Isn't there a BG ramp spell from RTR that puts cards in the graveyard?
Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
!I agree with Raveborn though. I have space for 16 (!) gold cards per guild I support, and I still had a really hard time cutting cards from Golgari!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Oh how I wish for BG Voice of Resurgence
Speaking of gold options:
Have people tried these out? If you have, how often are they creatures in your cube vs just enchantments? Is indestructable too good/annoying to remove?
Have people tried these out? If you have, how often are they creatures in your cube vs just enchantments? Is indestructable too good/annoying to remove?
Such blatant disregard for the ordering of the color pie.
I've tried a few of them. I like Ephara, Keranos, Athreos and Pharika as solid value engines that are sometimes powerful creatures. Pharika needs to be animated the most of those four, Ephara works great in UW creature decks as a source of consistent advantage, Athreos is a cool death by a thousand cuts, and Keranos probably doesn't want to be animated in the first place. He's a real creatureless control kinda guy.
Xenagod and Iroas were underwhelming, and I didn't bother testing Kruphix, Karametra, or Phenax.
I played Keranos, God of Storms for a bit. I haven't seen it become a creature - pretty much ever I don't think - but that's because it's usually in some kind of control build and 7 mana symbols in permanents is a lot. It is a solid source of card advantage, but there are times you want the bolt but get a land instead. That happened enough that it earned a reputation of being somewhat unreliable (even though it's not really - you always get something), and I ended up cutting it in the end (very recently in fact). That is the only multi-colored god I've run. Though I've been wanting to test Athreos, God of Passage.
Do it! He was most frightening here with recursive dudes like 2 Shields, but he makes the opponent think long and hard about which creatures they can afford to let live forever, and at what cost. Having an opponent pay life to send a dude to the graveyard only for you to reanimate it is a special kind of cruelty.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Interesting scaling threat or just an unfun removal check?
Similar to Primordial Hydra, but at least managorger is a shitty topdeck.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
It's been sweet for me so far.
Aoret
Developer
Every time I find myself thinking this I get really afraid that I'm just deluding myself. I really really want this card to be good because it seems cool. Please report back with results!
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Athreos is definitely good. I guess you can call it a punisher effect and that's accurate in a way. But, it stays on the table and happens repeatedly. If your deck can reliably trigger it, it just cumulatively adds to the point where no matter what combinations of options they pick, they get buried. Pretend browbeat said draw 5 cards or do 10 damage: at some point the numbers get big enough for the opponent picking not to matter that much. The punisher mechanic isn't inherently bad: in fact giving the opponent counterplay allows for some really pushed designs (Desecration Demon is a homerun in that department). Athreos does it right.
Add on to that the fact that the card can also become a 5/4 threat and is a three mana indestructible enchantment (ie its probably not leaving the table), its a really powerful card.
Add on to that the fact that the card can also become a 5/4 threat and is a three mana indestructible enchantment (ie its probably not leaving the table), its a really powerful card.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
There, fixed!
Well it's totally amazing in two-headed giant, that much I know. It looks too weak for cube.
I'll have my Origins update arriving in the next few days, so I can't say definitively, but I imagine its value goes up significantly in a faster environment. I've heard a lot of people saying it's easily a 3/3 by the time your next turn rolls around in regular draft; I would think that, here at Riptide, most of us would have pushed lower CMC cards enough that you could reliably juice this boy up a good deal before your next turn rolls around, and, like Tarmogoyf and Ghastly Demise, all he seems to ask of you is that you play a game of Magic to turn into an undercosted threat. Over here, Quirion Dryad really holds her own (which is especially delightful for me because back in middle school, THAT CHICK WAS MY 5c JAMMZZ), so I imagine this is going to be miles better. I'm especially excited to see him in a U/G shell where I can ramp into him, protect him with counters, and Brainstorm as a combat trick. CHOO-CHOO!! ALL ABOARD THE VALUE TRAIN!!
(let the record reflect that defendant has donned a conductor's hat for the previous post and cubes any amusing-looking-but-probably-hot-garbage-cards available with a maniacal cackle.)
I think we'd get along.
Keranos is great. He rarely becomes a creature except in games where the person with him is already winning by a fair margin, but his effect is great and very UR. None of the other minor gods cut it, and I've tested most of them. Even Phenax. Ugh. Phenax.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Minor God Analysis!
Totally Playable
Athreos: See above
Mostly Playable
Ephara: Does well in a subset of decks, gives low curve decks long-term gas, benefits from flash creatures and moorland haunt in the ULD.
Keranos: I think he's a little slow, but if you have a deck that can stall he probably wins you the game.
Pharika: She's pretty good. Repeated deathtouch is really annoying and there are so many other cards in that niche you can pass on her even if she's on target for your themes.
Barely Playable
Xenagos: Once in a blue moon you'll get him with something that is amazing, but usually you'll wish he was another dude. He's still in my list, for what that's worth, but I doubt he will make the current cut when all is said and done.
Iroas: The opponent basically can never block you profitably, if at all. Completely useless if you are on the defensive and does nothing to help the problem getting your creatures getting removed. If your opponent is trying to stabilize with blockers, he wins the game. If they stabilize with a wrath, you will wish you had another creature to threaten with instead. Too narrow for most lists.
Mogis: 2 damage a turn for a 4 drop is below the going rate, particularly with the option to mitigate present. Not very interesting to deal with: you either can generate bodies and he does nothing, or you can't and take some damage.
Basically Unplayable
Phenax: So, so narrow. I tried him out thinking he cost four. He wasn't good.
Karametra: Spending 5 mana to get more land isn't very interesting.
Kruphix: Basically does nothing for 5 mana.
Totally Playable
Athreos: See above
Mostly Playable
Ephara: Does well in a subset of decks, gives low curve decks long-term gas, benefits from flash creatures and moorland haunt in the ULD.
Keranos: I think he's a little slow, but if you have a deck that can stall he probably wins you the game.
Pharika: She's pretty good. Repeated deathtouch is really annoying and there are so many other cards in that niche you can pass on her even if she's on target for your themes.
Barely Playable
Xenagos: Once in a blue moon you'll get him with something that is amazing, but usually you'll wish he was another dude. He's still in my list, for what that's worth, but I doubt he will make the current cut when all is said and done.
Iroas: The opponent basically can never block you profitably, if at all. Completely useless if you are on the defensive and does nothing to help the problem getting your creatures getting removed. If your opponent is trying to stabilize with blockers, he wins the game. If they stabilize with a wrath, you will wish you had another creature to threaten with instead. Too narrow for most lists.
Mogis: 2 damage a turn for a 4 drop is below the going rate, particularly with the option to mitigate present. Not very interesting to deal with: you either can generate bodies and he does nothing, or you can't and take some damage.
Basically Unplayable
Phenax: So, so narrow. I tried him out thinking he cost four. He wasn't good.
Karametra: Spending 5 mana to get more land isn't very interesting.
Kruphix: Basically does nothing for 5 mana.
I think I'm with Peter on this one - Keranos, God of Storms is far and away the strongest of the multicolour gods, at least over here. Even assuming that his creature clause is flavour text, the ability to draw a card 40% of the time and draw Lightning Bolt the other 60% of the time is very planeswalker-like. (Hi, Ral!) Unlike planeswalkers, though, he's very difficult to remove in a cube environment, as he dodges all the normal enchantment hate; in fact, it's often better that his creature switch stays flipped off, because then he isn't vulnerable to Path to Exile or other creature-based exile. It's funny that someone else mentioned Staff of Nin recently in relation to another discussion, because we ultimately found that Staff was a fairer version of this effect. Keranos was a little too oppressive in the control-on-midrange and control-on-control matchups for our liking, because the card advantage and inevitability he represented felt like too much value for five mana.
Boy, remember when this card was spoiled, and we all hated on it on this very forum, except for Jason, who saw its potential? ...Uh, yeah, I'd like to forget that, too.
Boy, remember when this card was spoiled, and we all hated on it on this very forum, except for Jason, who saw its potential? ...Uh, yeah, I'd like to forget that, too.
Keranos is certainly a strong standalone bomb in Modern constructed sideboards to grind out games vs removal heavy decks like Jund and Grixis, so I'm not surprised it would be strong in cube. Unfortunately, it's pretty uninteractive, so I could see it being opressive
Yeah, it's one of those cards that doesn't do a whole lot in some matchups - say, against the fast aggro decks - and then completely dominates other matchups, without giving the opponent a chance to interact. Granted, Staff of Nin has the same problem in that it's difficult to remove, but its effect tends to be milder, and something that an opponent can choose to ignore and simply go about executing their game plan as normal. With Keranos shooting Lightning Bolts at your face or board all the time, though, that's a lot harder to shrug off.
My experience with Keranos is that it's pretty slow. So while I agree it's solid advantage over the long game, that isn't always enough to win. Against anything aggressive, it comes online too late to matter. Against other control strategies, lightning bolt may not be enough to remove their threat and 3 to the face is too slow unless you had them low on life already (unlikely). Against midrange with 3 toughness stuff, it's pretty strong but again... sometimes you want the bolt and get a damn land you don't need. Without top of library manipulation, his effect isn't reliable enough to win with consistently. I have found anyway.