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How important is geralf's messenger? Is it just a way to get some reach with a sac outlet?

Wow that's got to literally be the worst jace. Really thought it was +1 Tower Geist.

Well, you get more information by playing your spells as late into a turn as you can (ie play your t3 spell and the end off opponents t3). If the control player didn't need to play an answer they should have the ability to get more cards and/or card quality yeah?

So if we want to play around with the thought experiment of "how do we create a deck that plays to win with inevitability in such a fashion that it only runs one or two threats and the rest is all answers" is it possible we should start creating some negative space for that to happen? I got...

Yeah honestly. In cube I think the blue part is more likely to be contributed by distortion strike and thasa, than blue sac-shenanigans.

Yeah, apparently a staple for the current rdw deck-to-beat

I was a tad snarky but it was the way you put it, as though there isnt a pod deck without voice even though voice was printed much later. It's still a strong roleplayer, but it isn't the only one of its kind.

What are you even doing with your cube at that point?

Not by necessity, but I'd like to get some kind of critical mass in the two drop section. Is Leonin Arbiter playable in cube? Is it fun?

imposing sovereign Thalia, guardian of thraben So, I'm a pretty big fan of disruptive two drops, but I've found it kind of difficult to find a good suite of them for cube. In constructed we have more cards like gaddok teeg and arbiter, but I'm not sure they translate to limited.

Well like, what are you running now? What list? There's a ton of nice counterspells.

Force, like goyf, really feel like lackluster cards in limited. You have way to inconsistent decks to make any use of them.

When in your opinion did this transition then. What is a "classic" control deck?

nantuko husk VS bloodthrone vampire Sort of in the same spirit. As part of an aristocrat package, which one would be the better card? It feels like it could be too slow with a three drop, but also getting two power makes it significantly more useful when you don't have any sac fodder.

I like this one :p Also thoroughly enjoying these discussions we've had this week!

Yeah, five options seems a bit excessive.

You also took out and added a disciple of the ring ;) Tell us how the cards played in the 3-0 thread yeah?

Oh right, since the copy doesn't have a backside. So you just have the permanent trying to come back flipped from exile to the battlfield but just ends up forgetting it was cloned to begin with and you just select jace as the target again?

The danger with introducing both tapped and untapped lands is that it makes the tapped land the wrong choice to take and creates this weird "two cubes in one" feel where you can get trapped into playing a worse deck by picking the wrong kind of cards, in this case the bounce lands. I'm pretty...

To me I think one of the key differences is that where control wants to navigate to a state where the control players has inevitability (by having more mana, cards, access to permission and some way to finish that doesn't just get picked off easily like aetherling or a manland), and the midrange...