Chris Taylor
Contributor
True. A big thing to pay attention to is anything that moves counters. I've got a custom Scrounging Bandar++, and it gets out of hand quick.
Card/Deck +1/+1 Counters
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
True. A big thing to pay attention to is anything that moves counters. I've got a custom Scrounging Bandar++, and it gets out of hand quick.
Yeah that would be kind of swingy.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I had to power down GW counters twice in my cube, because it was too strong. It's an archetype that is easily pushed into a state of "too much synergy". I'm going to test the proliferate cards for sure, but there's a reason I cut Thrummingbird and even Volt Charge from my cube, and the reason is that proliferate, as a mechanic, easily breaks the expected effect to cmc ratio in any well tuned draft deck. For example, I like that Ranger of Eos can fetch Mikaus, the Lunarch in my cube, that's a good interaction, but Mikaeus turns any proliferate card into: "Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control," and that's far too much of a (repeatable!) reward for 2 or 3 mana. Thus, while proliferate is certainly fun to play with, I'm doubtful that testing these new options will lead me to a different conclusion.
I REALLY want to implement +1/+1 counters into my cube as there already exist some cards that support the theme while 2019 had a lot of cool stuff going on for them counters.
To me, this looks clearly like a GWU-theme bleeding into R. How did you execute this theme without having too many parasitic cards while also not getting oppressively strong?
To me, this looks clearly like a GWU-theme bleeding into R. How did you execute this theme without having too many parasitic cards while also not getting oppressively strong?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I'ld warn you that cards that enable you to repeatedly proliferate are very strong in +1/+1 counters shells. Evolution Sage and Grateful Apparition can, and will, run away with the game in such a deck.
Yeah, Skyship Plunderer looks not nearly as busted and it might be Merfolk Skydiver rather than Flux Channeler and Evolution Sage?
I'm sad that green's interesting three drops always seem to be too strong for cube.
I'm sad that green's interesting three drops always seem to be too strong for cube.
Here's a spicy one. Is this good enough?
I doubt Evo Sage would be too strong. Let the players have their fun!
I doubt Evo Sage would be too strong. Let the players have their fun!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
That depends entirely on your cube. I tested Evo Sage in my cube, and it was wrecking games. The problem is that my cube's high end does not compete with repeatedly putting +1+1 counters on weenies. You are running Baneslayer Angel vs. my Eternal Dragon, Consecrated Sphinx vs. Sharding Sphinx, Grave Titan vs. Skeletal Vampire, and so on, and so on. Looking at Mondschwein's cube, it looks like he's running at an even lower power level than me, which makes me think Evo Sage is definitely not in line with his power level.
I think it's fine to have that powerful synergy available, as long as there's enough removal around to answer it. Your cube does look pretty light on removal, so I could see there being problems. (At least requiring land drops makes it a bit harder to pull off than Grateful Apparition though.)
Mondschwein's cube would probably be fine with it IMO, although he's not going for a +1/+1 counter theme as far as I can tell.
Didn't upadte the cube for a long time, it's in the middle of an overhaul. Still, I'm just implementing +1/+1 counters as a thing into my cube.
I think it really depends. Evo Sage looks strong because it will naturally go into a GW counters deck, and hitting land drops is never hard for green.
Now, what I find interesting: U is another colour that goes well into the +1/+1 counters theme, and Flux Channeler still needs quite some work done to be effective. As a payoff, I find the Channeler to be worth a try in lower powered cubes, as it is certainly harder for those decks to cast a lot of instants and sorceries than hitting land drops, as this means using mana which usually also means that you won't develop your board further (except for proliferating).
Curse of Predation, Thrummingbird and Grateful Apparition are too consistent, that's true, and Evo Sage is nearly as consistent, but the Channeler seems about right I think. Will definitely try it.
I think it really depends. Evo Sage looks strong because it will naturally go into a GW counters deck, and hitting land drops is never hard for green.
Now, what I find interesting: U is another colour that goes well into the +1/+1 counters theme, and Flux Channeler still needs quite some work done to be effective. As a payoff, I find the Channeler to be worth a try in lower powered cubes, as it is certainly harder for those decks to cast a lot of instants and sorceries than hitting land drops, as this means using mana which usually also means that you won't develop your board further (except for proliferating).
Curse of Predation, Thrummingbird and Grateful Apparition are too consistent, that's true, and Evo Sage is nearly as consistent, but the Channeler seems about right I think. Will definitely try it.
What do you think of this dude: Devouring Hellion? Too weak?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I think it's a perfect example of synergy that liiks like it's there and isn't.
It's the same with pteramander: it involves counters, but it's not for this deck, it's for the spells deck
Also:. I've found biogenic ooze to be a similar false flag: all it needs is time, not abzan falconer or volt charge