Card/Deck Graveyard hate

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

As I add more and more graveyard themed cards, the more I'm conscious of giving players ways to deal with graveyard themes. Other than the kill them before they matter approach, what graveyard hate cards are people playing, and how are they received?

I have probably the two strongest ones:



Is there anything else that's working for people?

 

[Goldenpineapple]

Only two things I really play besides scooz:

I briefly had relic of progenitus and nihil spellbomb as cheap/cantripping artifacts in a sloppy attempt to support tezz and robots, but they did poorly. Oh, bojuka bog is in my ULD because black's utility lands largely suck.

The power-max cube in my area has all the typical hard-hate sideboard nonsense like rest in peace, but the next-most interesting 'tech' was someone using leyline of the void to supposedly help support mono-black devotion. Their heart was in the right place.

 

[Dom Harvey]

I want to try Cremate just to have a cheap cantrip in black.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I want to try Cremate just to have a cheap cantrip in black.

Okay, we complain when brainstorm is just "Draw a card", but you wanna do this?

I prefer these:




If your graveyard themes are intrusive but don't involve the offending card being in play to be dealt with, maybe change is needed
Though admittedly Hallowed Burial can be pretty hilarious against pod sometimes...

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Chris' approach mirrors what I found to be most effective. As an added benefit it helps give a unique role to white removal in the metagame.

I would just add prison term and terminus to the list.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Chris' approach mirrors what I found to be most effective. As an added benefit it helps give a unique role to white removal in the metagame.

I would just add prison term and terminus to the list.

Oh man I totally forgot about prison term! Love that card

Terminus I've found less success with, though I have a mere 4 brainstorms (450)

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Its a lot better when you run it alongside x2 vault and a vampiric tutor.

fetters should probably enter into the conversation as well.

 

[ahadabans]

I found scavenging ooze to be too brutal. But most of the rest listed are good. Mardu Woe-Reaper is sweet and I dig the tie in with warriors. Pillar of flame was a little too weak so I cut that one. Terminus has been good over here. The saving grace on that card is the non-miracle cost isn't completely unreasonable for the effect. And when you get it for W, it's like Christmas early.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

Oh, I didn't think we were counting things that keep cards from eventually landing in the graveyard.

There's sort of a lot of that type of thing (dryad militant, anafenza, the foremost etc.) but they don't nail all the graveyard stuff that true hate deals with. Lingering souls waiting to be flashed back, genesis churning out that there value, bonehoard growing from a nyx weaver's spinning- I don't really count exile or tucking as 'graveyard hate' as much as collateral damage to that strategy, since they're fine against non-graveyard strategies.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Oh, I didn't think we were counting things that keep cards from eventually landing in the graveyard.

There's sort of a lot of that type of thing (dryad militant, anafenza, the foremost etc.) but they don't nail all the graveyard stuff that true hate deals with. Lingering souls waiting to be flashed back, genesis churning out that there value, bonehoard growing from a nyx weaver's spinning- I don't really count exile or tucking as 'graveyard hate' as much as collateral damage to that strategy, since they're fine against non-graveyard strategies.

Yeah, it's this. Thanks for the suggestions about exile and bottom of library, but it's more when you hermit druid a genesis into your graveyard or recur shard pheonix (though I haven't added that yet) and you want a way to get rid of it rather than just having to overrun/burn out the player.

I forgot about the woe-reaper, I play that too.

 

[Dom Harvey]

Okay, we complain when brainstorm is just "Draw a card", but you wanna do this?

You've invented Brainstorm as a black card?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I've always been a big memory's journey fan, though that is probably too narrow for most people.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Oh, I didn't think we were counting things that keep cards from eventually landing in the graveyard.

There's sort of a lot of that type of thing (dryad militant, anafenza, the foremost etc.) but they don't nail all the graveyard stuff that true hate deals with. Lingering souls waiting to be flashed back, genesis churning out that there value, bonehoard growing from a nyx weaver's spinning- I don't really count exile or tucking as 'graveyard hate' as much as collateral damage to that strategy, since they're fine against non-graveyard strategies.

I dunno, I always found Genesis too slow and Stopping Half a lingering souls to be not worth the effort

You've invented Brainstorm as a black card?

No, but even if the color was switched, would you play Reach Through Mists?

 

[Dom Harvey]

We've seriously discussed cards like Defiant Strike and Niveous Wisps here before, Cremate has a lot of blowout potential in a colour that doesn't have many cantrips.

 

[FlowerSunRain]

I was actually thinking about cremate in my last update. I didn't end up going with it, but I see the appeal.

 

[Chris Taylor]

We've seriously discussed cards like Defiant Strike and Niveous Wisps here before, Cremate has a lot of blowout potential in a colour that doesn't have many cantrips.

This might be a symptom of me not playing reanimator, the value I expect from cremate is pretty low: stopping a gravecrawler from coming back, or countering half of lingering souls.
Typically not something I'd devote a whole card in my cube that does little else to

 

[Eric Chan]

I run Niveous Wisps! My playgroup makes fun of me for it, but just wait till I blow them out with it...

 

[safra]

I also like these:


Shaman is a pod roleplayer and fine in grindy g/x builds, Stonecloaker sucks but is ostensibly playable.

 

[Diakonov]

I feel like Stonecloaker gets a bad rap undeservedly.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Haven't played this guy in ages, but I always liked him:



Was organizing cards and stumbled across this card, which I kind of like

 

[Enki]

For the graveyardhatesection I currently play the following guys (note: Multiplayerenviroment), you could also synergy with the opponent's graveyard. Hello or
-> Performed well, Lifegain, aggressive, removes creatures only, but is most of the time considered worth to have a slot. Especially with other warriors
-> We hadn´t seen him in play yet. I guess in cubes, in which having zero cards in library left is considered a problem a good role-player. Does have a lot of synergypotential with the own deck
-> Beast. Performed pretty well, removal protection/flyer/instant, synergy with flicker/blink-effects
-> 3/4 flyer for 4 is good. Not an overwhelming card, but punishes graveyardplayers hard. Maybe a bit to good or frustrating
-> I have to admit, that I have an affinity to rats (not in real life). Did always see play, when drafted. Fair cheap card
-> Haven´t seen him much. Is a zombie, enchantment matters guy, triggers more than one time. I guess playable, but not the best of the best
-> Very powerful. An Auto-Include. Hate, counters, lifegain, reactive
-> Versatile card. Most of times used for the own graveyard
-> Very versatile card. Although not a hatecard per se
-> Just a Must-Have
-> Better than the Relic, but also not really good. A can be good card
-> Performed pretty good. If have you have place left for Utilitylands a very good card

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Puppeteer clique and body double both look pretty eloquent, if a bit expensive for some environments. I think I like them the most so far, as I don't like graveyard nuking effects, as they basically just shut down a graveyard based decks ability to play the game.

I had forgotten that black has a lot of cards good at punishing opponent's for using the graveyard as a resource, and can do it in a very non-narrow, non punative way via reanimation.




That was much more extensive than I thought it would be.

 

[Turillazzo]

is Grimoire of the Dead any good? that thing looks supercool but probably isn't worth it

my cube is so graveyard-centric that gravehate cards are ok only if they are stoppable in some ways or cost a lot (the cube is quite fast, too). So I decided to try Skullsnatcher, but it hasn't come up yet, still waiting for players to understand the meta. Primal Command is probably going to join the party.

Cemetery Reaper is also really good at this thing! I lost a game against an UB player that kept harrassing my graveyard and ended the game by phyrexian metamorphing the lord, that's so hideous.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Played with dimir doppelganger in the penny cube for the first time last night, and was really impressed with it as a tool for graveyard hate.

I think there are a few catagories we could form here:

graveyard wraths: angel of finality, relic of progenitus etc.
Graveyard spot removal: mardu woe-reaper, cremate
Harvesters: deathrite shaman, dimir doppelganger
Incidental Hate: path to exile, pacifism, body double

Graveyard wraths are too punishing, spot removal too narrow, and the incidental hate too auxiliary. I really like the harvester catagory though.

A few of the cards I could dig up:

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I would classify Woe-Reaper as a harvester as well. A classic Savannah Lions that edges the race a tiny bit in your favor with its etb ability.