General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Not really, but a few cards care about actually casting artifacts such as
Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, Sai, Master Thopterist, Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
and potentially Welder + Daretti to weld it back in.
What I'm actually thinking about is
It makes thopters and draws cards. I like that it can go into more decks, but it's a pretty boring planeswalker. It also suggests artifacts but is strong enough without them which is a bummer.
Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, Sai, Master Thopterist, Traxos, Scourge of Kroog
and potentially Welder + Daretti to weld it back in.
What I'm actually thinking about is
It makes thopters and draws cards. I like that it can go into more decks, but it's a pretty boring planeswalker. It also suggests artifacts but is strong enough without them which is a bummer.
Well Teshar and Traxos trigger on Historic and not just artifacts. They will also trigger from Bident of Thassa.
It isn’t much, I know, but it might give Bident a tiny little point.
Both are interesting cards but my vote also goes to Thopter Spy Network which I absolutely love!
It isn’t much, I know, but it might give Bident a tiny little point.
Both are interesting cards but my vote also goes to Thopter Spy Network which I absolutely love!
I think another good option for "Mellow Green Walker" would be:
Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury has a similar ultimate to Nissa, but isn't over-powering. Her negative ability is genuinely useful. Her +2 makes a great token as well.
I'm also considering either one of these two Nissa versions, since their untap abilities are more inline with my UG "super ramp" theme. These are the other planeswalkers I'm considering at the moment:
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
Ob Nixilis, the Hate-Twisted
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
Nahiri, Storm of Stone
Domri, Chaos Bringer
Would either of those two Nissa's be at a matching level?
Caller of the Pride is pretty damn strong. Double strike plus evasion is no joke.
It's strong but it acts kind of like a sorcery in that situation. I don't mind things being powerful as long as they don't run away with incremental gains, which I think Nissan, Worldwaker definitely does.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Nissa, Who Shakes the World has been shockingly good in Standard and is more fun to play with/against than Worldwaker, IMO
Is the static ability overbearing in a medium power cube do you think? That's potentially 12 mana turn 6 in a mono green deck.
Yeah and this is fine too
or or both?Serve similar roles as slow midrange enablers, provide CA in the form of creatures, etc.
Agreed. I'd also point out that Empath is both pretty narrow (my guess is most cubes have around 10 cards it can target).
Here's one I'm wrestling with:
vs.
Pros for the Hound:
Here's one I'm wrestling with:
vs. Pros for the Hound:
- Bigger Butt is very relevant.
- Trample means it can't just be held at bay by chump blockers as it grows.
- Cheaper, which allows the spells-matter player to start cashing in spells for extra value a turn earlier.
- Triggers off all noncreature spells, which lets it bleed into the artifact deck.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
My vote is for weird. The difference "noncreature" makes is huge.
I'd go with Weird. The big thing you want for spells-matter type decks is to start chaining value as soon as you can. The earlier you can get something extra out of the spells you're casting, the better. Fits into more decks, cheaper to cast, and it triggers off more things than the Hound. I think you'll get way more out of it than Hound for most decks unless you have a lot of Flashback and graveyard type stuff or if the Trample really matters in your environment.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I tested both, and honestly couldn't, and still can't, choose. In the end I decided to make room for both.
vs Which big midrangey aristocrats payoff?
I like Sidisi, wish it would have a worse body. A tutoring 4/6 deathtoucher for 5 is pretty damn strong.
Bontu looks like the PERFECT aristocrats payoff but also has a veeeryyy big body, and keeping coming back is what makes it too strong for my cube, too.
I have to agree with psly4mne, Yawgmoth is such a beautifully designed card, black, cc4, aristocrats payoff and I even love the protection from humans clause.
Bontu looks like the PERFECT aristocrats payoff but also has a veeeryyy big body, and keeping coming back is what makes it too strong for my cube, too.
I have to agree with psly4mne, Yawgmoth is such a beautifully designed card, black, cc4, aristocrats payoff and I even love the protection from humans clause.
Obviously either of these would be in addition to Yawgmoth, king of all aristocrats.
What about
Reprocess gets better if your cube cares about sacrifing lands or artifacts as well as creatures. Torgaar might be another big body for Reanimator.
Reprocess gets better if your cube cares about sacrifing lands or artifacts as well as creatures. Torgaar might be another big body for Reanimator.
Guys, I want some removal on a stick but I don't want it to be as strong as Nekrataal or Flametongue Kavu (although I appreciate their original artworks). I also don't want to include stupidly strong cards like Overseer of the Damned or Noxious Gearhulk.
For reference, Dream Eater shouldn't be outclassed but also shouldn't be the clearly stronger card. I want the cards to be conditional but strong if played properly. For example, I happily include Warfire Javelineer as a FTK you need to put work in. Anyway, here are the fights:
vs vs vs
This is the one I find the most complicated. Dark Hatchling, which has a BEYUTIFULLLLL art btw, looks a bit weak compared to Dream Eater, which doesn't remove the creature entirely, but is also able to bounce other permanents, has +1 power, flash and surveils 4 which adds up to Dream Eater being a stronger card in my opinion (I would love to hear your opinion on these thoughts!). Gilt-Leaf Winnower looks like a stronger version (and therefore might be perfect) but is a bit tricky to evaluate: it costs 1 less but has a bigger body, menace is usually weaker than flying and it's removal is also conditional. The Banshee looks like the weakest of them all as Morbid can be difficult to trigger, but if you get the work done a 4/4 which gives -4/-4 definitely is no joke. The Rebel is triggered a bit more easily, as you could sacrifice Terramorphic Expanse and other non-creatures with sac-abilities. It might be a bit pushed, though, as a 3/2 for 3 which gives -3/-3 often is a very swingy play, especially in the early turns (Deadeye Harpooner is even worse). I could see myself adding Winnower and the Rebel, but I'm not sure if I evaluate both of them right as they might end up being too strong.
Next one:
vs
The ability etb->fight looks very green to me and I would like a mono green card to have that ability, but Foe-Razer also has flying which I somewhat dislike. Also, Ravager Wurm is able to destroy a nonbasic land which sometimes is relevant. I already thought about adding Ravager Wurm and Territorial Allosaurus so I have the effect in green, but I don't know if I like the dinosaur as a vanilla 5/5 for 4.
For reference, Dream Eater shouldn't be outclassed but also shouldn't be the clearly stronger card. I want the cards to be conditional but strong if played properly. For example, I happily include Warfire Javelineer as a FTK you need to put work in. Anyway, here are the fights:
vs vs vs This is the one I find the most complicated. Dark Hatchling, which has a BEYUTIFULLLLL art btw, looks a bit weak compared to Dream Eater, which doesn't remove the creature entirely, but is also able to bounce other permanents, has +1 power, flash and surveils 4 which adds up to Dream Eater being a stronger card in my opinion (I would love to hear your opinion on these thoughts!). Gilt-Leaf Winnower looks like a stronger version (and therefore might be perfect) but is a bit tricky to evaluate: it costs 1 less but has a bigger body, menace is usually weaker than flying and it's removal is also conditional. The Banshee looks like the weakest of them all as Morbid can be difficult to trigger, but if you get the work done a 4/4 which gives -4/-4 definitely is no joke. The Rebel is triggered a bit more easily, as you could sacrifice Terramorphic Expanse and other non-creatures with sac-abilities. It might be a bit pushed, though, as a 3/2 for 3 which gives -3/-3 often is a very swingy play, especially in the early turns (Deadeye Harpooner is even worse). I could see myself adding Winnower and the Rebel, but I'm not sure if I evaluate both of them right as they might end up being too strong.
Next one:
vs The ability etb->fight looks very green to me and I would like a mono green card to have that ability, but Foe-Razer also has flying which I somewhat dislike. Also, Ravager Wurm is able to destroy a nonbasic land which sometimes is relevant. I already thought about adding Ravager Wurm and Territorial Allosaurus so I have the effect in green, but I don't know if I like the dinosaur as a vanilla 5/5 for 4.
I honestly don't like either of these cards. Reprocess looks really weak to me (for one more mana you can get a 5/6 menace), and I've tested Torgaar and he's just not that good. He's only kind of okay in DOM draft.
Winnower, easy. It's the only one of these that's anywhere close to the power level of Dream Eater, and it also has by far the weirdest condition, which I consider a plus.
