I've played some standard zombies on MTGA lately, and there's nothing better than finishing off the opponent with Fell Stinger's exploit ability life loss, especially if you're dead on their next turn.
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- Thread starter James Stevenson
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Laz
Developer
How fast is the environment?
Treasures are obviously awesome in a fast environment, Clues excel in a slower one (unless you can benefit highly from the discard outlet of Blood Tokens). Absent explicit synergies (i.e. not caring about generic artifacts), Food sits somewhere behind these.
So um... really fast environment:
Treasure > Blood > Clue/Food
Really slow environment:
Clue > Blood/Food > Treasure?
I think Food tokens have the cutest synergies though...
Treasures are obviously awesome in a fast environment, Clues excel in a slower one (unless you can benefit highly from the discard outlet of Blood Tokens). Absent explicit synergies (i.e. not caring about generic artifacts), Food sits somewhere behind these.
So um... really fast environment:
Treasure > Blood > Clue/Food
Really slow environment:
Clue > Blood/Food > Treasure?
I think Food tokens have the cutest synergies though...
@Laz
Thank you for taking the time. Like you I am also a little bit all over the place with these. I find Food to be cutest but also often the worst. When it is good, it is game-winning (can hinder a game loss) but very often useless.
I like your logic about fast and alle environment.
The environment in my cube is slow at first and the fast later. So kind of both actually. There is also a middle where some decks are fast and some are slow because we have quite a lot of variety.
I am mostly asking about each of your opinions in a vakuum when you haven’t been told any premise. There are no wrong answers.
Thank you for taking the time. Like you I am also a little bit all over the place with these. I find Food to be cutest but also often the worst. When it is good, it is game-winning (can hinder a game loss) but very often useless.
I like your logic about fast and alle environment.
The environment in my cube is slow at first and the fast later. So kind of both actually. There is also a middle where some decks are fast and some are slow because we have quite a lot of variety.
I am mostly asking about each of your opinions in a vakuum when you haven’t been told any premise. There are no wrong answers.
If you abstract them to be just some spell (treasure token is 1/3rd black lotus, clue is 2 mana draw 1, etc.), then I would say:
Treasure, Clue/Blood, Food?
I don't know. I guess nobody would include a 2-mana cantrip in their decks. I don't think analyzing them in a vacuum is that useful.
Treasure, Clue/Blood, Food?
I don't know. I guess nobody would include a 2-mana cantrip in their decks. I don't think analyzing them in a vacuum is that useful.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think Treasures are still really good in a slow environment, because mana is exactly the thing you are starved for in a slower environment. Getting that finisher out one or two turns earlier, or being able to cast two spells in a single turn instead of one is huge.
Edit: If it helps, imagine Thraben Inspector variants that each produce one of the four tokens. How would you rank those? Thraben Prospector (who creates a Treasure token, obviously) would certainly be top of my list, regardless of environment, and the Lunch Meat Collector (Food token, duh) would be at the bottom. Thraben Injector (Blood token) and Inspector (Clue) vary in ranking, as drawing a card is better than looting, but the Blood token is cheaper and offers potential synergy with stuff like Drake Haven and Reanimate.
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If it helps, imagine Tireless Tracker with Treasure Tokens.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Like maybe just a petal off of that lotus or something?
Tireless Mauler 2r/g
Creature - Beast
Whenever Tireless Mauler deals damage, create a Blood Token.
Whenever you sacrifice a Blood Token, put a +1/+1 counter on Tireless Mauler.
3/2
Creature - Beast
Whenever Tireless Mauler deals damage, create a Blood Token.
Whenever you sacrifice a Blood Token, put a +1/+1 counter on Tireless Mauler.
3/2
I'd go with Treasure > Clue > Blood > Food. I just think ramp and card advantage are just so powerful in a vacuum compared to the filtering of Blood or lifegain from Food. If you have additional synergies with cards that care about tokens things can definitely change, but I'd say that I'm almost always going to have a use for a Lotus Petal or a way to bin an artifact for an additional card without timing restrictions.
Wizards, let Ravnic have their fun
I wonder how many smoother tokens we'll get? Or will we eventually land in some kind of saturation where all the effects you'd want are there as named tokens?
The power level of the trinket tokens is very contextual. If you are comparing four different cards that produce one token, I would go with Clue > Treasure > Blood >= Food, but if the cards are a repeatable source or produce a lot of them at once (Like Smothering Tithe or Brass' Bounty), then my evaluation for Clue tokens and Treasure tokens shift, because the diminishing returns of Clues are way higher. For a card that can modally produce one of the four different tokens, Food and Blood are going to swap places, because Lifegain is a very niche utility, but also very valuable when you do need it. And like how Food is contextual to what your opponent is doing, Blood varies a lot in power with regards to what you are doing, there are decks that could very well prioritize it above all the others. There's also an argument to be made that Treasures are a lot more valuable on cheap cards, while the other three are more suited for more expensive cards when spending excess mana on stabilizing or getting access to new resources is more important.
tl;dr: it's complicated
tl;dr: it's complicated
Thanks @Mown
Damn @ravnic I was hoping no one would bring up Toggo
I guess Rock fits the criteria. Maybe these do too
It’s just.. Blood, Clue, Food and Treasure was a core mechanic of their sets and they had many cards producing that specific token. I don’t view Rock and friends in that same group. But Rock is interesting I guess.
Join me in the custom thread
Damn @ravnic I was hoping no one would bring up Toggo
I guess Rock fits the criteria. Maybe these do too
It’s just.. Blood, Clue, Food and Treasure was a core mechanic of their sets and they had many cards producing that specific token. I don’t view Rock and friends in that same group. But Rock is interesting I guess.
Join me in the custom thread
Hm, I'm looking at both gobbos and artifacts as themes in red in a new cube draft, maybe I should reconsider this guy?Btw, people always forget that we have rock tokens too!
edit: somewhat of a combo with Nahiri, Storm of Stone I suppose
More like Nahiri, Storm of Rocks, amiright?