Card/Deck Balance: Reasonably Efficient Non-Etb Creatures?

sigh

sigh


A cool way for cards to have a spell effect on a non-etb body. Are any of these worth it besides maybe Genesis? Anger seems cool, even if a sad little body for 4 mana. Glory too good?

In the same vein, there are the creatures from JOU that did cool team wide effects. I could see arguments for Archetype of Aggression?
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Wonder actually looks really good.

I think most of these can't really exist in a vacuum, which is 100% fine. Presumably, after toning down a bit on certain ETBs, that should open up drafting space.

In the Penny cube, one of the surprise decks were the UG decks that exploit green auras/buffs/combat tricks/fatties along with blue evasion granters, to produce huge bursts of damage. Its like a more tempo based stompy deck, with mistfire adept being the best card in the deck.

Dropping wonder into the yard and than suddenly flying over with a bunch of buffed threats, seems like a real deck to me, especially since you can do it for 0 mana off of a looter or frantic search.

Archetype of Imagination doesn't look as good to me, since you can't grant flying and buff threats in the same turn.

I feel like anger would also work very well in such a format, since using mass haste effects to build your own ETBs off of {T} activated abilities looks interesting.

Brawn also looks good as a general evasion grantor.
 
Aston

Aston

sigh said:
This might not apply super heavily to cube, but I just witnessed (again) one reason that etb effects are annoying. Watching an EDH game, fairly developed, resolve a warp world. Took (taking? Not sure it's done yet) about as long as the rest of the game combined
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Only one warp world? Amateurs.
 
sigh

sigh

Fear not! I was perfectly fine where I was sitting a table over. Got about 2? games in while they quibbled over rules and such. I believe later I heard something like "mumble bumble Kicked mumble Rite of Rep mumble mumble Radiate". That one mist've been a real treat to deal with. Meanwhile I was having plenty of fun with an ultra-fair Rith deck. EDH, man....

Moral of the story is that too many ETB's can crush the flow of a game
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
All this down-trodding on EDH has me a little sad. It is my second favourite form of Magic (I wonder what the first is ;)) and possibly the epitome of casual multiplayer magic. In fact that is why I haven't been around in the last couple of weeks, been having trouble getting cube drafts to fire, so I just go to a friends house to play some EDH. It isn't about the fancy tech plays or sweet decks you have made like cube, it is about the interaction with other players.

That is pretty much the main advice I can give about playing EDH: find people you enjoy playing with. I mean it really goes without saying. You would do that with any game really. The fact is in standard/draft, you can have people you don't enjoy playing just to make up numbers, as you will only be playing them 1/7th of the time.

Then once you find people you like to play with on a regular basis, you just need to figure out how you all like to play. There is usually some middle ground that you can all tread upon. Then it is mainly all about politics. Once a deck/card keeps dominating, the table will work together to take out that problem before it happens. Then that player will learn next time not to do the stupid thing (ie, Warp World with 20 million triggers).

I have a couple of different decks of varying power-levels. Complete junk (Doran Tribal Spiders), group-huggy (Rosheen Global Ramp), Decent-ish (Grenzo's Tiny Beats, Brion's Swing and Fling), Pretty Damn Swell (Saffi's Combo-Wombo). I know the right playgroups to use them with and cards not to use (Timesifter was a bad choice I swear).

Here is the deck I have really been having a great time with. The idea was to always cast Grenzo for 2 (X=0) and have the deck almost entirely of creatures and every creature being power 2 or less, so Grenzo has an almost 50% hit rate. It is a great to have a reusable draw engine that avoids mana costs. Main wincons are Gray Merchant, Blood Artist, Netherborn Phalanx and Big Daddy Purphoros (the only creature I can't Grenzo out). It has been a blast to play and it is always fun to 'roll the dice' and see what you can get with 3 Grenzo activations (generally 2 lands and a Sol Ring :p)

Grenzo's Tiny Beats

Commander (1)
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden

ETB Creatures (22)
1 Agent of Erebos
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Bone Shredder
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Faceless Butcher
1 Gravedigger
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Manic Vandal
1 Marsh Flitter
1 Mindclaw Shaman
1 Mogis's Marauder
1 Nekrataal
1 Netherborn Phalanx
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Priest of the Blood Rite
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Thought Gorger

Sac Outlets (7)
1 Blood Artist
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Flesh Carver
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Undercity Informer
1 Viscera Seer
1 Zulaport Cutthroat

Mana Creatures (6)
1 Burnished Hart
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Priest of Gix
1 Priest of Urabrask
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Workhorse

The Beefy Creatures (8)
1 Clockwork Dragon
1 Falkenrath Marauders
1 Herald of Leshrac
1 Ignition Team
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Nighthowler
1 Triskelavus
1 Triskelion

Utility Creatures (15)
1 Archetype of Finality
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Canal Dredger
1 Instigator Gang
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Junk Diver
1 Junktroller
1 Ophiomancer
1 Pontiff of Blight
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Pyreheart Wolf
1 Royal Assassin
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Viashino Heretic

Land (37)
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Buried Ruin
1 Command Tower
1 Kher Keep
1 Lantern-Lit Graveyard
1 Molten Slagheap
13 Mountain
1 Opal Palace
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
13 Swamp
1 Temple of the False God

Support (4)
1 Teferi's Puzzle Box
1 Sol Ring
1 Reito Lantern
1 Crystal Ball
No, the irony is not lost on me that I posted a deck almost entirely of ETB creatures in the non-ETB thread :p
 
sigh

sigh

Oh, I love EDH, but it has its downsides. This is especially evident when you aren't playing with your tight-knot group, like on EDH day at an LGS. The most important thing for me is definitely the interaction of it, and working towards everyone having a good time. That's why it's a little sad that it's so easy for EDH as a format/game style to get very cumbersome and overbearing. Not sure how to do anything about that but work towards better goals myself.

My playgroup will also sometimes put a "chess clock" rule into effect that gives each player about a minute per turn (excluding debating, intense combat steps, etc)
 
James Stevenson

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Kirblinx said:
All this down-trodding on EDH has me a little sad. etc etc...
Click to expand...

qualitypost.png

quite agree.
 
Dom Harvey

Dom Harvey

Contributor
In general games only work when all participants have a shared, clearly defined incentive. Most EDH groups want a game that's 'fun' but each member's criteria for what's fun are different so it becomes more about self-sabotage to ensure you don't randomly breach etiquette. Games of social politics can be fun but Magic is a poor vehicle for it and many EDH groups try to deny the politics involved even as they force themselves to embrace them. Magic also isn't that well-suited to that kind of gameplay: it takes 6+ full turn cycles before anyone actually does anything
 
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