CML's Cube (405, polychromatic)

CML

Contributor
Time for a big update!

I’m going up to 495 cards mainly as an experiment to see if we can increase diversity and replay value more than we attenuate existing archetypes and somewhat because I am way too lazy to try and cut things, especially in the midst of the release of several major sets. I’ll probably trim it down to 450 prior to the release of Khans but my feeling is these days there are so many new sweet Cube cards — maybe even cards designed with Cube in mind! — that bloating the size is worth a try, at least for now.

As for the funsies land draft, I liked it and a number of other players really liked it, while the other half hated it. I have detailed this and the result of my killing the ULD in another thread. It may come back at some point, but for now I’ve moved the best of these lands to the draft itself. To reiterate my position, I’m only a little annoyed by the extra drafting process and I don’t dislike it nearly as much as I like the better gameplay that arises from having a bunch of sweet lands in your deck, but I want to see if this works too.

The rest of the additions and cuts are pretty self-explanatory. Many of the cuts had the underlying philosophy, “There are no themes, just cards in your Cube.” Get at me if you love or hate any of these choices, and especially if you have suggestions.

Last thing: I’m trying this as a means of recording decks because I don’t want to waste more time than necessary on Cube. This is kind of disingenuous of me, because the whole point of MTG is to waste time, but, you know.

Delverless BUG (X-2)

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MGA (X-2)

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Smug Asian Man UR (X-2)

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Aether Searcher reanimator (X-0)

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as well as M15 cards



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CML

Contributor
big update that is kinda moving in a singletonish direction (obviously still a bunch of fetches and cantrips) -- however, it's getting to the point where there are enough little dudes running around i don't feel i have to strain any more for quality cheap beaters (said the guido).

now everyone go draft and rip me a new one
 

Rob Dennis

Developer
did a test draft on cubetutor this morning, and unfortunately the draft-matters cards being in, but not really functional made it hard for me to get a real sense. I'll take a look again this evening.

I will say that this list was one of the inspirations for the heavy-gold feel of charm cube and thanks for that :).
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
i will also chime in to say that with Jason mostly inactive on the cube front, i now regularly compare against CML's list whenever i make changes to my own cube, as kind of a sanity check
 

Rob Dennis

Developer
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/220087

P1P3 Academy after seeing P1P2 Bargain, and since I was playing standard during that time, I went for it. I was really, really sweating getting the lifegain, but pack 3 turned out fine. If canal dredger turns up a lot more random aggressive creatures I could easily see my deck go from control to aggro with the Rector backup plan. I'd like to cash in the Future Sight / Ash Zealout for a random 3 drop creature or maybe a dark ritual
 
Yeah I like his cube a lot but I sometimes remember I don't like all the lands and a couple of CMLs design choices but a lot of decks are represented and 2 and 3 colour decks are pretty draft able as far as I've seen from you guys and messing around online.

He's one of the only examples of running theme supporting multiples in a big cube.

Maybe it's me but the depth of multicolour in his list really points me at green or artifacts which is kinda interesting. I wonder how it drafts among veterans.
 

CML

Contributor
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/220087

P1P3 Academy after seeing P1P2 Bargain, and since I was playing standard during that time, I went for it. I was really, really sweating getting the lifegain, but pack 3 turned out fine. If canal dredger turns up a lot more random aggressive creatures I could easily see my deck go from control to aggro with the Rector backup plan. I'd like to cash in the Future Sight / Ash Zealout for a random 3 drop creature or maybe a dark ritual


completely magnificent deck. it's so delightful seeing what everyone comes up with. i would never draft this kind of deck in a million years and i'm sure even with my regular drafters it'd be vastly different even if it were a similar archetype. so sweet. now everyone keep drafting!

Yeah I like his cube a lot but I sometimes remember I don't like all the lands and a couple of CMLs design choices but a lot of decks are represented and 2 and 3 colour decks are pretty draft able as far as I've seen from you guys and messing around online.

He's one of the only examples of running theme supporting multiples in a big cube.

Maybe it's me but the depth of multicolour in his list really points me at green or artifacts which is kinda interesting. I wonder how it drafts among veterans.

me too i wish we'd cubed recently. soon!

i will also chime in to say that with Jason mostly inactive on the cube front, i now regularly compare against CML's list whenever i make changes to my own cube, as kind of a sanity check


aw shucks
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Eric: In a what not to do way, or otherwise? :p

I will say when scraping for black cards to add that weren't killspells or creatures, I did some looking here
 
Love most of these cuts.
Reckoner makes it into like a million decks in my experience though.

I also find there is like a lot of hands that include complicate that I love. I feel like it must be okay in your 3drop cube. Like passing turn 3 with a clique or instant draw in hand and a complicate is a great feeling. Doesn't really have to be turn 3 either.

I'm so on the fence with genesis. I think it needs a slower environment to flourish, and I think you have that, but big cubes are also notoriously bad at finding ways to put creatures into graveyards efficiently.

I think pack rat has a fine home in cube as an aggro black creature and as a defensive value graveyard staple. I have only really gotten annoyed with it when swords are plentiful or things like vault of the archangel or wolf run are in the land draft.
 

CML

Contributor
mimic vat is not a strong card. i wish it was ... i really think a lot of the "development" issues i have with cards like that could be fixed with a slight adjustment from chris T or anyone else in that excellent thread.

revisiting my list after cubing last night,

-worldknit is op and has gotta go. bummer, huh?
-we should probably revisit duergar hedge-mage after the smashing success of reclamation sage
-artifact theme, eh. probably not worth it for the intrinsic balance issues. by this i mean everyone wants batterskull and wurmcoil, but steel hellkite is kinda bad for everyone, if that makes sense
-cutting down on khans cards
-eidolon of blossoms and academy rector and friends are super sweet. enchantment theme works for the same reason artifact theme doesn't.
-imperial recruiter is the sweetest cube card
-trying zur again because i hate america

edits:

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Chris Taylor

Contributor
if worldknit is not busted in your list, that either means your cube power level isn't flat (or as flat as it could be, anyways) or that your cube is all about poison principle

I kinda disagree Eric. Even with a flatish power level there's still outliers and synergy you can use to overpower people. A lot can be done when you don't have to worry about color requirements. Also this might be different if wasteland is your land of choice rather than it's alternatives

And poison. What? how does a card that lets you draft anything become insane when poison forces your hand in the drafting process? Worldknit won't make your metalcraft/infect deck any better

CML: I think there are a lot of other reasons to cut worldknit (Absolutely destroys signaling, decks are unwieldy to operate, some asshole will inevitably draft koth and demand all 35 mountains etc) so I support your decision.
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
i worded that poorly, because it sounds like we're actually agreeing. what i was trying to get across is that worldknit should be very good in your list if

a) your power level is relatively flat - you're not running limited filler jank, nor are you running really overpowered stuff alongside questionable cards that are there just to fill out cycles
b) your list doesn't contain a whole lot of narrow, poison principle-y stuff, like affinity, dredge, or infect, all stuff which tends to gunks up a worldknit deck

most of the cubes on here actually fulfill both criteria, so it's no surprise when worldknit is busted bonkers good
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
i worded that poorly, because it sounds like we're actually agreeing. what i was trying to get across is that worldknit should be very good in your list if

a) your power level is relatively flat - you're not running limited filler jank, nor are you running really overpowered stuff alongside questionable cards that are there just to fill out cycles
b) your list doesn't contain a whole lot of narrow, poison principle-y stuff, like affinity, dredge, or infect, all stuff which tends to gunks up a worldknit deck

most of the cubes on here actually fulfill both criteria, so it's no surprise when worldknit is busted bonkers good

Yeah, I think I thought you were saying "If worldknit is good, you must be poison/spikey power level"
 

CML

Contributor
Welp guess I flattened the power level enough. One of our heroes picked Worldknit and followed it up with Canal Dredger so he got to play a sweet 90-card deck with a nice 1/5 defender for 1, then smashed us with Spiteful Returned and all the other dumb cards that I put in and go 15th and get taken out on the regular. Still, it's a bummer Worldknit isn't worth it, and I imagine it is overpowered in steep-power-level cubes too as you never get color-screwed. I don't think it means that "synergy is too weak" in a vacuum though that could be the case.

Anyone tried Disdainful Stroke and Negate yet? I kinda like those cards.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Welp guess I flattened the power level enough. One of our heroes picked Worldknit and followed it up with Canal Dredger so he got to play a sweet 90-card deck with a nice 1/5 defender for 1, then smashed us with Spiteful Returned and all the other dumb cards that I put in and go 15th and get taken out on the regular. Still, it's a bummer Worldknit isn't worth it, and I imagine it is overpowered in steep-power-level cubes too as you never get color-screwed. I don't think it means that "synergy is too weak" in a vacuum though that could be the case.

Anyone tried Disdainful Stroke and Negate yet? I kinda like those cards.

Disdainful Stroke sounds strong to me. I still prefer the universality and interactive behavior caused by cards like mana leak and force spike, but "Counter target spell you care about" is certainly strong. I don't think I've ever played a deck with a curve low enough to make it actually dead, and the places where it's mostly dead you should be boarding it out anyways, because any counterspell at all would be horrible (With the possible exception of Absorb)

Is negate worth it over spell pierce? I've never really had too much success with the restricted-target counters, inevitably needing them most against the wrong target, but I feel if we want a niche answer, it should at least be the one they don't expect.
Anyone can counter a spell for 2, who ever counters a spell with 1 mana up?
 
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