General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
If you have the GY support to make those at least a 2 for 1 with a higher ceiling, they’re both worth a spot.
Only 3 can stay!
Only 3 can stay!
I saw these two mentioned together and couldn't believe they've never met here in the pit. Do they even fulfill the same role? Personally, I've been thinking of Cryptic Command as a midrange Swiss-army knife for a mono-Blue/Ux deck whereas Sublime Epiphany is a game-ender for any sort of control with blue. Does Sublime Epiphany do too much? I feel like part of the appeal on cryptic is having to choose what you need it to do--that is, how you play it--whereas Epiphany's ability to choose all options means that you're trying to maximize when you play it.
I would cut Deep Analysis unless Flashback or Milling your opponent are supported. Windfall is probably a worse card but even bad wheel of fortune is still a fun time imo.
Sublime Epiphany is usually a 3 for 1 or better (by the time you can play it you'll always have a target for at least three modes) but it rarely wins the game on the spot. Also there's very little in the way of ways to play around what it does. I like Cryptic more but that's because I feel like Sublime is usually just a brutal beating on any deck that's trying to play fair, where cryptic command hurts (And can cost you the game if Falter would kill you) but usually doesn't completely take over.
Sublime Epiphany is usually a 3 for 1 or better (by the time you can play it you'll always have a target for at least three modes) but it rarely wins the game on the spot. Also there's very little in the way of ways to play around what it does. I like Cryptic more but that's because I feel like Sublime is usually just a brutal beating on any deck that's trying to play fair, where cryptic command hurts (And can cost you the game if Falter would kill you) but usually doesn't completely take over.
every time i’ve seen Sublime Epiphany cast in a game, the caster won about 3 turns later. it’s a control finisher in disguise. such a great card.
i don’t run Cryptic because it’s 1UUU and i like my cards to be splashable as much as possible. EDIT: the reason for that is because i want decks in my cube to be XYz to XYZAB in terms of color distribution. if your environment is more geared towards the X/Xy/XYz range, Cryptic looks a whole lot better because it encourages U or Ux compared to UXy/UXYz/etc.
But yeah, from my experience playing with/against the card, Epiphany is easily the most powerful blue noncreature spell in pretty much any given non-Power environment.
i don’t run Cryptic because it’s 1UUU and i like my cards to be splashable as much as possible. EDIT: the reason for that is because i want decks in my cube to be XYz to XYZAB in terms of color distribution. if your environment is more geared towards the X/Xy/XYz range, Cryptic looks a whole lot better because it encourages U or Ux compared to UXy/UXYz/etc.
But yeah, from my experience playing with/against the card, Epiphany is easily the most powerful blue noncreature spell in pretty much any given non-Power environment.
If you have the GY support to make those at least a 2 for 1 with a higher ceiling, they’re both worth a spot.
Only 3 can stay!
Do your blue decks that value looting air towards combo and aggro? If so, keep Windfall and cut Tragic Lesson, otherwise cut Windfall.
Better yet- cut all of these and play more cantrips!If you have the GY support to make those at least a 2 for 1 with a higher ceiling, they’re both worth a spot.
Only 3 can stay!
Control decks really need the ability to rip through their deck at the beginning of the game to set themselves up for the mid and late game. While 3cmc+ draw spells can help a control player bury their opponent in card advantage during the late game, they aren't that effective in helping to find early answers. These cantrips are nice since many of them fill the same roles as the cards you originally listed, while being a little bit cheaper up front to help get blue decks going. I used to run an expensive blue draw suite, but switching it to a cantrip-based system has made blue decks run way more smoothly without making them feel over powered.
I agree with Train, for cantrips and card filtering effects the cheaper the better. I was all aboard with the heavier impact higher costing cards for a long time thinking that it wasn't worth it wasting time on little effects, but practice revealed that you just needed greater mana efficiency and utility to maximize these kind of effects. It doesn't really help too many decks if you need to take a full turn of development off just to dig a little deeper or fix your draws slightly. But if it's coming alongside another impact play that turn or deployed early T1 or T2 when you don't have much going on? Much more effective.
It was mostly playing grindier EDH strategies like Aminatou, the Fateshifter or Tasigur, the Golden Fang that made this concept clear to me. Those little advantages you gain from firing off a Ponder or Preordain early to set yourself up 2-3 turns down the road end up adding up over time and become more than worth it.
I've since gone back and re-introduced a whole suite of cheap cantripping effects to smooth draws out. This is what I'm currently running:
It was mostly playing grindier EDH strategies like Aminatou, the Fateshifter or Tasigur, the Golden Fang that made this concept clear to me. Those little advantages you gain from firing off a Ponder or Preordain early to set yourself up 2-3 turns down the road end up adding up over time and become more than worth it.
I've since gone back and re-introduced a whole suite of cheap cantripping effects to smooth draws out. This is what I'm currently running:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I've cooled on one mana cantrips as well, and switched to two mana cantrips and one mana cyclers instead.
Oh yeah, if you have a self-mill theme and the only mill card that mills target player is thought scour you can actually "upgrade" to
to help your newer players to realize that it's self-mill and not try to mill opponent.
to help your newer players to realize that it's self-mill and not try to mill opponent.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Old frame and a not-horrifying art too!
yeah i would KILL for a reprint/alter of Thought Scour that didn’t feature a screaming flayed head on it. even something more abstract or weird like
Thought Scour is just gross. I want my cube to be pretty.
Thought Scour is just gross. I want my cube to be pretty.
You use customs sometimes yeah?
I do hope we get a different art next time they print this for real though.
I do hope we get a different art next time they print this for real though.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I didn't want to do a LAME RickRoll or anything like that and didn't have anything particularly interesting to link to. I added something to prevent further disappointment.
I am not afraid, you are afraid!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Click Thought Scour for a surprise!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Missed opportunity to link to baldivian trading post