[Brainstorming/Building] Dom's spell-centric Cube

Dom Harvey

Contributor
So, if you saw the Cube that I posted on the Google group a while back, you know that I enthusiastically embraced a lot of what Jason was trying to do, from the general ideas to copying some of the specific subthemes. However, a lot of the stuff I want to support, either by doubling up on certain cards or pushing a theme as hard as possible, was antithetical to what the rest of the Cube was trying to do. The Pod/Zombie/sac subtheme and heavy emphasis on creatures, creature-based interaction, and synergy over power tried to turn games into grindfests with each player facing lots of small, marginal decisions the importance of which would accrue over the course of the game. Meanwhile, I was looking to go way over the top with Gilded Lotus, shoot for broken early plays with reanimation/Show and Tell, or play protracted control mirrors involving lots of instant-speed interaction. I figured trying to support these wildly divergent styles of play in the same Cube would force me to dilute them both, so I'm sketching a separate Cube that's more suited to what I'm aiming to do.

Some guiding principles for building the Cube:
- Where possible, spells should take priority over creatures. If a creature is in the Cube, either it should be interesting on its own merits or be necessary to enable the Cube as a whole to slant this way. To give you an idea of what I mean: Silverblade Paladin is 'interesting' while Mirran Crusader is not, creatures like Nezumi Graverobber/Mulldrifter/Siege-Gang Commander are ideal role-players, and I accept that I might need cards like Isamaru for aggro to be good enough. Aggro-control should be well-placed to combat the control/combo decks, so creatures that play into that will be prioritized. Otherwise cube-worthy non-creature permanents (PWs, Vedalken Shackles) will have a much higher bar to meet.

- I'm most eager to find and support cards like Boros Reckoner/Consecrated Sphinx/Vengevine, which are very solid when used normally but can be exploited in a myriad of interesting ways (suggestions for these would be much appreciated).

- As I said in another thread I like polychromatic control decks, and the most interesting control tools are gold, so copious amounts of manafixing will be necessary. I like the double fetchland-shockland setup: it allows for strong manabases but forces decisions/costs in manabase construction and careful in-game sequencing. To help aggro I want to stay away from the colour-intensive 2-drops (Mistral Charger would get the nod over White Knight, for example)

- Because of the saturation of gold cards and the distribution of good spells and combo tools, the colours will probably be imbalanced in number and power of cards. We can attend to that later; for now, I'll include the cards I want and go from there.

- Since there will be a number of ostensibly non-interactive strategies (Reanimator, the Show and Tell/Sneak Attack/Eureka/Flash deck, Storm, artifact ramp), the answers available need to be cheap and plentiful while not being narrow (f/e Cremate).

- Cards I'm considering including multiple copies of: Boros Reckoner, Vengevine, Burning-Tree Emissary, Brainstorm, Faithless Looting, Mulldrifter, Gilded Lotus, fetchlands/shocklands. I saw Jason running a second Mulldrifter in his Eldrazi Cube sketch, and I was kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier. I'd assumed that you'd most want duplicates for niche cards to push the desired subthemes or combo pieces to increase consistency/redundancy, but why not double up on universally sought-after cards like Mulldrifter as well?

- Power-maximization isn't an explicit goal here, but to some extent it's a necessary means to fulfil my aims. I won't cut a card for being too powerful unless that disparity in power also makes it uninteresting (so Balance survives, Mind Twist does not). This requires moderating some cards that aren't conventionally too powerful: Terastodon is an awesomely fun card, but might be too good off an early reanimation spell so Sylvan Primordial gets a shot in the big leagues instead.

- Brainstorming: (sorry for the gratuitous use of hashtags but I think it helps make things clear)
#double up on fetches:
- landfall -> Lynx/Geopede/EAngel/Avenger
- domain -> Collective Restraint?, Voices from the Void?
- land in gy -> DRS, KotR/Crusher, Loam, Crucible, Grim Discovery
- boosts 3x Brainstorms (-> miracles, Loam, Squadron Hawk, Land Tax)
-- miracles -> instant cantrips, Scroll Rack, SDTop, Noxious Revival
-- more cards in hand -> Nostalgic/Dev Dreams, Firestorm, Wild Mongrel/Tog

#Storm:
- untap effects/mana boost -> Snap, Cloud of Faeries, Frantic Search, Turnabout, Time Spiral, Palinchron (all -> Karoos); Heartbeat/Flare/Wake
- mana -> Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, Goblin Electromancer; Moxen, Lotus Bloom, Lotus Petal, LED
- free spells -> Gitaxian Probe, Noxious Revival, Manamorphose, BTEmissaries/Priests (-> Vengevines), Gush
- regrowths -> YawgWill, Past in Flames, Nostalgic Dreams, (Remand)
- refill -> Timetwister, Wheel of Fortune, Time Spiral
- storm -> Grapeshot, Freeze, EtW, Tendrils, Desire, Hunting Pack
-- answers: Abeyance, Thalia, Aurelia's Fury

#cheating:
- reanimation -> Reanimate, Animate Dead/Dance, Life/Death, Necromancy, Rec Nightmare, Dread Return (?), Mannequin, Unburial Rites
-- enablers: Entomb, Buried Alive, Intuition, Gifts, Lootings, PImp/Troll/Mongrel/Tog
-- answers: Cremate, Relic/NSpellbomb, cheap removal
- put in play -> Flash, SaT, Sneak, Eureka, TtBreach; Tinker, Natural Order, Obzedat's Aid?
- big things -> Titans, usual large dumb animals
-- non-creatures -> Akroma's Memorial?, Form of the Dragon?, Eldrazi Conscription?, Omniscience?, Karn/Nicol Bolas

#big-mana:
- ramp: Gilded Loti, Monoliths, Moxen, mana rocks
- extra lands: Fastbond, Explore, Oracle of Mul Daya
- sweepers: Dev Dreams, Wildfire/Burning of Xinye, DForce, Armageddon/Ravages

#instant(/-speed) interaction:
- flash creatures -> Sulfur Elemental, Mindcensor, VClique, Exarch/Pestermite, Stonecloaker?, Resto, Venser, Yeva, Mystic Snake Teferi, Cloudthresher, Draining Whelk, BHellkite
- creatures that interact with spells -> Augur of Bolas, Talrand, Nucklavee?
- modal cards -> Charms
- free spells -> Pacts, Daze/Gush, Snuff Out, FoW, Misdirection?/Mindbreak Trap?
- split second -> Sulfur Elemental, Krosan Grip, Sudden Shock?/Death?, Wipe Away?, Word of Seizing?, Take Possession?
- utility lands -> storage lands, Urza's Factory/Gargoyle Castle, Innistrad spell lands


And a preliminary list of cards to work with:
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Academy Ruins
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x All Is Dust
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Angel of Serenity
1x Animate Dead
1x Arc Lightning
1x Arc Trail
2x Arid Mesa
1x Armageddon
1x Augur of Bolas
1x Aurelia's Fury
1x Avalanche Riders
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Azorius Charm
1x Azorius Signet
1x Azure Mage
1x Balance
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Banishing Stroke
1x Bant Charm
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Batterskull
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bitterblossom
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blast from the Past
2x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodbraid Elf
1x Bloodghast
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Body Double
1x Bogardan Hellkite
1x Bone Shredder
1x Bonfire of the Damned
1x Boom // Bust
2x Boros Reckoner
1x Brain Freeze
3x Brainstorm
2x Breeding Pool
1x Bribery
1x Burning of Xinye
3x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Cabal Ritual
1x Call of the Herd
1x Careful Consideration
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Celestial Colonnade
1x Chain Lightning
1x Char
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Chrome Mox
1x City of Traitors
1x Cloistered Youth
1x Cloud of Faeries
1x Coalition Relic
1x Complicate
1x Compulsive Research
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Constant Mists
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Countryside Crusher
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Cremate
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Cryptic Command
1x Crystal Shard
1x Cultivate
1x Dance of the Dead
1x Dark Confidant
1x Dark Ritual
1x Daze
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Deceiver Exarch
1x Deep Analysis
1x Delver of Secrets
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Detention Sphere
1x Devastating Dreams
1x Devastation Tide
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Dimir Signet
1x Doom Blade
1x Dream Halls
1x Dromar's Charm
1x Electrolyze
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elite Vanguard
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Emeria Angel
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Entomb
1x Entreat the Angels
1x Esper Charm
1x Eternal Dragon
1x Eternal Witness
1x Eureka
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Exhume
1x Explore
1x Fact or Fiction
2x Faithless Looting
1x Farseek
1x Fastbond
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fetid Heath
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Figure of Destiny
1x Fire // Ice
1x Firebolt
1x Firestorm
1x Flames of the Firebrand
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Flash
1x Flickerwisp
1x Flooded Grove
2x Flooded Strand
1x Forbid
1x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Force Spike
1x Frantic Search
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Gideon Jura
1x Gifts Ungiven
3x Gilded Lotus
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Goblin Electromancer
1x Goblin Guide
2x Godless Shrine
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Grafted Wargear
1x Grave Titan
1x Greater Gargadon
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Grim Monolith
1x Griselbrand
1x Gush
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Harmonize
1x Heartbeat of Spring
1x Hellrider
1x Hellspark Elemental
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Hero of Oxid Ridge
1x Hunting Pack
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Imperial Seal
1x Incinerate
1x Inferno Titan
1x Into the Roil
1x Intuition
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Izzet Charm
1x Izzet Signet
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Jackal Pup
1x Joraga Treespeaker
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Karmic Guide
1x Karn Liberated
1x Keldon Champion
1x Keldon Marauders
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1x Kird Ape
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Knight of Glory
1x Knight of Infamy
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Knight of the White Orchid
1x Kor Skyfisher
1x Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1x Land Tax
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Life // Death
2x Life from the Loam
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Lightning Helix
1x Lightning Mauler
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Lingering Souls
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Living Death
1x Loam Lion
1x Looter il-Kor
1x Lotleth Troll
1x Lotus Bloom
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Loxodon Smiter
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Magma Jet
1x Makeshift Mannequin
1x Man-o'-War
1x Mana Drain
1x Mana Flare
1x Mana Leak
2x Manamorphose
1x Manic Vandal
2x Marsh Flats
1x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1x Memory Jar
1x Mental Note
1x Midnight Haunting
1x Mind Stone
1x Mind's Desire
1x Mindslaver
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Mirror Entity
1x Miscalculation
1x Mistral Charger
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Moment's Peace
1x Momentary Blink
1x Mother of Runes
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
2x Mulldrifter
1x Murderous Redcap
1x Mutavault
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Mystic Gate
1x Mystic Snake
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Natural Order
1x Necromancy
1x Nephalia Drownyard
1x Nest Invader
1x Nezumi Graverobber
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Obelisk of Alara
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Olivia Voldaren
1x Oona's Prowler
1x Open the Vaults
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Pack Rat
1x Pact of Negation
1x Palinchron
1x Past in Flames
1x Path to Exile
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Personal Tutor
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Plated Geopede
1x Plow Under
2x Polluted Delta
1x Ponder
1x Predict
1x Preordain
1x Priest of Gix
1x Priest of Urabrask
1x Primal Command
1x Primeval Titan
1x Probe
1x Profane Command
1x Prophetic Bolt
1x Psionic Blast
1x Psychatog
1x Putrid Imp
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Quirion Sentinel
1x Raging Ravine
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Rancor
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Reanimate
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Regrowth
1x Remand
1x Repeal
1x Repulse
1x Restoration Angel
1x Reveillark
1x Rewind
1x Rift Bolt
1x Riftwing Cloudskate
1x Rolling Earthquake
1x Runechanter's Pike
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Savannah Lions
1x SB: 3 Squadron Hawk
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scroll Rack
1x Search for Tomorrow
1x Searing Spear
1x Seething Song
1x Selesnya Charm
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Shelldock Isle
1x Show and Tell
1x Shriekmaw
1x Sickening Dreams
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Simic Signet
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Smallpox
1x Smokestack
1x Snap
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Sneak Attack
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Soltari Trooper
1x Sorin's Vengeance
1x Sower of Temptation
1x Spectral Procession
1x Spell Pierce
1x Spellskite
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Spiketail Drakeling
1x Squadron Hawk
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
2x Steam Vents
3x Steppe Lynx
1x Stifle
2x Stomping Ground
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Stormblood Berserker
1x Stormfront Pegasus
1x Sulfur Elemental
1x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Sun Titan
1x Sundering Titan
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Sylvan Library
1x Sylvan Primordial
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Tectonic Edge
2x Temple Garden
1x Temporal Manipulation
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Terminus
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Thought Scour
1x Thoughtseize
1x Thragtusk
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Through the Breach
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Thunderous Wrath
1x Time Spiral
1x Timetwister
1x Tinker
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Treachery
1x Trinket Mage
1x Turnabout
1x Twilight Mire
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Unburial Rites
1x Upheaval
1x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Vanishment
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Vengevine
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Venser, the Sojourner
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Vindicate
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wall of Blossoms
1x Wall of Omens
1x Wall of Roots
1x Wasteland
1x Waterfront Bouncer
2x Watery Grave
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Wild Mongrel
1x Wild Nacatl
1x Wildfire
2x Windswept Heath
1x Wolfir Avenger
1x Wolfir Silverheart
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Worn Powerstone
1x Wrath of God
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Zealous Conscripts

Any input would be much appreciated.
 

CML

Contributor
Dom -- I love this, both the specific idea and the opportunity to see a Cube grow from idea to reality.

a few quick ideas:

-many 'combo cubes' pretend all their lands are rainbow lands, obviously don't do that here but maybe add even more fixing incl. several copies of city of brass and gemstone mine
-in constructed combo mirrors are miserable but control mirrors (described above) are very interesting (i'm just too bad to play them). the difference is that control mirrors have more interaction and fewer random blowouts. your self-described goal of making a cube with a bunch of haymakers and huge swings might be at odds with your goal of having a control mirror.
-probably include even more cantrips, keeps things running smoothly, makes for an interesting draft choice. with a smaller density of fetches, preordain becomes the best, then ponder, then brainstorm (the opposite of the legacy order)
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
The number one most important thing for me is, if you're going to have an aggro presence, figure out a way for there to be ways for aggro to interact with the combo decks. Tidehollow Sculler and friends (and Cabal Therapy, etc.) are great for this. Vintage has really cool kind of aggro/prison decks going around that make things interactive.

I know some people when going for more combo oriented metas just drop aggro entirely, and make it be a combo/control thing going on. I could see this being awesome. Again, Vintage as an example. I would also super break singleton for countermagic and hand disruption. I would want it to be just an all-out spell fest, where you are trying to duel and find an opening for your big combo. In this type of environment I'm really not against super hateful stuff like Ensnaring Bridge or whatever. The challenge is to find ways to connect all these disconnected spells. Look at the various formats where combo has existed and identify the gameplay dynamics you actually want to replicate. Part of the reason Storm in Pauper was so miserable was because the games were so non-interactive. By contrast, Storm games in Legacy are often really cool.
 

CML

Contributor
What would a Riptide Lab combo Cube look like?

Cards that go in multiple combo decks: Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Gitaxian Probe, Show and Tell, Diminishing Returns, Past in Flames, Infernal Tutor, Lion's Eye Diamond, Sensei's Divining Top, Doomsday

What would a deck look like? Hopefully something like the top one here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/4182511 . I call it 'Girltalk.dec' because it's all the combos mashed up into one. I don't like combo and this is my favorite deck ever
 

Dom Harvey

Contributor
CML: I buy into the scepticism that most of us here have about power maximization as a general philosophy, but at the same time I enjoy the games where I get to slam a large animal into play on turn 2 or blow up the board several times. I think the best way to reconcile those two inclinations is to enable those strong, flashy plays but to ensure that there are enough cheap playable answers that the games are still interactive. In any case, resolving a Tinker or whatever feels a lot more satisfying when I have to set it up carefully and plan ahead to ensure it's successful.

As for cantrips, I've been looking for extra ones to include. Chromatic Star/Sphere(/Terrarion?) seem perfect, as they're decent manafixers and always fine as the last playable(s) in a pinch. Beyond that, cyclers are an obvious place to look: cycling lands, Unearth, Angelsong, Cloud of Faeries, Miscalculation, Complicate, Renewed Faith, Undead Gladiator, the ARB common creatures (even fan favourite Monstrous Carabid), Krosan Tusker.

And yeah, that Infect/Dream Halls/Hive Mind deck is insane. I fell in love with it instantly when it was first posted.


Jason: As a combo, control, and combo-control devotee I love the idea in theory, but I'm not sure the tools are there to work; duplication becomes a necessity rather than a selective tool. In any case I think aggro is at its most interesting in Cube, and there will usually be at least one drafter who prefers playing aggro.

Some cards I want to try: Nivmagus Elemental (the first good idea that ever came from MTGS), Devastating Summons, Flame Jab/Raven's Crime, Stuffy Doll, Flamekin Harbinger (primarily Mulldrifters/Vengevines/Avenger of Zendikar), Cadaverous Bloom

I'll post a first draft of a list up soon when I have time; it looks as if blue is going to be more represented than any one other colour, as one might expect. Any suggestions (particularly for good duplicates/interactions)?
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Hi Dom, I agree that the splashier stuff can be lots of fun. I'll be curious to see how well you can find intersections between these archetypes, as opposed to cards that fit in "the ____ deck", as it seems like a pretty high-difficulty challenge. I like the Burning-Tree Emissary idea as a cross-section between aggro and storm, for example.
 
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