Sets Hour of Devastation Thread
- Thread starter Golvin
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I've periodically tried making life-gain focused decks a thing in B/W and even R/W, but the payoffs are never good enough.
Is this good enough in a lower-power environment? I'm not sure, but I think I'll try making a herd of horses.
Onderzeeboot
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The big issue with the lifegain theme was that there were so few "lifegain matters" cards. The raw amount of life gain was sometimes problematic. I think it could be reworked somehow, the archetype was actually pretty fun to pilot, but my version was not super well implemented. Maybe with some of the new printings it could be put in a bit more elegantly.
Onderzeeboot
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Good flavor text alert!
The land seems bad even for limited since there are a ton of 5c lands that don't have such a huge condition attached and even another literal version of this card in Holdout Settlement, but the red wrath seems cool. I don't know if it's necessary since x2 earthquakes and fiery confluence already exist, but it does wipe away.
If people don't know what they're doing with Burning--it's a real thing, probably one of the hardest cards to understand why its good until you see it do well in action--this is probably a better generic switch. They don't really go in the same deck, so this helps generic red control decks moreso.
If people don't know what they're doing with Burning--it's a real thing, probably one of the hardest cards to understand why its good until you see it do well in action--this is probably a better generic switch. They don't really go in the same deck, so this helps generic red control decks moreso.
That's my thought. The RG lands archetype has proven itself worthy without a Wildfire effect, so I can help the deck in a more generic way it needs it - to simply buy time for the long game. I'll definitely need to be cautious with my overall wrath count, but that's always a concern in balancing a format, so nothing new.
IMO, Burning/Wildfire is much better because it's easier to make non-symmetrical. You just need ramp - either artifact or green (non creature). Add fat things (or walkers if you run them), season to taste. Card is busted. It can basically be a one sided geddon and wrath simultaneously.
Hour seems OK if you need a big sweeper effect, but I think you are better off with the scaling X variants. Starstorm or something.
Hour seems OK if you need a big sweeper effect, but I think you are better off with the scaling X variants. Starstorm or something.
I agree, however it's moot if your players never make that wildfire deck. If your players are afraid of symmetrical armageddon effects, no matter how not-symmetrical they actually play, then it might be better to cater your playgroup/meta and include a card that's a bit easier to understand in application. It kind of sucks to dumb things down, but I feel like cube owners like wildfire decks more than the other people who play that cube lol
Onderzeeboot
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Oh the land is horrible, the flavor text is actually good though!
Also, look at that reprint!
I'd probaby agree usually about an X spell, but my red control decks heavily utilize
Some cards are complex and I can see excluding them for that reason. Wildfire though is not that complicated. If your players aren't drafting it, as the cube manager you can then draft it and illustrate how broken it is. You will only need to do this one time. Your players will see and then most likely draft it. Unless the effect is too powerful for your meta (and it very well could be if you run a lower powered list), I really think it's a card worth supporting because it gives red a unique archetype that isn't more of the same burn/agro variety and Wildfire takes up next to no space in the cube.
You're not saying anything I disagree with--in theory, and sometimes even in practice. But the draft-and-see method doesn't always work, especially if that Wildfire decks loses that prove-it game. I know that's a shitty argument, it pains me to type it out, but humans are inherently quick to jump to conclusions and sometimes it's better to adapt to your players vs forcing them to draft something they clearly don't want to. It's extreme, but supporting your playgroup needs to be considered even if it means putting the training wheels back on.
Though my favorite cube 'vengeance' moment involved a prove-it deck. I ran/run Death Cloud because I love the wildfire deck and wanted RB wildfire to be a thing along with supporting the pox deck. However, I didn't draft it for like 4-6 drafts and every time a specific (annoying) player would see it, he would just be *brutal* with the ragging about it. So one day, it just came together that I was already drafting Wildfire and the Death Cloud came. He even talked shit about it during that draft, blah blah blah wasting a spot blah blah blah this card is the worst. Guess what he said when I played it the first time against him and it won me the game? Or the second? That would be nothing, and he never mentioned it again. We ended up not inviting him back a little bit after that because he made some sketchy comments about willfully cheating 'bad' players and did some sketchy things that were borderline cheating but he chalked up to 'oops I forgot', but that excuse loses a lot of luster when you admit you cheat so good riddance, especially since I need to protect my baby Death Cloud lol
When my group was made of regulars, I definitely tried to cater to them. I agree that is generally a good philosophy to follow. There's a balance though. I got ridiculed for including Jackal Pup and Force Spike. That is always going to be something you run into, and sometimes removing those cards is not the right decision for your cube health. I took a lot of stuff out of my cube to make my players happy and some of that didn't make my cube better.
Part of the joy of managing a cube is building something you are happy with. For me, I want to support as many build arounds as possible and try to make as many win conditions viable as possible. And I'm OK if some of them go largely undrafted. Wildfire has been in probably every iteration of my cube since day one. Red is such a linear color. Wildfire is the quintessential off-beat red card. It's powerful. It's an archetype defining build around. It has appropriate flavor for the color. It's available in the old border. It wouldn't even matter if I was the only person ever drafting it. I can't imagine ever not running it.
Part of the joy of managing a cube is building something you are happy with. For me, I want to support as many build arounds as possible and try to make as many win conditions viable as possible. And I'm OK if some of them go largely undrafted. Wildfire has been in probably every iteration of my cube since day one. Red is such a linear color. Wildfire is the quintessential off-beat red card. It's powerful. It's an archetype defining build around. It has appropriate flavor for the color. It's available in the old border. It wouldn't even matter if I was the only person ever drafting it. I can't imagine ever not running it.
Totally, it's a balance. We've all heard 'why would I want to play a 2/1 for R that hurts you?', and it's tough to explain how irrelevant that is without just repeating the same point over and over again. Magic is a hard game and even the rules that seem hard and fast almost always have exceptions.
The thing about cube is that there are so many options both you could include and choose not to include. Like I totally agree with you on all points regarding Wildfire and would feel gross to remove it, I love it so much I even have Jokulhaups which I love more, but the gears always start turning in my head once I see a deck again and again not drafted. It's what made me re-work my Pox package, and I could see someone re-working their big-red package as well. I don't agree with it, but I get the line of thought that leads you there.
Basically, wildfire sounds perfect for you and what you want to do. It did literally 0 in my format, so its time to rectify that. There's lots of cards that I've spent years knowing were stone cold staples that've been taken out of my list. Besides that, my red is plenty healthy and broad, with a different set of anchors in cards like Pyromancer's Goggles, Mizzix's Mastery, and Molten Vortex.
I think Hour of Devastation is a very good fit for what I want to be doing.
It's kind of like trying to feed your kids: some things they don't want to eat and you're going to give them anyways because they can't just have pizza and cake every meal and you know how important veggies are through experience, but if they've never enjoyed broccoli it might be time to find an alternative instead of feeding them something you know they won't like. It's fine to make yourself a little broccoli here and there, but don't be surprised when you're the only one eating it if you know they hate it.
Onderzeeboot
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I love this analogy... because it's true :') I'm in luck though, my kids love broccoli
(mushrooms though...)
Onderzeeboot
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By the way, I really love the order of the spoilers, I think they did a great job of slowly spoiling the storyline there. Only now are we seeing a bunch of cards that depict what happens after Bolas arrives... and leaves. Sweet stuff!
Pelakka Wurm alternative! I really, really love scrying, and it's nice to dig for more gas off of a ramp target, although I think reanimator prefers Pelakka. Probably going to take a good deal of testing to see what I prefer, although the fact that I like this art better means my decision is potentially already made...