Sets Spoilers Over Innistrad (Digest)

[Chris Taylor]

(Fetch)land, instant, creature, sorcery isn't something you have to go out of your way to hit in a normal game. My problem with delirium is that most of the cards aren't that good.

Duskwatch Recruiter and Gitgud Frog are going in for sure. Thalia's Lieutenant and Relentless Dead are likely. Undecided on everything else.

What I'm saying is my playtesting is showing that it actually is real hard to get land/instant/creature/sorcery.

Land ends up being easily, and while fetchlands are already very high picks, I think they're good enough for a format that if people actually can't get enough of them add more.
Creature is either really easy or pretty hard. On the one hand, you don't want your creatures to die, but that probably will happen, but sometimes that happens VIA Oblivion Ring or Anger of the Gods, especially given how many of us probably still run gravecrawler type friends.
And on the end, instant and sorcery seem like the easy ones, but I've basically found that it's pretty easy to get one of them, but both (See Bloodfire Enforcers for an example of how frustrating this can be in limited) is far more difficult.

 

[MCMcEmcee]

In my experience it hasn't been too hard, especially if you know you should be aiming to get 4 types into the yard while you draft/make mulligan decisions/etc. Obviously depends on the draft environment. It is more of a longer-game payoff for trading cards and moving cards between zones often so not every deck in a particular draft is suited for it.

 

[sigh]

I found it pretty straight forward to get delirium in prerelease sealed. Maybe my testing in cube will be different. It's a mechanic that needs more cards, imo, so for now it's not a theme to me, just a couple cards that have a sweet edge when active. And just a couple switches can set up decks so much better than otherwise. Seal of doom being my goto example of already being decently playable.

 

[Aoret]

I think the difference between moldgraf scavenger and tarmogoyf has a lot more to do with the word "your" in front of graveyard than with the higher P/T potential in the BCS.

Land, creature, sorcery, instant is really easy to hit if I'm counting both graveyards. It sounds (from CTs report anyway) like it's a lot harder when I'm only counting mine.

Kinda talking out of my ass here as I haven't gone out on a limb to try to make this work (and have no plans to unless you guys overwhelming tell me you tried it and I'm wrong)

 

[shamizy]

Alright so I drafted the set yesterday, went 2-0 split with my buddy in the last round (yay freeroll draft!), and he had a Tireless Tracker in his GR deck. That card generates so much value, it's ridiculous. I think I definitely overlooked how good it could be. The clue tokens are best in a midrange or controlly shell (aggro can't usually find the window to crack and still be applying pressure), and I think the tracker could be a really sweet 3 drop. Human, helps solve a problem with ramp decks where you bust out the dorks and ramp and run out of gas, and just theorycrafting has had me think of some sweet curveouts.

Like for instance, Exploration is usually a middling to crappy card unless you're the super ramp deck with dorks for days and land drops into like a 5 drop or something turn 3. Imagine the same ramp deck, but with Tracker available as your T2 play off a T1 dork. Like with the nut draw, you could go T1 Forest - Exploration - Forest - Dork, T2 Tracker - Land (Investigate!) - Land (Investigate!), T3 ???, T4 Profit. Even without the nut draw, the biggest thing in many of our cubes due to low curves is that if cards are answered one for one repetitively, it usually turns into a topdeck or grindy game which Clues can help bust wide open.

Clues were just so great throughout the draft yesterday and draws were so much smoother. I'm definitely going to test this out next chance we get to draft around here, I think it has potentially nutty applications with our density of fetches and cracking clues into gas.

 

[quanta]

I second the obscene value of Tireless Tracker. Drafted yesterday, and any game he wasn't removed within a turn or two of hitting the board, I won.

 

[Kirblinx]

So a friend bought a box and we had a six-man draft. I thought since it was casual, I would try and draft something obscure. Saw Rise From the Tides after a first pick Geistblast and decided to go all in.

The Legacy of Delver

Deck was an absolute blast to play. Just use the two drops to hold down the board until you drop one of the hounds (or researcher) and try and ride them to victory. But really they are just the distraction until you drop a Rise From the Tides for 5+ which generally won me the game.

I ended up going 5-0 (we played round robin in the 6-man draft). I only lost two games. One where I got Biting Rained after dropping my Rise from the Tides. The other was when I got double Vessel of Malignityed. I couldn't come back from that with my deck :\

Obviously the deck would be better with some Just the Wind, but none came to me. I should have probably swapped the Manic Scribe for my other copy of Nagging Thoughts. As playing that off of a Tormenting Voice felt so dirty. Always ensured a decent rise two turns from then.

Was very reminiscent of Spider Spawning. Not as good obviously, but still a very fun build around.

10/10 would lose trying to force-draft this again.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Ive added rise from the tides as a build around, so your report is pretty cool. How was the geistblast for you? Did you use the copy effect much?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

So far it looks like these are my adds:



I have some doubts about Gisa's Bidding, but it's pretty strong on t2.

 

[ahadabans]

I pulled a Giestblast in a pack last night. Someone sell me on it. The art is sweet. This isn't better than Electrolyze right? I'm having a hard time evualating that fork effect.

 

[safra]

I pulled a Giestblast in a pack last night. Someone sell me on it. The art is sweet. This isn't better than Electrolyze right? I'm having a hard time evualating that fork effect.

more graveyard value, less actual value than Electrolyze I think.

The obvious advantage is it's a soft answer to counterspells once you've cast it. I'm still trying it out but I'm cautiously excited by the self-mill value too.

 

[ahadabans]

Sweet. Thanks. I might have to find a spot for it.

Also, why are people high on Declaration in Stone. I pulled one of those too, saw it was $10 on StarCityGames and thought WTF? Exile is cool. Any creature is cool. Sorcery sucks. Giving my opponent a token that can draw them a card sort of sucks. Not saying this is bad. It's a totally decent removal spell, but $10?? Are my Magic evaluation skills that rusty (they might be)?

Maybe I'm undervaluing the anti-token tech?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I pulled a Giestblast in a pack last night. Someone sell me on it. The art is sweet. This isn't better than Electrolyze right? I'm having a hard time evualating that fork effect.

It was really sweet during the prerelease. I copied a Gisa's Bidding once for four zombies, when my opponent was trying to stabilize at a low life total. He couldn't come up with enough defenders to beat that line of play, where only two zombies wouldn't have been enough. Someone else copied Gone Missing for the virtual double Time Walk, talk about insane value.

Basically, an overcosted Shock still kills enough stuff in most cubes to be begrudgingly maindeckable, and Forking even something as simple as Rift Bolt can be gamebreaking.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Sweet. Thanks. I might have to find a spot for it.

Also, why are people high on Declaration in Stone. I pulled one of those too, saw it was $10 on StarCityGames and thought WTF? Exile is cool. Any creature is cool. Sorcery sucks. Giving my opponent a token that can draw them a card sort of sucks. Not saying this is bad. It's a totally decent removal spell, but $10?? Are my Magic evaluation skills that rusty (they might be)?

Maybe I'm undervaluing the anti-token tech?

Probably just because its good in standard? We pulled one last night as well, and its ok: not a $10 card if you have access to other removal spells.

 

[safra]

Sweet. Thanks. I might have to find a spot for it.

Also, why are people high on Declaration in Stone. I pulled one of those too, saw it was $10 on StarCityGames and thought WTF? Exile is cool. Any creature is cool. Sorcery sucks. Giving my opponent a token that can draw them a card sort of sucks. Not saying this is bad. It's a totally decent removal spell, but $10?? Are my Magic evaluation skills that rusty (they might be)?

Maybe I'm undervaluing the anti-token tech?

sorcery is better than enchantment for Pyromancer/Snapcaster themes, but yeah the price is a reflection of standard I think. I'm running one as splash damage against tokens, clones, and duplicates; it's fine but not exceptional.

also, check it, printable cube proxies for the double-faced cards in the set:
http://imgur.com/a/5yvHy

 

[ahadabans]

That's nifty. I wish someone would make flip (kamigawa style) versions. I might even run a few of them assuming I could get quality proxies (i.e. not on a home printer). Delver for example looks cool, but I refuse to run transform cards in my cube.

 

[Eric Chan]

I assume Standard is why Westvale Abbey and Thing in the Ice are both $20 (!). High singles prices really putting a damper on my cube testing.

 

[shamizy]

Hope y'all got those Tireless Trackers early, was in the winning list from SCG Open and was great this weekend.

 

[Kirblinx]

Ive added rise from the tides as a build around, so your report is pretty cool. How was the geistblast for you? Did you use the copy effect much?

Sorry for the late reply. Geistblast was pretty average. I had high dreams of copying a Rise From the Tides but 9 mana is a bit too much.

It did let me double up on Tormenting Voice in a couple of games, which was pretty sweet. Made for a better Thoughtflare (Discard 1, Draw 4 for 5 mana). I just didn't see it enough for me to make a good enough judgement on it.

I don't think you could run it in a standard riptide cube. The power level just isn't there (I believe). Could be really sweet in a lower-powered list though.

Also, why are people high on Declaration in Stone. I pulled one of those too, saw it was $10 on StarCityGames and thought WTF? Exile is cool. Any creature is cool. Sorcery sucks. Giving my opponent a token that can draw them a card sort of sucks. Not saying this is bad. It's a totally decent removal spell, but $10?? Are my Magic evaluation skills that rusty (they might be)?

It is easily the best removal spell in standard at this point. Unconditional, cheap and splashable. This is what happens when the best removal spell is rare (see Heroes Downfall, it was also $10+ at one point).

We were pretty spoilt with Murderous Cut in standard for quite a while. I would offload them while you can, try and get those sweet $$$ before it settles to the $5 that it should be.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Hope y'all got those Tireless Trackers early, was in the winning list from SCG Open and was great this weekend.

Never mind that, did you see that the runner-up maindecked 3 (three!) Gryff's Boon? That card is the real deal!

 

[sigh]

Never mind that, did you see that the runner-up maindecked 3 (three!) Gryff's Boon? That card is the real deal!

And in exactly the deck I wanted to see it be good in! Helping good ol WW get that reach thru evasion. Neat

 

[Aoret]

That's nifty. I wish someone would make flip (kamigawa style) versions. I might even run a few of them assuming I could get quality proxies (i.e. not on a home printer). Delver for example looks cool, but I refuse to run transform cards in my cube.

Ditto on the kamigawa style flips. Also, why the home printer h8? I get really, really excellent results out of mine and it only cost me like $100. I suspect the reason many folks think their home printers are shit is because they're not messing with settings enough.

 

[blacksmithy]

This set is everything I've ever wanted out of magic... And I think I'm going to have to cut myself off after buying a single pack for funsies. Look for a CT cube based on the set soon, though. Honestly I think you could do worse as a first-time Riptide cube designer than just buying a bunch of singles from this set and adding your favorite cards from other sets. The environment really seems amazing to me. Land stuff, artifact stuff, mana sinks, graveyard stuff, deckbuilding challenges, a good overall power level.

 

[RavebornMuse]

Derailing ever-so-slightly to a post that would fit in like, half a dozen other threads here...



What are our thoughts on including Evolving Wilds
a) in the basic land box
b) as a free-2-of to each player, or
c) just as picks in the ULD?

Considerations:
+ Enables Delirium
counterpoint: pick more goddamn fetches
counter-counterpoint: those are top competition anyway and these are shittier fetches
+ Pushes some green cards, like Lotus Cobra, Tireless Tracker, and Titania, Protector of Argoth
counterpoint: Both cards under point #2 probably don't need "buffing"
+ Helps manabases
counterpoint: not really necessary per se
+ The ULD is already somewhat unwieldy and adding more soft picks just drags out the process

bonus round: Would you add cycle lands to the BLB, or do they deserve ULD seats?

edit: consider this: the added ~tension~ of more CIPT lands supporting midrange plans to the benefit of aggressive decks who might be able to ~leverage~ those ~tempo losses~ to a victory

 

[ahadabans]

ULD is probably most appropriate. It's a land that favors midrange/control, so making it free to those players will disadvantage your aggro drafters. My 2 cents.

I've considered exactly what you suggested but decided against it in the end (even though my drafters are mostly midrange focused).