idgaf about Twin
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Amulet you finish, but Splinter Twin was one of the best decks of all time!
General The Constructed thread
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
- Start date
Amulet you finish, but Splinter Twin was one of the best decks of all time!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
These jokes are killing me, hats off to you!
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
So, I was running my goblins deck through a league, minding my own business.
Match starts...opponent starts running out islands with preordains and brainstorms...hmmm...this must be a strange build of delver...
Than turn 4 gigadrowse my board...
ummm, what?
His turn 5
Gush...into lotus petal...into rite of flame...into inner fire?!.... thanwords of wisdom into lotus petal into preordain
:eek:
Than he cracks lotus petal...and it happens
Like primitive man enchanted by the discovery of fire that is about to consume him, I can only stare mesmerized at my coming doom.
....Than he misses on the preordain and I kill him
But sprouting vines lives!
Match starts...opponent starts running out islands with preordains and brainstorms...hmmm...this must be a strange build of delver...
Than turn 4 gigadrowse my board...
ummm, what?
His turn 5
Gush...into lotus petal...into rite of flame...into inner fire?!.... thanwords of wisdom into lotus petal into preordain
:eek:
Than he cracks lotus petal...and it happens
Like primitive man enchanted by the discovery of fire that is about to consume him, I can only stare mesmerized at my coming doom.
....Than he misses on the preordain and I kill him
But sprouting vines lives!
Disclaimer: I didn't know where to post this, this thread seemed the best rather than GBS.
Background:
So, I sometimes run our FNM at our LGS. The lady that owns the place generally runs it and she is really nice and everyone likes her. I've been going there long enough and know all the systems that I am the go to man if she can't make it and want FNM still to run. She had recently been on maternity leave, so I pretty much ran the FNMs for the last 6 months of last year until she came back. She has been running them for all of this year except tonight where she had a family emergency and I had to step in.
The Prize Support Issue:
So the prize support in our store is pretty average (in my opinion). Entry is $5, and she generally only gives the top 4 prizes (due to only having 4 FNM promos) along with a booby prize for last place. The top 4 are generally given slow moving stock (like last week the winner got a BFZ Gift Box) and some boosters (3 boosters for second, 2 for third and fourth). Last place gets a pity booster (as I like to call it). Obviously at this LGS not all of the entry goes into the prizepool. I'm fine with that, whatever, the place has to make turnover.
I wanted to shift it up a little, since we get 16-24 people a night, that is a lot of people who get nothing. The prize structure I use is a booster is added to the pool for each pair of players plus two promo cards. We rip open all the boosters, throw the rare on top and then you pick a pack depending on your place, plus 1st and 2nd place get a promo with their pack. So like tonight, where we had 22 players, 13 people got a prize, instead of the usual 5. First place got a Nissa,Voice of Zendikar + FNM promo, which is a pretty good walkaway for $5.
The Poor Kid:
Everyone seems to like this structure, except the guy who came last. By the way this is a kid who ALWAYS comes last. He didn't play last year when I was running events, so didn't know about my prize structure. He plays a 5-colour 128 card pile and says, but if I drew that one card I had. To be honest, I don't think he has won a game here yet. We've tried to fix his deck, we cut it down to 60 cards for him, but the next week he came back with the 128 card pile. After everyone had taken their packs he asked where his was. I said I don't give any for last place. The people who fought to get to the middle deserve it more. You have to earn your prize, and if you manage to win a couple of games, you'll get one. It did seem a little harsh, but I can't see how this kid has any fun just getting destroyed every night. No one really likes playing against him either as it almost just a bye, except you have to hear him yammer on about his mana problems.
So I have a couple of questions here:
This was the deck I built for FNM. I wanted to use Grave Strength as it seemed pretty cool, so I put it in a hyper-aggressive black shell with creatures that can come back after I dredge them and CoCo to give me more gas. It worked pretty well, I only really lost to mana issues (3-1), which is what happens when yo only run 20 lands I guess. I am going to give it another run next week and see how well it goes.
Background:
So, I sometimes run our FNM at our LGS. The lady that owns the place generally runs it and she is really nice and everyone likes her. I've been going there long enough and know all the systems that I am the go to man if she can't make it and want FNM still to run. She had recently been on maternity leave, so I pretty much ran the FNMs for the last 6 months of last year until she came back. She has been running them for all of this year except tonight where she had a family emergency and I had to step in.
The Prize Support Issue:
So the prize support in our store is pretty average (in my opinion). Entry is $5, and she generally only gives the top 4 prizes (due to only having 4 FNM promos) along with a booby prize for last place. The top 4 are generally given slow moving stock (like last week the winner got a BFZ Gift Box) and some boosters (3 boosters for second, 2 for third and fourth). Last place gets a pity booster (as I like to call it). Obviously at this LGS not all of the entry goes into the prizepool. I'm fine with that, whatever, the place has to make turnover.
I wanted to shift it up a little, since we get 16-24 people a night, that is a lot of people who get nothing. The prize structure I use is a booster is added to the pool for each pair of players plus two promo cards. We rip open all the boosters, throw the rare on top and then you pick a pack depending on your place, plus 1st and 2nd place get a promo with their pack. So like tonight, where we had 22 players, 13 people got a prize, instead of the usual 5. First place got a Nissa,Voice of Zendikar + FNM promo, which is a pretty good walkaway for $5.
The Poor Kid:
Everyone seems to like this structure, except the guy who came last. By the way this is a kid who ALWAYS comes last. He didn't play last year when I was running events, so didn't know about my prize structure. He plays a 5-colour 128 card pile and says, but if I drew that one card I had. To be honest, I don't think he has won a game here yet. We've tried to fix his deck, we cut it down to 60 cards for him, but the next week he came back with the 128 card pile. After everyone had taken their packs he asked where his was. I said I don't give any for last place. The people who fought to get to the middle deserve it more. You have to earn your prize, and if you manage to win a couple of games, you'll get one. It did seem a little harsh, but I can't see how this kid has any fun just getting destroyed every night. No one really likes playing against him either as it almost just a bye, except you have to hear him yammer on about his mana problems.
So I have a couple of questions here:
- What prize support structure does your LGS use? So I can maybe use a better one?
- Was I in the wrong with the booby prize kid? How can I help him when he doesn't want to be helped? Just keep giving him loser prizes?
Grave Strength CoCo
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This was the deck I built for FNM. I wanted to use Grave Strength as it seemed pretty cool, so I put it in a hyper-aggressive black shell with creatures that can come back after I dredge them and CoCo to give me more gas. It worked pretty well, I only really lost to mana issues (3-1), which is what happens when yo only run 20 lands I guess. I am going to give it another run next week and see how well it goes.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
If he gets last every time, it's a way for him to have fun for a buck. You've taken that away. However, I don't think you're doing anyone a service, certainly not him, by rewarding poor decks. I know I've made the top half with ridiculous builds plenty of times in the past, and your deck shows as well, that there's still room for experimenting and doing well. In short: I think you're doing the right thing. From what you're saying it isn't for lack of community input that he still shows up with a poor pile.
My current LGS cuts to top 4, even with crowds easily as big as 16-24. I do wish some times they'd cut to top 8 more, but I'm not the TO so it is what it is. Your prize support method sure is an interesting way to do it. Sounds like how me and my buddies used to split boxes once we had drafted them . I'm not sure what to say about the poor dude who just doesn't seem to want to improve? His deck is built like I'd imagine if one was just starting and was playing against their brother's also-128-card-stack. But he's bringing it to a paid FNM. Have you figured out why he insists on having such a disheveled pile, and not a cleaner deck? Do they want to improve in the game, or just have fun with all their cards? Are they aware that you can have fun with all your cards by building >1 deck? As much as I like last place prizes, it is a tournament...
. I'm not sure what to say about the poor dude who just doesn't seem to want to improve? His deck is built like I'd imagine if one was just starting and was playing against their brother's also-128-card-stack. But he's bringing it to a paid FNM. Have you figured out why he insists on having such a disheveled pile, and not a cleaner deck? Do they want to improve in the game, or just have fun with all their cards? Are they aware that you can have fun with all your cards by building >1 deck? As much as I like last place prizes, it is a tournament...My LGS cuts to top 8 if there are enough players (16? I can't remember the number but it seems kinda small to me), top 4 if there are few, and chops with standings if there are a minimal amount. Entry is top 5 but they usually pay pretty well- rarely is first less than 50 cash (or 1.5 times in credit)
They've been having trouble firing tournaments for a variety of reasons, but mostly because a store literally across the street runs free tournaments (with TERRIBLE payout for their length, but no one cares) so they keep trying gimmicks like door prizes and monthly championships, but only their most devoted customers *ahem* come back.
I'd say you're ruining a small part of your store's 'spirit' by ruining the booby prize, but if the same kid gets it EVERY week then yeah, it's probably not a good practice. "Rare drafting" is so alien to me... you say 13 people got a prize, but how bad were the last 6 or 7 rares? I'd much rather get 4th or 5th, get a pack or two, and get unlucky than watch the (maybe) three desirable rares get taken and be saddled with chaff. The random number of 'good' rares is just so high for prizes to work like that. It's a neat idea, but if I had a choice I would never pick that system over more traditional types.
They've been having trouble firing tournaments for a variety of reasons, but mostly because a store literally across the street runs free tournaments (with TERRIBLE payout for their length, but no one cares) so they keep trying gimmicks like door prizes and monthly championships, but only their most devoted customers *ahem* come back.
I'd say you're ruining a small part of your store's 'spirit' by ruining the booby prize, but if the same kid gets it EVERY week then yeah, it's probably not a good practice. "Rare drafting" is so alien to me... you say 13 people got a prize, but how bad were the last 6 or 7 rares? I'd much rather get 4th or 5th, get a pack or two, and get unlucky than watch the (maybe) three desirable rares get taken and be saddled with chaff. The random number of 'good' rares is just so high for prizes to work like that. It's a neat idea, but if I had a choice I would never pick that system over more traditional types.
Hello I am new this sentence is my introduction.
At my store it's $6 to enter and a pack per win after 4 rounds. The last place player typically gets a bye (don't ask me how this works with even people idk I think usually people drop) and thus a pack. I have gotten this pack before and I've also gotten 4 boosters for undefeated. This guy also runs a fatty draft with everybody who wants to draft playing each other (which has issues itself but w/e) with some other structure for that (top 50% get prizes I think).
I think he can afford to do this because he runs a separate fnm for kids that starts an hour earlier, and kids are stupid and buy lots of things. Also he def still makes money on this, I know because he's a hustler and doesn't actually care about games or comics or whatever, he just gets his, and I respect that.
How old is the perennial last placer? It can be hard to distinguish between superstition and statistics before a certain age (or without exposure to relevant education). The only thing I can think of is to switch decks with him and see what happens when he plays your deck and you play his.
P.S. your brew is amazing if I had cocos I'd play that mess.
At my store it's $6 to enter and a pack per win after 4 rounds. The last place player typically gets a bye (don't ask me how this works with even people idk I think usually people drop) and thus a pack. I have gotten this pack before and I've also gotten 4 boosters for undefeated. This guy also runs a fatty draft with everybody who wants to draft playing each other (which has issues itself but w/e) with some other structure for that (top 50% get prizes I think).
I think he can afford to do this because he runs a separate fnm for kids that starts an hour earlier, and kids are stupid and buy lots of things. Also he def still makes money on this, I know because he's a hustler and doesn't actually care about games or comics or whatever, he just gets his, and I respect that.
How old is the perennial last placer? It can be hard to distinguish between superstition and statistics before a certain age (or without exposure to relevant education). The only thing I can think of is to switch decks with him and see what happens when he plays your deck and you play his.
P.S. your brew is amazing if I had cocos I'd play that mess.
Hello and welcome to the forums!
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Back in the day when we ran drafts, all the drafted cards were the prize pool. That just seemed like the simplest way to run a draft, no organizer was required, the players could just run the event whenever they had table space. The store sold packs, the event is competitive, and 100% of the money stays in the prize pool. Basically perfect. I assumed that's how everyone ran drafts.
Then, years later I got to the store, win a draft and I go to collect the cards and everyone looks at me like I'm kicking their puppy and I got to feel like a dick who steals cards from children.
Then, years later I got to the store, win a draft and I go to collect the cards and everyone looks at me like I'm kicking their puppy and I got to feel like a dick who steals cards from children.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
If your Coke has no ice, why does your avatar wear a ludicrous warm hat?
Also, welcome!I like this payout system actually!
None of the stores I've been to for FNM have given a 'booby prize' for coming in last place, so I don't think you're out of line in removing that long-standing tradition at your store. To be sure, removing it does change the 'culture' of the store a bit, especially if players had that expectation from the owner's policy, which could've been in place for years. But I think your new prize layout is both better and more fair for the player base overall.
One store I frequented did give out one or two FNM promos randomly to entrants who were out of contention for all other prizes. I always thought that was a nice perk - gave a 'participation' prize to someone who might be having an off day, or to the kids who were just learning how to draft.
One store I frequented did give out one or two FNM promos randomly to entrants who were out of contention for all other prizes. I always thought that was a nice perk - gave a 'participation' prize to someone who might be having an off day, or to the kids who were just learning how to draft.
If your Coke has no ice, why does your avatar wear a ludicrous warm hat?
As a resident of Atlanta, GA, I'm deeply offended by the notion of "Coke With No Ice"
My current LGS cuts to top 4, even with crowds easily as big as 16-24. I do wish some times they'd cut to top 8 more, but I'm not the TO so it is what it is. Your prize support method sure is an interesting way to do it. Sounds like how me and my buddies used to split boxes once we had drafted them
I believe it is just because he wants to play with all of his cards. I did have a shower thought last night though. Why don't I just build him a cheap well-tuned list to give him a chance? I thought of building elves as there are a couple of things that work well for a new player:
- A win condition while just building up your board as new players aren't aggressive enough (Shaman of the Pack)
- Should be able to survive the SOI rotation as it will mostly be ORI cards.
- Surely he'll be chuffed getting a free deck that he will be inclined to use it.
The prize pool does sort of peter out after like pack 3. That is why I throw two FNM promos int he pool, thye usually go 4-6th pick as the rest of the rares are terrible. There have been many times where I have come third, gotten two boosters and gotten worse than draft chaff, which is why I like the rare drafting better (So I guess I feel the opposite way to you). At least you are guaranteed a good card when you do well. Although, I did come 3rd last night and got a Goblin Dark-Dwellers, which I had been looking for for a while. Plus giving people choice is also part of the prize. The guy who came 4th took Taziri, which I thought would go last, but that commander appeal goes a long way I guess. I'd rather have the chaff I want the most than random chaff from a random prize booster.
The kid looks like ~14 years old, but I feel like he isn't entirely 'all there'. Which is why I felt a little bad. I believe one of the nicer people in our LGS has done the switch decks thing, but I think he was just too overwhelmed with all the different cards in the opponents deck and didn't know what to do. This is why I want to build cheap elves. He can take it home to look over, play his classmates and next time he comes have enough grasp with the deck to take a game from someone.
Thanks for the props for my deck. It had been an idea I had in my head for about 3 weeks but couldn't be bothered to build it until last night. I'll try and abuse the deck until rotation happens.
Your LGS's prize support system is nice, I wish we could do that. Shame our lady isn't a hustler
P.S. Your username and avatar are so, so awesome. Respect.
Thanks, for the affirmation of my prize layout. The random promos to participants seems like a good idea. Maybe I should do that instead of putting them in the prize pool. I'll talk with some of my regulars to see how they like it.
At my old LGS in another town we did something similar. At the end of a draft all rares and foils were thrown into the prize pool and you pick from your placing and cycle around 3+ times. Since there was 24 packs opened, there was generally even something good for the person who came 8th. I really liked this as it discouraged rare-drafting and incentivised building a good deck to win. At my current LGS we just keep what we draft and the only prize support is FNM promos. I've never been happy with it as I feel like some just try and money draft, have a terrible pile, lose all their games but still come out on top money wise due to knowing a cards worth, compared to someone who crushed with his all common deck.
I wish I could bring this to out store, but no one likes giving away the cards they drafted. Which is fair I guess.
Aoret
Developer
I had a similar situation come up back when I was active in the competitive scene. This was Lotus Cobra-Jace, the Mind Sculptor-Titan standard, before people figured out they should be playing Caw-Go or something like that. I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline. I was on RUG, or possibly BUG by that point (a sick metagame move on my part, I really have to hand it to myself. Doom blades are a lot better against titans than lightning bolts are). Anyway, point is, Infect was a bad matchup for me.
Somewhere near the last round every night for several weeks running I kept running into this kid, mid teens, running Infect. I'd sit down horrified at the prospect of having to mulligan into removal. And then.... then he'd proceed to run each game into the ground because he was nervous about playing me. He started saying things before the match even started about how I was going to crush him. Honestly, I saw a lot of my younger self in this dude. He was just really anxious. After a few weeks of this happening I was finally like "dude, you're talking yourself into these losses. You can beat me. You probably should beat me. Every time you talk about how I'm going to crush you before we even shuffle up, I mentally fist pump because I know you're handing me an advantage"
...I stopped somewhere around there, because dude kinda looked like he was going to get upset. I wasn't trying to be a dick to him, I was trying to shake him out of it. I came by the store something like a year later and he was destroying people, but averted his eyes when he saw me :/
this feels like a This American Life segment tbh and i'm really into it
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Does the booby prize end up with people playing out the 0-2 bracket to see who "loses"?
Surprisingly no. It is really strange since everyone knows that is the only prize you can aim for at that point is last place. Although it is generally always given to the same three people. Although from what I am aware the other two don't try to actively come last unlike the aforementioned kid in my original post. I guess everyone there is for the competition and not for the prizes, which is nice to see, but also expected with the expected lack of prize support.
This feels close to my story but your kid had the skills and the knowledge to succeed, just self-confidence problems. This is the complete opposite of this kid. He doesn't have skills and anything we try and teach him flies throughout the other ear. Self-confidence he has in spades, he goes on after a game going 'if only...' more blaming his luck rather than the things he has control of. So my saying: 'If you actually try and win some games then you get a prize', was my attempt to kick him into gear, I just don't know if it is actually possible for him.
I'm going to go with this pre-con elf deck idea, as at least that will make me feel better and even if he doesn't manage to win games at FNM at least he might get an idea of curves or something, or just have fun utterly destroying his classmates.
Aoret
Developer
I guess what I was getting at is the common thread where both of these kids could be doing better, but they're locked in a shitty pattern within their own minds. I agree that opposite mechanisms are at play in each case. My thought is that in either case, having somebody break them out of their shitty pattern is probably beneficial to them in life generally (not just at FNM).
The kid from my story may go on to be more bold or confident in a corporate setting, rather than cowing to somebody who isn't as knowledgeable as he is. The kid in your story might spend his whole life thinking bad things "just happen" to him if not for your intervention.
I think the elfdeck is a really, really solid idea. Let us know how this goes!
The kid from my story may go on to be more bold or confident in a corporate setting, rather than cowing to somebody who isn't as knowledgeable as he is. The kid in your story might spend his whole life thinking bad things "just happen" to him if not for your intervention.
I think the elfdeck is a really, really solid idea. Let us know how this goes!
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
If the kid can play commander at your store that sounds like a good fit.
CML
Contributor
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I've been having a lot of fun/success at local Modern events with variants of this shell:
It's not as explosive as the Splice-heavy Goryo's Vengeance decks and it's more reliant on the graveyard, but it's so much more consistent/resilient: I easily beat disruption-heavy Grixis and Jeskai decks earlier by just casting Loam every turn and forcing them to play the game on my terms. I haven't tested against Eldrazi enough to be confident (and we won't have to worry about it for much longer), but this beats up on the anti-Eldrazi decks and has a strong, proactive gameplan that should be good in an open field.
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It's not as explosive as the Splice-heavy Goryo's Vengeance decks and it's more reliant on the graveyard, but it's so much more consistent/resilient: I easily beat disruption-heavy Grixis and Jeskai decks earlier by just casting Loam every turn and forcing them to play the game on my terms. I haven't tested against Eldrazi enough to be confident (and we won't have to worry about it for much longer), but this beats up on the anti-Eldrazi decks and has a strong, proactive gameplan that should be good in an open field.