Pretty helpful write-up, I'll definitely be thinking on this! I probably completely glossed over Nettle Drone and Molten Nursery when looking through cards once or twice because I am Devoid's number one hater and it is a fake mechanic to me, but gameplay-wise the incentives are pretty cool and interesting for this list. It's really tough to gauge how things will perform in this cube because it is so low-power and stupid, I'm constantly waffling between "Pia's Revolution will be dogshit" and "Pia's Revolution will be cracked in half". The answer is to just test it of course but I'm trying to decide whether or not to put it in blind before the cube goes in an event in a couple months and I don't have a lot of time for testing rn lol.
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- Thread starter James Stevenson
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I have a new cube idea, but I still have some rest of doubts. So my inspiration was to have a cube that feels much more like constructed. I've been eagerly following the MTG Goldfish Best Standard Deck Ever series on YouTube, and it reminded me that constructed magic can be really cool sometimes. The bracket matches showed that the decks between the inception of the game and 2018 could almost all face each other on a relatively equal level, with a few exceptions. Looking at you, broken jar. I wanted to capture this golden era of constructed play where you had interesting and powerful decks (often ones that were difficult to resemble in a traditional singleton cube) but you weren't dead if you had no 2-drop.
My approach would be a cube that heavily breaks singleton. I would have two, three, or sometimes even four copies of cards in the cube, so decks will really feel more like constructed decks, despite sticking to 40-card decks for practical reasons. I've also considered expanding the cube size to 480, but then still draft the whole cube in four packs of 15 to enable larger sideboards and allow for more pigs for hate cards and things like that that can make matches in constructed more open.
Of course, the draft would not feel like a traditional draft, but I think a draft like this could still be fun. You are not scraping for playables, but instead the draft portion would resemble the feeling of tinkering with a constructed deck because you have so many options in the end. You can always be sure to get two or three copies of key cards that only your strategy might need.
Of course, drafts would be quite different. I would include narrow or parasitic cards and a few synergistic decks that have a lot of cards in them nobody else wants. Drafting could be on rails sometimes, but I think all that would be fine because it would not really be about the traditional way of drafting. For example, if you choose to build the astral slide deck, it is about how you construct your version of it. Of course, you want all the one-mana cycling cards. But do you main deck that Reclamation sage? Do you splash red for Flametongue Kavus? For which match ups did you prioritize cards in the draft for your sideboard? Scrabbling Claws, or Pithing needle?
What do you think of my idea? Do you believe this could be fun?
My approach would be a cube that heavily breaks singleton. I would have two, three, or sometimes even four copies of cards in the cube, so decks will really feel more like constructed decks, despite sticking to 40-card decks for practical reasons. I've also considered expanding the cube size to 480, but then still draft the whole cube in four packs of 15 to enable larger sideboards and allow for more pigs for hate cards and things like that that can make matches in constructed more open.
Of course, the draft would not feel like a traditional draft, but I think a draft like this could still be fun. You are not scraping for playables, but instead the draft portion would resemble the feeling of tinkering with a constructed deck because you have so many options in the end. You can always be sure to get two or three copies of key cards that only your strategy might need.
Of course, drafts would be quite different. I would include narrow or parasitic cards and a few synergistic decks that have a lot of cards in them nobody else wants. Drafting could be on rails sometimes, but I think all that would be fine because it would not really be about the traditional way of drafting. For example, if you choose to build the astral slide deck, it is about how you construct your version of it. Of course, you want all the one-mana cycling cards. But do you main deck that Reclamation sage? Do you splash red for Flametongue Kavus? For which match ups did you prioritize cards in the draft for your sideboard? Scrabbling Claws, or Pithing needle?
What do you think of my idea? Do you believe this could be fun?
Any pile of cards that you like set up with any amount of intent will turn out fine at worst.
Joe's World Championship Museum cube is like this and it seems to work out well! Haven't played it myself but I know a lot of folks who have and say it was a lot of fun.
Oh right, heard about that one on LPR. That's enough encouragement for me to go down that rabbit hole now...
Yes, input "Voucher" as the card name and you'll be able to choose which cards you get with it. I saw an Urzatron voucher and tried it, it's easy!
Did they just remove alchemy variants from cube cobra? My cube is now missing A-Symmetry sage.
Probably; they're removing all alchemy cards from Arena, so this is likely part of that. https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/mtg-arena/state-of-the-formats-2026
Yes but...they removed the cards from the database? It seems...quick and harsh. And I didn't see any announcements on Cube Cobra
I'll have to see how I replace it.
Gwen did an @everyone on their Discord announcements channel if you're terminally online enough to get those.Yes but...they removed the cards from the database? It seems...quick and harsh. And I didn't see any announcements on Cube Cobra
I'll have to see how I replace it.
Fortunately I knew it was coming so I just downloaded the Scryfall images of Alchemy rebalances I use and uploaded them to imgur.
So now you can just add back the usual Symmetry Sage, and then in the 'Image URL' field paste this -
Code:
https://imgur.com/Xm3lAJcAlternatively, here's the pretty version I use in paper (since my whole cube is borderless)
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Random thought that's been knocking around in my head for the past few months:
Old border cube is about the notes you don't play.
The pre-8ED card pool has about 6,000 cards in it. This is just not that many Magic cards when you get down to it. It's barely more cards than there are in Standard right now. You could read all of them in an afternoon with enough coffee and not enough responsibilities. And so many of the old border cards are completely unplayable dogshit. Like even if you're building very low power cube, half the cards just straight up don't do anything.
And so unless you're going out of your way to play mostly deep cuts and low power stuff, a lot of old border lists are going to look pretty similar at a glance. You're probably running Counterspell and Lightning Bolt and Psychatog and Wrath of God like all the other kids. But cube is about the little details, a difference of 20 cards in a list can completely change the way a cube plays.
And the old border card pool is full of miserable game ruining garbage, many of which have a tournament resume. You can load up on The Abyss and Stasis and Ensnaring Bridge and subject all of your friends to Land Tax+Ivory Tower control mirrors and ruin everybody's Saturday. You can include every rancid counterspell variant and have games that last for 30 hours. Or you can use a deft hand and a savvy curator's eye, cut the most boring iconic cards, and let people have a good-ass time casting Call of the Herd and Thieving Magpie.
Skip the lame-ass pentatonic licks and give 'em some fucking mixolydian!!
Old border cube is about the notes you don't play.
The pre-8ED card pool has about 6,000 cards in it. This is just not that many Magic cards when you get down to it. It's barely more cards than there are in Standard right now. You could read all of them in an afternoon with enough coffee and not enough responsibilities. And so many of the old border cards are completely unplayable dogshit. Like even if you're building very low power cube, half the cards just straight up don't do anything.
And so unless you're going out of your way to play mostly deep cuts and low power stuff, a lot of old border lists are going to look pretty similar at a glance. You're probably running Counterspell and Lightning Bolt and Psychatog and Wrath of God like all the other kids. But cube is about the little details, a difference of 20 cards in a list can completely change the way a cube plays.
And the old border card pool is full of miserable game ruining garbage, many of which have a tournament resume. You can load up on The Abyss and Stasis and Ensnaring Bridge and subject all of your friends to Land Tax+Ivory Tower control mirrors and ruin everybody's Saturday. You can include every rancid counterspell variant and have games that last for 30 hours. Or you can use a deft hand and a savvy curator's eye, cut the most boring iconic cards, and let people have a good-ass time casting Call of the Herd and Thieving Magpie.
Skip the lame-ass pentatonic licks and give 'em some fucking mixolydian!!
Yes but...they removed the cards from the database? It seems...quick and harsh. And I didn't see any announcements on Cube Cobra
I'll have to see how I replace it.
That's... disappointing. I'm no fan of Alchemy, but it's undeniable that it carved out its own little niche and it had a cult following. To just up and delete it all is schizophrenic. Corpos are all about "renting" to customers instead of selling these days, but Wizards just being able to reach into my collection and unmake a bunch of cards is concerning for all sorts of reasons. Where can we find the Scryfall zip file of Alchemy rebalances?
I curate an old border cube. A lot of old border players won't like this, but one of the ways I set out to differentiate my list was to specifically look for old frame treatments that could have been printed in old border sets. No batshit stuff like old border Primeval Titan or old border Consecrated Sphinx, more like old border Wire Surgeons and old border Darien, King of Kjeldor.
When I started looking, I found a lot more. Crystal Ball and Bottled Cloister fit right in beside Icy Manipulator and Zuran Orb. Noose Constrictor adds a second copy of Wild Mongrel for madness and graveyard strategies. Spellslinger gets a bump with Thermo-Alchemist. Academy decks get "fixed" cards like Sai, Master Thopterist and Hard Evidence. Tinker/Welder decks have a backup plan with Farid, Enterprising Scavengerand Feldon of the Third Path. Tinker itself is a lot less silly when the biggest targets are Ramos, Dragon Engine, Steel Hellkite and Scion of Draco. Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse unlocks a whole new archetype in Gx by turning cantrips into board state. If old border cycling cards weren't so awful, she'd make me want to toss in a few just by her lonesome. These are just some of the designs I've been exploring.
There was a whole continuum of sets in between 8th edition and Time Spiral block, before NWO and FIRE, before planeswalkers, where cards and sets were allowed to be low power. If you subtract all the broken but popular design mistakes like Skullclamp and Jitte, that's a time period ripe for old border treatment.
This kind of list also allows for cards that never had a chance to shine because they always existed alongside better versions of themselves. Adding them back into this kind of environment allows them to be recontextualized in a cube that could have been. Things like Equilibrium that let you play the tempo game. Brood of Cockroaches and Endless Cockroaches that now pair very well with new-to-old-border drain effects like Blood Artist or a card like Tormod, the Desecrator. Purgatory allows midrange players to grind all day. Well, not all day, because old border doesn't have a ton of playable lifegain cards. And I do love me some Tortured Existence, which does everything from dumping incarnations into the yard to enabling welder, reanimator and madness.
You had me with Bottled Cloister, but lost me with stuff like Farid and Ramos.
I do agree that there are some new old bordered cards worth a look, but it’s stuff like these
I’m not great at analyzing why these cards feel old bordered, except that they are simple and evocative. One mechanic that feels old to me and isn’t simple or elegant is dredge. Golgari Thug, Loam and Grave-Troll I could imagine being old bordered.
Disappointed that I can’t articulate why I feel a card belongs as an old bordered one, but some cards you listed feel “wrong” (and I’m sure my list will look off to others).
I do agree that there are some new old bordered cards worth a look, but it’s stuff like these
I’m not great at analyzing why these cards feel old bordered, except that they are simple and evocative. One mechanic that feels old to me and isn’t simple or elegant is dredge. Golgari Thug, Loam and Grave-Troll I could imagine being old bordered.
Disappointed that I can’t articulate why I feel a card belongs as an old bordered one, but some cards you listed feel “wrong” (and I’m sure my list will look off to others).
I think all of the mentioned cards are fine, except Farid. That is so above the line and I think I could explain why. First it's stats, red didn't get even a splashable 3/2 for 2R in old border times and this one is a 3/3 and has several upsides. It also has the weird commander mechanic goad the further disqualifies it. There's also menace, which did exist on a couple cards not keyworded, so I would be fine with that, if it was the only gripe.
I don't run any new-old-border cards in my list personally, partially because I think it's very hard to find that line where something "feels" old border and it's gonna be different for everyone (even if I trust my own taste more than anyone else's ) and partially because I think the fun in designing this kind of cube for me is trying to solve problems within a very limited restriction. When I dig deep in the pockets of 1998 and find the perfect solution it makes me feel like a genius. On an aesthetic level I also enjoy the idea of like, you could have built this cube in 2003 if only you had the thought technology and wherewithal to do so.
) and partially because I think the fun in designing this kind of cube for me is trying to solve problems within a very limited restriction. When I dig deep in the pockets of 1998 and find the perfect solution it makes me feel like a genius. On an aesthetic level I also enjoy the idea of like, you could have built this cube in 2003 if only you had the thought technology and wherewithal to do so.