a casual dismissal. As you know, this is a challenging topic, and the questions ahadaban and onderzeeboot were asking were super awkward. I was hoping to address it simply with some levity. Unfortunately, most of my concerns with people that label themselves social justice warriors isn't born from something like Onderzeeboot's frustratingly academic position, but from actual experiences. I don't think you yourself fall into the extreme camp though.

I feel rather silly for not getting the bolded parts, which probably means you should enlighten me. Especially since I found myself agreeing with your posts. I certainly didn't mean to ask awkward questions or be frustratingly academic so please make me less of a fool.

 

[safra]

look, there's this big divide between 'wow, magic culture should be more accessible to outsiders' and 'but no, not in this specific meaningless case, but probably some other ones' that needs to be addressed at a holistic and cultural level

nobody here is responsible for it but it gets duplicated all the time, and the people saying things like "SJW" in a pejorative context are usually really! terrible! people! and even if you feel some of the same things they do they've gone and ruined it for everyone. You can't be a reasonable person if you use the term (especially that way), it just doesn't work. People will take you less seriously and like you less as well. If only it had all been about ethics in video game journalism, eh?

Yes, there are bad people in the social justice sphere, just like there are outside it. That doesn't invalidate a movement; holding it to its worst examples while allowing patriarchy its best is pretty messed up and super apparent if it's happened to you before!

i am also not offended, like lucre. but it's more important, a lot more important in a not-at-all-theoretical-way-actually, to be progressive than it is to be perceived as "pretty progressive" and beefing, slackjawing, buffaloing, or cutting the wind about why not-men can't have a thing (of course all "creatures" are "dudes"? i mean i also use "dude" indiscriminately but it doesn't follow that they're also men) just doesn't get there

 

[safra]

Wife says this kinda feels like trying to take back the word "Bitch"

https://bitchmedia.org/

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

look, there's this big divide between 'wow, magic culture should be more accessible to outsiders' and 'but no, not in this specific meaningless case, but probably some other ones' that needs to be addressed at a holistic and cultural level

nobody here is responsible for it but it gets duplicated all the time, and the people saying things like "SJW" in a pejorative context are usually really! terrible! people! and even if you feel some of the same things they do they've gone and ruined it for everyone. You can't be a reasonable person if you use the term (especially that way), it just doesn't work. People will take you less seriously and like you less as well. If only it had all been about ethics in video game journalism, eh?

Yes, there are bad people in the social justice sphere, just like there are outside it. That doesn't invalidate a movement; holding it to its worst examples while allowing patriarchy its best is pretty messed up and super apparent if it's happened to you before!

i am also not offended, like lucre. but it's more important, a lot more important in a not-at-all-theoretical-way-actually, to be progressive than it is to be perceived as "pretty progressive" and beefing, slackjawing, buffaloing, or cutting the wind about why not-men can't have a thing (of course all "creatures" are "dudes"? i mean i also use "dude" indiscriminately but it doesn't follow that they're also men) just doesn't get there

I would prefer that we not prescribe to me positions and temperament that I don't hold.

This is getting kind of weird.

 

[Diakonov]

I was actually going to say, "this kind of feels like watching an EDH game unfold."